60 réponses à ce sujet

[Tonytobinus]

Not that I'm crying out for help. I'm still practically blinded by my own enthusiasm for the mod I'm working on.  But this was something I was thinking about today while at work.  Considering the amount of time it takes to create a full adventure, it is just simple human nature to have doubts, lose interest, or (most notoriously in this particular endeavor) get distracted by a fresh new idea.  They are hurdles I think everyone faces at some point.

My question to you other builders out there is right there in the title: what is your trick, or method, or ritual, or whatever you want to call it for getting yourself pumped and ready to spend a couple hundred more hours in the toolset?  How do you get yourself to sit down in front of the computer on those days that you're feeling a little burnt out, but know you have time to make some serious progress?  And how do you convince yourself to stay on your current project when there's something new and exciting swimming around in your brain?  I'd love to see the perspective of the rest of you on this subject, and maybe just have this here as something motivational for any budding creator having a hard time finishing something.

I'll start.  First off, I keep a notebook handy at the computer at all times.  If I get a new idea, I write it down.  Or I doodle a map, a room, or a character, or whatever came to mind.  And then I put it aside.  This goes for if I'm modding, or playing a game, or writing a *leaves to jot something down*  Then I put the notebook away.  Out of mind, out of sight, and out of mind again.  All I gotta say, though, is that my grandchildren better carry on my work in fleshing out all the ideas in that book.

Staying enthused - I'm not sure how much I can speak to that yet.  As I said, I'm still in this "holy crap this is turning out SO GREAT everyone will love it and build large neon shrines in my honor once they play this!" kick.  I'm only about a month into creation, so I havent had much time to be worn down by the lack of return on my time investment.

[PJ156]

I'll start.  First off, I keep a notebook handy at the computer at all times.  If I get a new idea, I write it down.  Or I doodle a map, a room, or a character, or whatever came to mind.  And then I put it aside.  This goes for if I'm modding, or playing a game, or writing a *leaves to jot something down*  Then I put the notebook away.  Out of mind, out of sight, and out of mind again.  All I gotta say, though, is that my grandchildren better carry on my work in fleshing out all the ideas in that book.

I am the same, write it down then try to push it out if my mind. The same goes for nice to haves/improvements to the mod. Write them down, then when the mod is comeplete review and add the things that will realy improve the mod. That saves time and grinding away with seemingly no progress.

Staying enthused - I'm not sure how much I can speak to that yet.  As I said, I'm still in this "holy crap this is turning out SO GREAT everyone will love it and build large neon shrines in my honor once they play this!" kick.  I'm only about a month into creation,

Can be very hard at times. Looking at a blank green 20 x 20 map, knowing that this has to be a coastline or somesuch to give you maybe 20 mins of game play is always a very low point for me. I just plough in and before you know it it is starting to take shape, and the excitement of creating is back.

The community is very good for keeping you on track technically, it's not very good at giving you a hug though. Non technical threads where everyone tells each other what jolly good eggs they are and how wonderful thier work is are not common, but if you do post an idea or sceenie and someone says something nice that can be a huge boost to morale.

so I havent had much time to be worn down by the lack of return on my time investment.

I think you need to be sure what it is you want from this, Trinity has about 3000 downloads to date and 63 votes (in a little over 18 months) so about 2% of the downloads converts to a vote/comment (this is about the same as my mods) From what I can see the general figure for recent mods is around this though serene, misery stone and MGS are at around 10%. My point is; if like Wyrin, you are happy just to have this creation on your pc then fine, your boots are going to be filled. If it's the adulation of the community you are after, you may or may not get that. Just dedicating your evenings for 6 months or more (300 - 400 hours) to give something free to the communuity is not enough. It has to be good as well . So from an enthusiasm point of view don't focus on the adoration of the community for your kicks, the motivation to continue needs to be something from within or you may be dissapointed.

For me it is also a little addictive. That helps a lot ....

Party hats on ladies and gentlemen there's work to be done.

PJ

Modifié par PJ156, 31 août 2010 - 11:24 .

[dunniteowl]

Wow. Good question. I can stay enthused for ever and a day. I really don't have to have a reason to like what I'm doing. Then again, since I was pushing my dime (yes, dime) onto the backglass of the pinball machines at the local Bowling Alley (I think they were called Fairfield Lanes) in Napa, CA in the mid 60's, I knew gaming and playing games was going to be a big and important part of my life.

Now, the trick is staying focused and on task. This is probably my single hardest effort. Fortunately, the module ideas I have encompass a lot of ground when it comes to creating, so if I can't do handsprings for one aspect, I can always sort of switch over to some other aspect of it.

I, too, keep a notebook handy -- several in fact -- pretty much at all times. It is not uncommon to spot me at a restaurant, the movie theater, a doctor's office or a waiting area with a note book in my hands or on my lap with me furiously pouring out another series of ideas onto the paper.

I find it's also good at times to just let that distraction be what it is -- a break from feeling like it's too much work. I still engage fairly often in a bit of Panzer General, Civ III and the occasional bout of Pool of Radiance (SSI, 1987) with the more or less uncommon walk over to Mechwarrior 2 or 3 to get my blood going.

I find that these games, so unlike NWN/2, allow me to step away, mentally, from issues that are bugging me. Then, suddenly, I get an answer to a problem or a new idea just pops into my head right in the middle of firing my 4 Extended Range Clan Pulse Lasers on my Vulture, happily sawing off a leg from that Assault class mech towering over me, but too damn slow to catch me in my circle of death dance around it.

Good times.

I don't know how many hours I have spent in the toolset for my latest venture. Unfortunately *(to some degree) I have had to start over completely 3 times now. I had a hard drive crash and hadn't backed up my files the first time, the second time, for some unknown reason, my files were just GONE. No idea what happened. Nowhere on the hard drive (oh yeah, and I hadn't backed them up that time either -- you'd think I'd get more paranoid or something...)

Each time I slip back into the groove of the toolset, I find that things go smoother, faster and my terrains look a bit better each time, so starting over, while somewhat discouraging, has become, for me, just another opportunity to get some more practice in.

I guess that's how I do it.

Sometime in the forseeable future, I hope to release:

A Short Trip: A Little Adventure.

A campaign length adventure for your party just when all they thought they were after was some R&R. It's the little things in life that can complicate your day.



best regards,

dunniteowl

[Banshe]

For me, the hardest part is staying focused. But I learned my lesson in NWN1. I built a cool city, then started on the lands outside the gates. I wanted a Dry River bed and none was available. So I started to get into CC. Then I found I needed a lot more CC for numerous things I wanted to have. Then I realized that, as the world was still download-phobic and the CEP had come out, that the community needed the CTP. So I got into that. Then NWN2 came out.



So this time, I'm consciously focusing on not getting too far away from creating my adventure.

[diophant]

PJ156 wrote...

Can be very hard at times. Looking at a blank green 20 x 20 map, knowing that this has to be a coastline or somesuch to give you maybe 20 mins of game play is always a very low point for me. I just plough in and before you know it it is starting to take shape, and the excitement of creating is back.

This is wrong math, at least in terms of staying motivated;) It's 20 min * 1000 downloads = 20000 minutes of fun!

[PJ156]

diophant wrote...

This is wrong math, at least in terms of staying motivated;) It's 20 min * 1000 downloads = 20000 minutes of fun!

That's good maths I shall remember that nedd time I face a green screen.

PJ

[The Fred]

Personally, I don't really stay motivated at all, which is why I tend to flit between projects regularly, always moving onto something new and exciting (but sadly leaving the previous job languishing in a nearly-but-not-quite-completed state).



I also tend to have phases - I might leave this game and not do anything with it at all for weeks or more (more recently days rather than months, but it varies) while doing something else, then return.

[Tonytobinus]

Honestly, Fred, I think leaving the game to do something else entirely is one of the most beneficial things you can do. Not just to avoid burnout, but to be exposed to fresh ideas. I finished Dragon Age and leapt right back into the NWN toolset with a much sharper focus on crafting each hack-n-slash encounter with a focus on strategy, and purpose in their surroundings (as opposed to a group just standing around waiting to fight the player).

[kamalpoe]

Forget it's going to be a couple hundred/thousand more hours. Set limited goals: For an exterior set maybe a week of evenings. First day my goal is height elevation and basic texturing. Second evening is prominent placeables. Third, finish the texturing, fourth small placeables, fifth npcs/sounds/vfx. Small goals give you a sense you've done something. You'll probably be faster than these goals, especially the first few days, so you'll have a sense of accomplishment.

Do the big stuff first. Take advantage of the Pareto Principle (the 80/20 rule) to get things mostly running and mostly working the way you want. After the first two days above you've got an area that mostly looks right even if it's lacking in detail. You get a mental boost because there's something there you can see.

If you don't want to work in a particular area, don't. Tired of writing conversation and want to do some scripting? Then do scripting. If you're tired of working on some bit, it's going to be slow going, and it's going to show. If you don't want to work on it at all, then don't. It's only a game and you don't owe it to anyone to make a mod (if you decide to quit completely, then please do post what you've done somewhere so others can take advantage of it).

Get it done and running, then go back and get it polished. The polishing bit is quite enjoyable for me, as I get to add all the little details I want to see in there. Once you are sitting on it in a "done" state, it gets much more enjoyable.
Make a progress chart. I think wyrin posted one for his WPM. Then you get to check things off as they are completed == mental boost.
Finally, I recommend summoning a succubus or incubus (as appropriate) with a whip.  Nothing motivates like a good sharp crack of the whip.

Modifié par kamalpoe, 31 août 2010 - 02:15 .

[c i p h e r]

Or just buy your wife/girlfriend a whip to beat you with. That'll do nicely. Especially for that mouthy owl.

Now...get back to work, you whiny little pissants! "OOoohh, I'm bored. Woe is me."... Boo-hoo! Learn to love pain and you won't be complaining!!







Ok, just kidding. Posted for sh*ts and g*ggles. How's that for motivational?

[Tonytobinus]

Summoning a succubus wouldnt help get work done. If anything, I can see the opposite happening. Plus, I'd have a lot to explain to my wife. No, no... this won't do at all. Anyone need chalk for their summoning circle? I won't be using it after all.

Now...get back to work, you whiny little pissants! "OOoohh, I'm bored. Woe is me."... Boo-hoo! Learn to love pain and you won't be complaining!!

I can definitely see putting that on a poster. It'll have a kitten dangling from a tree... over a pit of hellhounds.

[Morbane]

Motivation is in part founded in perception - our part in it rests on what more than a few have touched on; what will you get out of building? For me, I have always wanted to make a game - did 2 years in IT to try the college try - love pain? try data structures and algorithms - he he



Anyway, my motivation is inspiration - when it comes - my muse is a fickle fancy and she isn't beguiled by the hopeful praise or 'glory'. I just finished re-writing all of the scripts in my Tomb of Horrors - well almost - there were things going all over the place - but my muse said it would be better if I did it, so I am doing it. Makes for some improvement and thus more inspiration. If I stick to it, it shouldn't be very long - perhaps xmas.



So what indeed guides our perception? Does anyone know? Can't be sure until you're doing it...

[Morbane]

just a peek at a yr2 c++ file:
http://pastebin.com/L7bPdPx7

Wish I could remember all that meant lol

Modifié par Morbane, 31 août 2010 - 05:50 .

[The Fred]

Ironically, just a short while after reading this I opened up the toolset and got hit by suddenly not knowing what to do in it, followed by a wave of boredom combined with not feeling like doing anything. So, I ended up making Hopping Vampires instead - if only there was a tattered robe model and a hopping vampire walk animation...



I really don't feel like programming right now either, it truly is painful (like scripting, but with pain), but I've gone and started myself a project in C, of all things!



Still, I find comfort eating and tea help, amongst other things.

[PJ156]

The Fred wrote...

Still, I find comfort eating and tea help, amongst other things.

Bacon butties and beer helps me to crack on, however I am not sure they improve output. Particularly the latter.

I am not from the taking a break camp, though I can understand how LM might feel after six years. I find if I play other games it's very hard to come back to this. So I stick with it pretty much without distraction. I find the posts about scripting and code interesting. I have an engineering degree but not C background at all (none that I remember anyway), I am stead fastly against learning how to. Nothing demotivates me more than having to learn a new skill in order to progress my mod. I just want to progress and if I can't, I work round it.

I learn new stuff in the day job. This is supposed to be my hobby and, by definition, fun. So I do the bits that are fun and deal with, but don't labour over, other issues as they come up. This is pretty limiting in terms of what I can turn out but so be it. People seem to like what I have posted to date and that's good enough for me. 

PJ

[LeeMer47]

I just quit when I am tired and play games/watch DVDs. Lately I've been playing Allied General as the British and just finished Spelljammer: Pirates of Realmspace. That was definitely badly programmed. I intend on watching the complete James Bond movies in order (including the David Niven Casino Royale) as another reelease. After six years I get tired more frequently.



I also got a C++ program for DOS for $60 just after Windows came out. Used it to make some text adventures that were never completed. I might go back and finish one. What's 16 years to get a project completed?



I wouldn't worry about getting it done quickly. NWN2 is the best visually D&D friendly toolset. It'll be awhile before it gets dated. I'll probably still be using it in 10 years.



As far as having lots of ideas: I have one giant role-playing project I am working on in NWN1 and will likely convert to NWN2. When it gets tiresome I make smaller role-playing or larger hack and slash modules as breaks. Then I go back to my main project. Keep the text minimalist on this side projects when you need to do something else. And try to combine several of your ideas into one module.

[Kaldor Silverwand]

Chaos Wielder wrote...
Luckily, those of us with philosophy degrees have moved beyond such things. 

Perhaps not all of us.

I find buying and reading one of the shiny new D&D manuals, or thumbing through one of my 20 year old not-quite-so-shiny ones to stimulate my desire (need?) to create cool stuff. Then I try to figure out how to include it in what I am trying to do.

Regards

Modifié par Kaldor Silverwand, 01 septembre 2010 - 04:16 .

[The Fred]

Yeah, I find coming up with some new idea, like finding a D&D monster I'd like to build and having to deal with the challenges of implementing it, motivating - however, I'm trying not to fall too far into that trap this time, since I remember my NWN1 mod in which I had made a variety of areas and a host of cool monsters (a nearly-finished self-scripted Rust Monster, a not-so-finished Nishruu, the Unusang, the Roper, vampires with coffins, loads of unique assassin-like enemies, Frostwind Virago, the Shadar-kai and many more), but no real story to link those areas together and few good places to put those monsters in.

This time, I'm trying to make myself lay down all the groundwork first, and then build loads of areas and things afterwards (a little easier since NWN2 area-building is some much harder, imo), but it's definately more difficult.

[Morbane]

Yep, Kaldor - I agree, those D&D tomes serve to inspire greatly imo. About a year ago I found a link to some coveted pdfs. I have a huge range of 3.5 tomes now (unfortunately the link is DEAD now). Flipping through those has been a great boon in building ToH.

[dunniteowl]

Oh yeah, manuals. All the First AD&D stuff, most of the 2nd AD&D stuff *(not counting the muck known as "The Complete" series) and I totally skipped over 3.0 and have the 3.5 essentials. I use those to peruse and get ideas (though these days it's mostly about how to convert them over.) For true and deep inspiration I use the dozens (*more maybe) of notebooks I have filled with adventure ideas, campaigns and designed PnP modules from my own gameworld that I've been working on since 1981. So there's a lot of stuff there. And I haven't even really gotten over to the areas where the Oriental Adventures Manual might have come in handy. And then there's the lower Southern Continental area that I don't even have a name for yet and it's full of dinosaurs and lost civilizations stuff. I'm just wondering if I can get away with adding some Sleestaks?

dunniteowl

(inspiration is never an issue, it's more one of focus and determination to complete for me.)

[Shaughn78]

Keeping motivated can definately be a task, hence the year 3 development time for Risen Hero.



I have found creating bench marks and not allowing myself to go beyond them helps. I try to work on 1 area at a time. Create it, populate it, write conversations and scripts. Getting it to be being nearly polished off then move on. I threw this approach out on the 3rd out of 4 modules. It was one of the shorter modules but it took twice as long to complete. Lots of chasing down loose ends, discovering unfinished parts and all the stuff you don't want to do piled up (conversations for me). Instead of having to create 1 area at a time of conversations, I had to sit back and create an entire module's worth of conversations. By the end I have developed a profound hatred for the campaign editor.



Having a loose out outline helped me as well. It allowed for experimentation and working in those different ideas you get along the way. When I started I had a start point and an end point. Looking back this may have been a little too loose but it worked for me. Lots of times I found myself just creating blueprints, items, weapons, creatures, scripting special attacks and behavior. My campaign folder is filled with all sorts of stuff that I have yet to use, but should I need it I have it. It keeps you in the toolset while imporivng your skills and giving you a break from the main project.



I have also found that posting on a blog and the forums helps. By creating updates, questions, issues and toolset confusion you get feed back and encouragement from the community. This propbably the best form motivation.



I do also agree with PJ156 that a nice IPA while sitting at the toolset during a night session is always good.

[The Fred]

dunniteowl wrote...

And then there's the lower Southern Continental area that I don't even have a name for yet and it's full of dinosaurs and lost civilizations stuff.

Kinda like an Aztec-esq, Maztica-like setting? You used to be able to get the oooold Maztica (and other) stuff here, but the link seems to be broken.