Firearms and Cannons would ruin the game for me. I will live with the Qunari having some sort of cannon-like technology but that's as far as it should be taken in the Dragon Age Universe.
Idea: Guns (or Cannons) in DA 2 / DA2 DLC ?
Débuté par
Merlin Dawnweaver
, août 31 2010 03:16
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#102
Posté 31 août 2010 - 11:40
Captain Sassy Pants
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Add guns, and I won't buy it. Simple as that.
Oh, I guess I should be a jackass about it. I can't stand idiots who don't think guns ruin fantasy.
Oh, I guess I should be a jackass about it. I can't stand idiots who don't think guns ruin fantasy.
#103
Posté 31 août 2010 - 11:43
Merlin Dawnweaver
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Yes, everyone who disagree with you is automatically an idiot. that is why humans are such enlightened creatures. Back up what you say or don't say it at all.
As I said, it could be come in a DLC, and you can forget it ever existed if you don't want it.
As I said, it could be come in a DLC, and you can forget it ever existed if you don't want it.
#104
Posté 31 août 2010 - 11:51
Brockololly
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I wouldn't mind seeing the Qunari cannons but having guns and firearms in the game? Oh yes, lets just add a cover based 3rd person shooter element to "amp up" the combat even more while we're at it....ugh.
#105
Posté 31 août 2010 - 11:58
Russalka
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Disagreeing with an idea doesn't make the idea idiotic.
Anyway, don't you think it is a bit early for Ferelden to go steampunk though? :/
Anyway, don't you think it is a bit early for Ferelden to go steampunk though? :/
#106
Posté 01 septembre 2010 - 12:00
Merlin Dawnweaver
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it was discussed previously in this thread that dark fantasy and guns can coexist. It's just that guns does not appear to be associated with fantasy by everyone, so I suggested it to be a DLC.
#107
Posté 01 septembre 2010 - 12:05
addiction21
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Russalka wrote...
Disagreeing with an idea doesn't make the idea idiotic.
Anyway, don't you think it is a bit early for Ferelden to go steampunk though? :/
Maybe Ferelden but then Ferelden is a tiny corner of the world. Who knows what else is out across those vast oceans. I am hoping for The fabled waffle paradise.
#108
Posté 01 septembre 2010 - 12:09
Merlin Dawnweaver
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Something always strike me as odd, The same people who don't want guns in fantasy games never seem to mind plate armor size of small automobiles. It's pretty common knowledge those things weren't medieval.
Oh by the way - Greatswords, or Zweihänders, were 16 century weapons designed to defeat pikemen.
Odd that these things are okay in fantasy while firearms are not.
Oh by the way - Greatswords, or Zweihänders, were 16 century weapons designed to defeat pikemen.
Odd that these things are okay in fantasy while firearms are not.
Modifié par Merlin Dawnweaver, 01 septembre 2010 - 12:15 .
#109
Posté 01 septembre 2010 - 12:12
MoSa09
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Probably already said before in this thread, sounds way too much like Fable. No thanks.
And besides, this would certainly add alot of fuel to the fire of the claimes Dragon Age just becomes another Mass Effect.
And besides, this would certainly add alot of fuel to the fire of the claimes Dragon Age just becomes another Mass Effect.
Modifié par MoSa09, 01 septembre 2010 - 12:12 .
#110
Posté 01 septembre 2010 - 12:16
M8DMAN
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I wouldn't mind seeing a few matchlock guns here in there. I mean the Qunari allready have cannons who's to say they havent tried making musket's?
I would love to see dwarfs using Arquebus's.
I would love to see dwarfs using Arquebus's.
#111
Posté 01 septembre 2010 - 12:17
KhorinShizucor
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Something like these would fit in a fantasy setting, imo:
These stills come from Princess Mononoke. Funny, I found these on a forum discussing adding dynamic and physics to include firearms for NWN2 modules.
At first, I didn't like the idea of having firearms in a fantasy game because I don't care much for FPS games. However, the more I thought about it, the more I realized that firearms != FPS. With regards to Dragon Age, firearms should either be included in a DLC or later in the timeline of DA. I don't know how long EA and Bioware are going to keep this franchise going but firearms could be something to consider for the future.
In short, I couldn't care less if there are firearms in fantasy games. I usually don't use ranged weapons anyway!
These stills come from Princess Mononoke. Funny, I found these on a forum discussing adding dynamic and physics to include firearms for NWN2 modules.
At first, I didn't like the idea of having firearms in a fantasy game because I don't care much for FPS games. However, the more I thought about it, the more I realized that firearms != FPS. With regards to Dragon Age, firearms should either be included in a DLC or later in the timeline of DA. I don't know how long EA and Bioware are going to keep this franchise going but firearms could be something to consider for the future.
In short, I couldn't care less if there are firearms in fantasy games. I usually don't use ranged weapons anyway!
Modifié par KhorinShizucor, 01 septembre 2010 - 12:19 .
#112
Guest_Capt. Obvious_*
Posté 01 septembre 2010 - 12:27
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Guns were weak and pathetic back then so it shouldn't be a problem.
#114
Posté 01 septembre 2010 - 12:31
KhorinShizucor
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Then I asked myself, "Why use them at all?"
I figured that guns in a fantasy setting would have very low accuracy but with high chances of critical hits. The devs have to give us a reason to use guns in the first place.
I figured that guns in a fantasy setting would have very low accuracy but with high chances of critical hits. The devs have to give us a reason to use guns in the first place.
Modifié par KhorinShizucor, 01 septembre 2010 - 12:31 .
#115
Posté 01 septembre 2010 - 12:32
lv12medic
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Ahh... the good old days. Who needs eye protection?KhorinShizucor wrote...
*snip*
*snip*
#116
Posté 01 septembre 2010 - 12:32
Merlin Dawnweaver
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They'd have large front load damage, so melee characters could shoot once before charging if they prefer. I have discussed that in the first post.
#117
Posté 01 septembre 2010 - 12:43
Ryngard
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No. Just no. I don't want guns in my fantasy. Nope. Nada. Keep em away.
#118
Posté 01 septembre 2010 - 12:51
Ryngard
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Merlin Dawnweaver wrote...
Something always strike me as odd, The same people who don't want guns in fantasy games never seem to mind plate armor size of small automobiles. It's pretty common knowledge those things weren't medieval.
Oh by the way - Greatswords, or Zweihänders, were 16 century weapons designed to defeat pikemen.
Odd that these things are okay in fantasy while firearms are not.
Because guns don't fit the feel. Guns ruined warfare. Guns suck. Guns make the setting feel more modern, when we want more of a past feel. Guns = bad.
Oh and two handed swords appeared much earlier. The Indians had the Khanda in 300 CE and some Japanese 2h versions of the katana were seen in the 12th century. Just saying, the precedent isn't that far off.
#119
Posté 01 septembre 2010 - 01:18
Merlin Dawnweaver
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So basically you are saying that you don't like guns because you don't feel like liking guns. It's good to know that feelings passes for justification these days.
So most definitely, we now know that some people don't like guns. It's good to learn the obvious. Let's move onto those who does.
So most definitely, we now know that some people don't like guns. It's good to learn the obvious. Let's move onto those who does.
Modifié par Merlin Dawnweaver, 01 septembre 2010 - 01:21 .
#120
Posté 01 septembre 2010 - 01:46
Lord_Valandil
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Too modern for my taste. If I want guns, I'll go play MW2. Just saying.
#121
Guest_Capt. Obvious_*
Posté 01 septembre 2010 - 01:50
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KhorinShizucor wrote...
Then I asked myself, "Why use them at all?"
I figured that guns in a fantasy setting would have very low accuracy but with high chances of critical hits. The devs have to give us a reason to use guns in the first place.
Why not just use them for show? The devs at BioWare said that the Qunari love efficiency and it could just show that they're finding more efficient ways of taking down their enemies. And maybe it doesn't have to be used as a primary weapon?
#122
Guest_Capt. Obvious_*
Posté 01 septembre 2010 - 02:03
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Ryngard wrote...
Merlin Dawnweaver wrote...
Something always strike me as odd, The same people who don't want guns in fantasy games never seem to mind plate armor size of small automobiles. It's pretty common knowledge those things weren't medieval.
Oh by the way - Greatswords, or Zweihänders, were 16 century weapons designed to defeat pikemen.
Odd that these things are okay in fantasy while firearms are not.
Because guns don't fit the feel. Guns ruined warfare. Guns suck. Guns make the setting feel more modern, when we want more of a past feel. Guns = bad.
Oh and two handed swords appeared much earlier. The Indians had the Khanda in 300 CE and some Japanese 2h versions of the katana were seen in the 12th century. Just saying, the precedent isn't that far off.
Guns were used in the Middle Ages. Guns have technically been here for more than 800 years. There is a past feel to them. They weren't always used. They were only used in the right sort of situations. They could only fire one bullet. Plus, most looked like sticks back then. They were nothing like the ones we have now. They are nothing like the ones we see in Arcanum(spelling?). The Ottomans couldn't always use gunpowder to their advantage. It was a matter of when and how to use. Again, it required skillful planning; it didn't just f@ck up warfare(on the contrary). Also, about the technology of Thedas: it doesn't have to be stuck. I mean, there's a codex somewhere in the game that said that Orlais was going through some "renaissaince". It really depends what you mean by "modern".
It's not like we're suddenly going to start seeing people pull rifles out of their asses. Close-ranged weapons will still be there.
#123
Posté 01 septembre 2010 - 02:16
Merlin Dawnweaver
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Guns are not any more modern then plate armor or fire traps.
a Fire trap is essentially a Fougasse, a weapon developed in the 16th century in our world.
Let's also not forget that steel wasn't widely available until the Bessemer process
Not all guns were rifled weapons firing metal cartridges. For some reason, every time guns are mentioned somewhere, people think of assault rifles.
a Fire trap is essentially a Fougasse, a weapon developed in the 16th century in our world.
Let's also not forget that steel wasn't widely available until the Bessemer process
Not all guns were rifled weapons firing metal cartridges. For some reason, every time guns are mentioned somewhere, people think of assault rifles.
Modifié par Merlin Dawnweaver, 01 septembre 2010 - 03:02 .
#124
Posté 01 septembre 2010 - 03:14
gotthammer
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Merlin Dawnweaver wrote...
Not all guns were rifled weapons firing metal cartridges. For some reason, every time guns are mentioned somewhere, people think of assault rifles.
lol, yeah. esp. that comment about MW2 (which I still haven't played. I'm standing by my: no dedicated servers, no buy stance).
I won't mind an FN P90, Magpull PDR, a FAMAS w/ the FELIN upgrades or any of the guns my Shepard has stored on the Normandy, tho'
.as i said earlier: arquebuses, or muskets and corresponding pistols would be nice. shooting once before melee would be enough, IMHO (and maybe see them used for melee, too, if the character using the firearm is ranged spec, I guess).
it's not as if we're asking for one-shot-kill weapons , either (you have spells and spell combos for that
)...if anything, I'd like to see firearms 'just for flavor'. 
How does this look 'modern'? lol (something like this would be nice, but, perhaps, a bit more 'ornate', owing to the setting being fantasy):
Modifié par gotthammer, 01 septembre 2010 - 03:15 .
#125
Posté 01 septembre 2010 - 03:30
addiction21
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quote]Merlin Dawnweaver wrote...
Guns are not any more modern then plate armor or fire traps.
a Fire trap is essentially a Fougasse, a weapon developed in the 16th century in our world.
Let's also not forget that steel wasn't wildly available until the Bessemer process
Not all guns were rifled weapons firing metal cartridges. For some reason, every time guns are mentioned somewhere, people think of assault rifles.
[/quote]
And you can go back almost a thousand years to find the first refrences of "gunpowder" and its use in a military method in china. 800 years or so in the middle east. Like much of our own history it has been lost over time and the experts still debate when and where but it was a very very long time ago.
As far as the Quinari are concerned all we know about them is the "tip of the spear" so to speak. Why would a race that clearly favors technological advancment just stop. Especially when it is clear they do not trust magic.
As far as the whole "plate armor makes guns useless" that is just bs in my personal opinion. There is a very good reason as to why hammers and maces were a popular weapon to use against heavily armored opponents. It is called blunt forced trauma. You do not need to pierce that armor to cause significant damage to the individual under it and doing that from a range alwats trumps having to close into melee range to do it. Even if it does not stop the massive armor wearer it will take away his ability to fight at 100%.
Many seem to equate the Thedas we now as Medievil Europe and they would be right. What many seem to forget is the Europe was not the only civilazation in the world at that time and those in Asia had been playing with explosives for a long time before it ever made its way so far west.
That brings me to the point that we dont know jack about the world aside from this little area we have been introduced to.
Here is a map of the terriotory we have been introduced to http://dragonage.wik...e:ThedasMap.jpg
Land to the north, north west, west, south and whatever is over the ocean to the east are all unexplored to us.
Final Thought:
Whats out there? We do not know and it is whatever the creators at BioWare decide. Bottom line it is what they decide and how it is implemented into the world that matters. There is as much evidance that more advanced technology that what has been introduced to us exists in the DA world.
It was many hundreds of years before the advent if rifling (before the 18th centuary they were called smooth bores) and it was late into the 19th centuary for individual cartridges and semiautomatic types of firearms became prevalent. Automatic single man portable weapons are nearing their 100th birthday. Many of these innovations can be followed back to the discovery of steam power where many of these innovations were made possible due to the mass production capability of steam power. Which is again a short jump of innovation.
As far as the game implementation I would prefer it being a ranged typed skill then hadning it out to melee characters.
Guns are not any more modern then plate armor or fire traps.
a Fire trap is essentially a Fougasse, a weapon developed in the 16th century in our world.
Let's also not forget that steel wasn't wildly available until the Bessemer process
Not all guns were rifled weapons firing metal cartridges. For some reason, every time guns are mentioned somewhere, people think of assault rifles.
[/quote]
And you can go back almost a thousand years to find the first refrences of "gunpowder" and its use in a military method in china. 800 years or so in the middle east. Like much of our own history it has been lost over time and the experts still debate when and where but it was a very very long time ago.
As far as the Quinari are concerned all we know about them is the "tip of the spear" so to speak. Why would a race that clearly favors technological advancment just stop. Especially when it is clear they do not trust magic.
As far as the whole "plate armor makes guns useless" that is just bs in my personal opinion. There is a very good reason as to why hammers and maces were a popular weapon to use against heavily armored opponents. It is called blunt forced trauma. You do not need to pierce that armor to cause significant damage to the individual under it and doing that from a range alwats trumps having to close into melee range to do it. Even if it does not stop the massive armor wearer it will take away his ability to fight at 100%.
Many seem to equate the Thedas we now as Medievil Europe and they would be right. What many seem to forget is the Europe was not the only civilazation in the world at that time and those in Asia had been playing with explosives for a long time before it ever made its way so far west.
That brings me to the point that we dont know jack about the world aside from this little area we have been introduced to.
Here is a map of the terriotory we have been introduced to http://dragonage.wik...e:ThedasMap.jpg
Land to the north, north west, west, south and whatever is over the ocean to the east are all unexplored to us.
Final Thought:
Whats out there? We do not know and it is whatever the creators at BioWare decide. Bottom line it is what they decide and how it is implemented into the world that matters. There is as much evidance that more advanced technology that what has been introduced to us exists in the DA world.
It was many hundreds of years before the advent if rifling (before the 18th centuary they were called smooth bores) and it was late into the 19th centuary for individual cartridges and semiautomatic types of firearms became prevalent. Automatic single man portable weapons are nearing their 100th birthday. Many of these innovations can be followed back to the discovery of steam power where many of these innovations were made possible due to the mass production capability of steam power. Which is again a short jump of innovation.
As far as the game implementation I would prefer it being a ranged typed skill then hadning it out to melee characters.
