238 réponses à ce sujet

[didymos1120]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Cerberus's Crimes

Its not a crime if you are not beholden to any law to begin with.

I hate to go all dictionary, but you've left me no choice:

crime, n.

2. a. More generally: An evil or injurious act; an offence, a sin; esp. of a grave character.
    b. collective sing. Wrong-doing, sin.

3. Charge or accusation; matter of accusation.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Then if I accuse you of quoting me that is against my religion you therefore have committed a crime against me. If I use that definition.

[didymos1120]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Then if I accuse you of quoting me that is against my religion you therefore have committed a crime against me. If I use that definition.

I'm cool with that.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Then allow me to list of a series of Cerberus Crimes:



1) No on board Toilet Paper

2) No ELO playing out of the loud speaker

3) No Electric Wizard playing out of the loud speaker

4) The refusal to properly equip personel on board

5) The lack of appropriate dormatories for said personell

6) Lack of a loading bay for hazardous materials that I would find extremely useless yet have to have

7) The lack of Ministry playing over loud speakers

8) The inability to have custom paint jobs

9) The inability to have whatever I want played over loud speakers, play over loud speakers

10) The lack of reading material in computer

11) The inability to use said computer to play games

12) The inability to use said computer to play Monster Magnet and other music

13-1000) Etc

[Sajuro]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Sajuro wrote...


But seeing as you invoked Godwin's law.. bye bye Zulu see you in the next Cerberus thread.

I have a good idea what we could name it: "TIM is Space Hitler!!!"

Or "Who to ravish in TIM's chair after you kill him in ME3." Or "TIM eats kittens!"

[didymos1120]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

7) The lack of Ministry playing over loud speakers

That is indeed a most foul and heinous crime.  Maybe their worst.

[ReiSilver]

I made a little list. I didn't even use things from the books.




Cerberus plans and results



Plan: drop Thresher Maws onto colony and see what happens
Results: better than expected! Colony died from the attack, valuable data, Alliance team sent to investigate died,
captured the one survivor we found. Will make great guinea pig for venom injections



Plan: turn Thorian creeper into controllable slaves and shock troops
Results: Failure, once Thorian killed the creepers revolted, casts doubt on our control of them in the first place, Thorian may still have been in control the whole time. Cerberus agents suffered 98% fatality rate.
Who could have known?



Plan: Stop people investigating us
Result: Partial success, lured in group of soldiers with distress beacon which was planted with a Thresher Maw. However Admiral Kahoku still a problem



Plan: create our very own Rachni army
Results: succeeded in capturing a rachni but failed to gain control. Can throw pesky admirals to it though.
Results2: Rachni surprisingly did not eat Kahoku, will have to find other ways of disposing of Alliance
bodies.



Plan: mess with the Alliance
Results: Success, by hacking into Aliance training AI we killed a lot of young Alliance marines before Comander Shepard destroyed the AI



Plan: Create more powerful human biotics by experimenting on children
Results: partial success by killing a lot of kidnapped kids (we do the hard things no one else can) we were able to turn our most promising subject into a truly imposing killing machine. Unfortunately the subject escaped when the surviving children revolted and the plan had to be abandoned. Cerberus casualties high.
Who could have known?



Plan: bring Comander Shepard back to life
Results: Success. However an unstable researcher hacked into the mechs and attacked the base, Cerberus fatalities at 90%



Plan: study a dead Reaper ship we found
Results: failure, turns out staying on a Reaper for extended periods isn't such a good idea
Who could have known?



Plan: find a way to control Geth
Results: Failure: while using an autistic man did bring the geth under his control turns out suspending him naked alone in a room, forcing his eyes open, sticking tubes down his throat and shoving metal through his limbs caused him distress which caused him to use the geth to lash out.
Who could have known?


and before anyone pipes in with 'rogue cells!' they were still working under TiM and Cerberus, they are still his responcibility. Like I said before; criminal negligence, if he really cared about the atrocities his people commited he would take actions to make sure they didn't happen. That's why a boss can get sued for their employee doing something bad when they have enough knowldge that they could have prevented it.

Modifié par ReiSilver, 02 septembre 2010 - 04:15 .

[MisterDyslexo]

ReiSilver wrote...


Plan: mess with the Alliance
Results: Success, by hacking into Aliance training AI we killed a lot of young Alliance marines before Comander Shepard destroyed the AI

Where did it say that, just wondering

[ReiSilver]

MisterDyslexo wrote...

ReiSilver wrote...


Plan: mess with the Alliance
Results: Success, by hacking into Aliance training AI we killed a lot of young Alliance marines before Comander Shepard destroyed the AI

Where did it say that, just wondering

I believe EDI tells you after her blocks are lifted

[didymos1120]

ReiSilver wrote...
Plan: turn Thorian creeper into controllable slaves and shock troops
Results: Failure, once Thorian killed the creepers revolted, casts doubt on our control of them in the first place, Thorian may still have been in control the whole time. Cerberus agents suffered 98% fatality rate.
Who could have known?

That one wasn't actually Cerberus.  That was an ExoGeni facility.  Cerberus apparently just bribed some ExoGeni people on Feros for a few creeper samples, which you see when looking for Kahoku.  Undoubtedly, they would have gotten more as soon as they could, but the supply abruptly dried up for some reason....

[didymos1120]

ReiSilver wrote...
I believe EDI tells you after her blocks are lifted

I only remember that being mentioned if you pitch a fit about AI when first meeting EDI.

[MassEffect762]

Their only crime is that they cared too much. lol.

Modifié par MassEffect762, 02 septembre 2010 - 04:40 .

[Arijharn]

mosor wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

For the sake of being devils advocate:
While it was never confirmed, Cerberus did hijack element zero from a frigate
While it has never been confirmed, Cerberus is assumed to detonate mass effect engine's over populated area's (I can not remember however where I heard this, it's not in game but I have heard it somewhere... feel free to dismiss this as I can't provide proof).

And, if you want to spread the boundaries of what can be construed as terrorism (i.e., to other species) then look at the actions taken by a few in regards to the Migrant Fleet.

Not even arguing whetner Cerberus comitted these actions. I'm assuming they did. Just the terrorisim monniker. The perpose of terrorism is to terrorize, not make super soldiers. As for the mirgrant fleet incident, that's not really terrorism either. It was a retrieval operation, it wasn't a lets teach the quarians a lesson operation.

You don't think the Migrant Fleet would view Cerberus' actions as terrorism since they aren't a classical military? I will grant you perhaps the hijacking of the frigate though, that could be construed as 'simple' piracy.

[Arijharn]

Moiaussi wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

Reasons why the Citadel council aren't the good guys:

Completely academic. That is like saying Germany should have been cheered on in WWII because of various crimes and/or questionable acts of the British, French, Americans, or any other given nation at the time.

If the war ended differently you would bet that would have been the case, so in my opinion that's hardly 'academic.'

[Arijharn]

Indulge me then for a thought experiment; if it was Cerberus that developed and deployed the Genophage, would people still argue that it wasn't genocide, that it was less 'monstrous?' Or would it be more monstrous because it would be a Cerberus project and not the Council's?



I like Nightwriter; you're at least consistent XD

[lovgreno]

If Cerberus was the organisation behind the genophage it would still be a act of self defense. A desperate and drastic self defense but still the right thing to do now that we have the advantage of seeing things in hindsight.



However Cerbererus has never done such a thing. This topic is not about the Council races crimes (there are probably many and severe), it's about Cerberus crimes.

[didymos1120]

Arijharn wrote...
If the war ended differently you would bet that would have been the case, so in my opinion that's hardly 'academic.'

Uh, "If"s and "would have been"s are the very definition of 'academic' (well, one of the defintions, anyway). 

Modifié par didymos1120, 02 septembre 2010 - 12:17 .

[Arijharn]

didymos1120 wrote...

Arijharn wrote...
If the war ended differently you would bet that would have been the case, so in my opinion that's hardly 'academic.'

Uh, "If"s and "would have been"s are the very definition of 'academic' (well, one of the defintions, anyway). 

Let me rephrase then, it's hardly academic because those things did happen. He basically handwaved his responses on the basis that it's okay because of the result (the Council won), which is exactly what he has a problem with on Cerberus' actions.

Basically, he has put forward the opinion that the ends justify the means, which is what so many people (yourself included iirc) label as a negative trait with Cerberus. It's okay that the Krogan are being basically becoming extinct because in the view of the Council they got too big for their pants. It's okay that the Quarians risked annihiliation by their own creations because the Council decided to make the decision that it was in the best interests of the galactic community to not assist it's member states.

It is hardly academic in this case that the Krogan Rebellions, which started out by the Council's own need for nigh expendable shock troopers against the Rachni are in such dire straits now because of the Council's own action (or inactions). The Genophage after all, wasn't developed by the Turian's (at the time, not a member of the Council) and if the Turian's didn't deploy it (and you have to assume surely that by this time the Asari and the Salarians had worked out how this new race thought because they didn't seem to have much trouble working us out) then you would know for sure that the Salarian's would because it has been said that they don't believe in making threats as such rather than just going for it (they don't declare their intentions of war beforehand for example).

There is nothing academic about the atrocities the Council has committed, the evidence is plainly there...

Sure, Cerberus has a shady past to be sure (I'm pretty sure that everyone can admit that -- even Zulu), but lets be brutually honest here, which organisation doesn't? See, as far as I can see Nightwriter has been the only consistent person in refuting Cerberus, as she's the only one who seems to have said: "Cerberus sucks, but so too does everyone else."

[ReiSilver]

didymos1120 wrote...

ReiSilver wrote...
Plan: turn Thorian creeper into controllable slaves and shock troops
Results: Failure, once Thorian killed the creepers revolted, casts doubt on our control of them in the first place, Thorian may still have been in control the whole time. Cerberus agents suffered 98% fatality rate.
Who could have known?

That one wasn't actually Cerberus.  That was an ExoGeni facility.  Cerberus apparently just bribed some ExoGeni people on Feros for a few creeper samples, which you see when looking for Kahoku.  Undoubtedly, they would have gotten more as soon as they could, but the supply abruptly dried up for some reason....

I can't remember if it's in the games or books or if it was fan speculation but I did hear somewhere that ExoGeni was a front orginisation for Cerberus. Can anyone confirm/refute this?

[Arijharn]

lovgreno wrote...

If Cerberus was the organisation behind the genophage it would still be a act of self defense. A desperate and drastic self defense but still the right thing to do now that we have the advantage of seeing things in hindsight.

However Cerbererus has never done such a thing. This topic is not about the Council races crimes (there are probably many and severe), it's about Cerberus crimes.

I call shenanigans with your response, because every other one of your responses in regards to Cerberus has been that it's paramount to it being the devil incarnate.

The genophage adjusts 'viable fertility rates to pre-industrial levels.' You can't just ease your way out of this with such a cop out line of 'benefit of hindsight.' Put yourself into the situation that it's current, because every other Cerberus action basically is that we know of (maybe not ME1 events).

Otherwise, 'what if' in hindsight, Overlord did bring about the Geth into our control and allowed us to fight effectively against the Reapers/other threats? I digress though.

[Arijharn]

ReiSilver wrote...
I can't remember if it's in the games or books or if it was fan speculation but I did hear somewhere that ExoGeni was a front orginisation for Cerberus. Can anyone confirm/refute this?

As far as I know it's just fan speculation (I've put it forward before as well). Critically though, I think you should safely dismiss it if, for no other reason, than this:
If ExoGeni was a front corporation for Cerberus, why would ExoGeni risk sanctions through unethical experiments such as the Thorian or related to it, the 'purging' of Feros? To expand upon this then; if ExoGeni was a true front corporation, wouldn't it behoove itself to remove itself from suspicion by passing the buck off to Cerberus?

[Zulu_DFA]

ReiSilver wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

ReiSilver wrote...
Plan: turn Thorian creeper into controllable slaves and shock troops
Results: Failure, once Thorian killed the creepers revolted, casts doubt on our control of them in the first place, Thorian may still have been in control the whole time. Cerberus agents suffered 98% fatality rate.
Who could have known?

That one wasn't actually Cerberus.  That was an ExoGeni facility.  Cerberus apparently just bribed some ExoGeni people on Feros for a few creeper samples, which you see when looking for Kahoku.  Undoubtedly, they would have gotten more as soon as they could, but the supply abruptly dried up for some reason....

I can't remember if it's in the games or books or if it was fan speculation but I did hear somewhere that ExoGeni was a front orginisation for Cerberus. Can anyone confirm/refute this?

This is a pure fan speculation, and quite erroneous.

In ME2 there is a line of sidequests involving the Blue Suns capturing an ExoGeni archaeological dig site (after the ExoGeni team contacted them for security and logistical support). You have no alert about it from TIM or Cerberus Command.

Sure, Cerberus has some agents in such a big corp. On Feros, I bet it was that "freelancer" guy who asked you to fetch him some data from the ExoGeni main structure. And maybe ExoGeni top guys do their share of "charity" that keeps TIM in business, like many in the Alliance. But ExoGeni is not Cerberus' front, TIM does not control it.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 02 septembre 2010 - 01:20 .

[Asheer_Khan]

ExoGeni and cerberus cooperate between eachother on very close level.



On Feros in that hangar where is that pressure pomp which closes hangar doors (and cut off Geth ship claw), on the right wall (from entry point) very close to entrance is located terminal (high level of encryption but if you have 60% electronic and decryption skill or having Tali with you whit elevated those skills it's possible to hack him) where one of the ExoGeni scientists shared her concerns about ExoGeni - cerberus cooperation (including "purchasing" of creepers) (IF i will made my next run there i will take screenshot of this message).



I often wonders too who is this guy who wanted from me those data... but from now... i think i will not even started this sidequest... if he want so badly those data he can get them once Geth will be driven off the planet.

[mosor]

lovgreno wrote...

However Cerbererus has never done such a thing. This topic is not about the Council races crimes (there are probably many and severe), it's about Cerberus crimes.

Discussing Cerberus' crimes is beating a dead horse. There are at least 2 new topics a week on this discussion for the past 7 months. I find comparing Cerberus's crimes to Council crimes quite refreshing.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Sounds to me like everyone in the ME2 universe has dirty hands and skeletons in their closet.



/thread