215 réponses à ce sujet

[Mabjestic]

Firing a shot to throw your enemy off balance and following with a dagger to the gut would go toward making the said rogue that much more fun too.

[nhsk]

Capt. Obvious wrote...

The renaissance was as much as a time for advancements in technology as it was for culture and learning. And firearms were becoming common during the later years of that period.

Do you speak English?

Or can't you comprehend?

Try looking up what the word means and try to look away from the european renaissance... A renaissance doesn't mean The european Renaissance which is commonly associated to the period of 14th to 17th century Europe.

Modifié par nhsk, 01 septembre 2010 - 09:34 .

[thenutty1]

Fundamentally, guns are a horrible idea in Thedas. The OP and others seem to have the idea that "firearms=progressive in fantasy," yet it is one of the first things that throws me out of a game marketed as such.



The simple fact is that there is no real need for guns in societies that have mages; although there are relatively few mages, they are an invaluable resource. The Qunari invented cannons because they keep mages under such strict restrictions. Therefore, they had a specific need that the cannons met. They essentially took the place of more reliable magic-users.



Not to mention that the OP pointed out that any peasant could use a gun with relatively minimal time and effort. It takes skill and years of training to properly master swords, shields, daggers, longbows, and crossbows--yet that is what makes them seem so attractive to people who prefer more traditional fantasy.



Although Dragon Age has parallels to human history, I deeply hope this tradition does not continue in the form of giving the playable characters firearms. Whenever there is a fantasy game with guns, I notice that most of the players go for the shiny, "different" weaponry rather than the traditional. It frustrates me, as guns are starting to become standard for fantasy games. Is it too much to ask for the Dragon Age franchise to be firearm-free unless it concerns the Qunari cannons?

[Mabjestic]

nhsk wrote...
Try looking up what the word means and try to look away from the european renaissance... A renaissance doesn't mean The european Renaissance which is commonly associated to the period of 14th to 17th century Europe.

Keeping in mind that Orlais is inspired from the real world France or Normandy, their renaissance might very well resemble The Renaissance in many ways. Atleast a cultural upheaval should open more doors than it closes.

thenutty1 wrote...
The simple fact is
that there is no real need for guns in societies that have mages; although there are relatively few mages, they are an invaluable resource. The Qunari invented cannons because they keep mages under such strict restrictions. Therefore, they had a specific need that the cannons met. They essentially took the place of more reliable magic-users.

Yet there seems to be a need for archers, soldiers, ballistae (and assumingly siege weapons), as well as recruitment efforts in times of war. The ease of use and cost-effectiveness makes firearms a logical step in a world with cannons and explosives, but doesn't invalidate the usefulness of a skilled longbowman. I don't think anyone wants to take away swords or bows, but adding firearms to the mix might add some nice flavour.

thenutty1 wrote...
It frustrates me, as guns are starting to become standard for fantasy games. Is it too much to ask for the Dragon Age franchise to be firearm-free unless it concerns the Qunari cannons?

I'd say you're safe for the time being, as this thread is more about just playing with the idea.

Also if there is a trend of firearms in fantasy RPGs, as a PC player atleast, I'm not seeing it.

Modifié par Mabjestic, 01 septembre 2010 - 10:41 .

[gotthammer]

Mabjestic wrote...

Yet there seems to be a need for archers, soldiers, ballistae (and assumingly siege weapons), as well as recruitment efforts in times of war. The ease of use and cost-effectiveness makes firearms a logical step in a world with cannons and explosives, but doesn't invalidate the usefulness of a skilled longbowman. I don't think anyone wants to take away swords or bows, but adding firearms to the mix might add some nice flavour.

This, more than anything.
That and it should be quite a while in the setting (probably? unless the Qunari already have them), if ever, before we see ranks upon ranks of Arquebusiers and pike squares, with cannon in the rear, in DA's battlefields. 

Also if there is a trend of firearms in fantasy RPGs, as a PC player atleast, I'm not seeing it.

Same here. The only one I can remember at the moment is Arcanum. Maybe Japanese CRPGs have more firearms in their fantasy? I dunno...haven't played any in looooong while. 

[Merlin Dawnweaver]

It's difficult to convince technophobs guns are not harmful, They had a time accepting repeating crossbows - although animals with dynamites attaches seem to present no problem.

[Governor Tarkin]

Merlin Dawnweaver wrote...

It's difficult to convince technophobs guns are not harmful, They had a time accepting repeating crossbows - although animals with dynamites attaches seem to present no problem.

No name-calling. Technophobes...comon...this is not the place for that.

[gotthammer]

Merlin Dawnweaver wrote...

It's difficult to convince technophobs guns are not harmful, They had a time accepting repeating crossbows - although animals with dynamites attaches seem to present no problem.

Yeah. No name-calling, please.
From a certain vantage point, I could understand why fantasy fans (particularly those who, I guess, prefer 'PURE fantasy') wouldn't want any 'technology creeping into' a fantasy setting.

I mean, all these 'suggestions' for firearms in the DA setting are just our preferences. Ultimately, it's still up to the creators of the setting. It's only fair to assume that there'll be those who don't like firearms or other technological stuff, but that doesn't make them 'technophobes'. 
The best we can do is make arguments for the case of firearms, logical or otherwise...and hope that we're 'heard'. 
(kinda like me hoping that they won't 'vanish' the Warden in the next DLC so he, and Morrigan, will be back in later DA games...  )

Modifié par gotthammer, 02 septembre 2010 - 06:15 .

[Merlin Dawnweaver]

if some people simply do not prefer firearms, they would object a DLC about guns, after all they don't have to buy it.

[nhsk]

Merlin Dawnweaver wrote...

if some people simply do not prefer firearms, they would object a DLC about guns, after all they don't have to buy it.

The problem with a firearms DLC is that then firearms are set to be in DA3, assuming DA3 will take place after DA2 in the in-world timeline.

I object to firearms because I want my magical Willow'ish / Tolkiens Middleearth / Krynn / etc. fantasy setting, not some steampunk fantasy setting like Arcanum / Warhammer Fantasy / Warcraft etc.

If you want guns, go play one of those games.

The world of DA isn't broken without guns, and like some wise old geezer once said. "If it ain't broken, don't fix it"

[Merlin Dawnweaver]

If something isn't broken, the logical course of action is to make it better.

firearm in a DLC does not set firearm to be in DA3, it could mean a firearm DLC for DA3 if it enough people buys it for DA2.

[Rixxencaxx]

i suppose we can give heroes a plasma cannon and a space suit. Then i suggest tu rename the game calling it Mass Age 2 (subtitle : age of game massification)

[nhsk]

Merlin Dawnweaver wrote...

If something isn't broken, the logical course of action is to make it better.
firearm in a DLC does not set firearm to be in DA3, it could mean a firearm DLC for DA3 if it enough people buys it for DA2.

Guns does not make a game better just because there are guns.

[Merlin Dawnweaver]

neither do they make the game worse just because they are guns.

[Faz432]

Forgetting all what I've said before about the effectiveness of early weapons etc, it can simply come down to this.

The story of DA2 is based in the time of the Blight and up to 10 years after, going by the lore of the game you think they could go from nothing to firearms in 10 years??

Even Adventure games like Fable gave it a couple of hundred years before they introduced firearms in the correct time period.

Modifié par Faz432, 02 septembre 2010 - 10:06 .

[Merlin Dawnweaver]

why not, even if there is only one single working prototype on the entire continent, it's not beyond reach of the very special PC.

[Faz432]

Ok it could be possible to find a prototype Qunari hand cannon, and I know it sounds cool but I literally mean a miniature cast cannon barrel on a stick, these existed but often presented more of a threat to the user than the intended targe and probably would do more damage if used as a club.

Modifié par Faz432, 02 septembre 2010 - 11:06 .

[nhsk]

Guns would break the game for me, so we won't reach an agreement.



I just hope that the majority is on my side, and that BW listens.

[Merlin Dawnweaver]

Let's side with the person who can't provide a reason ! we all know that's the right thing to do.

[nhsk]

Merlin Dawnweaver wrote...

Let's side with the person who can't provide a reason ! we all know that's the right thing to do.

I have provided my reasons. You have provided yours. That you don't think my reasons are good enough other than I don't like guns in the game, don't think they're appropriate for the setting and really want my fantasy setting without guns is your problem. To be frank, you haven't really provided me with a reason to have them.

[Mabjestic]

nhsk wrote...
The problem with a firearms DLC is that then firearms are set to be in DA3, assuming DA3 will take place after DA2 in the in-world timeline.

I object to firearms because I want my magical Willow'ish / Tolkiens Middleearth / Krynn / etc. fantasy setting, not some steampunk fantasy setting like Arcanum / Warhammer Fantasy / Warcraft etc.

If you want guns, go play one of those games.

The world of DA isn't broken without guns, and like some wise old geezer once said. "If it ain't broken, don't fix it"

It's not about transforming the setting to something different, but thinking about what could be the next step or the natural progression. Dragon Age is hardly so fragile, or dependent on a specific balance of swords to bows, as to shatter completely if new elements are introduced to it. As there are cannons and explosives, why would firearms break the mold. You're not going to wake up to some steampunk hellscape with trees made of gears and robotic dragons the second  a hand cannon or a matchlock musket is introduced to the world.

I sure wouldn't like Thedas to be in some technological stasis, so that if we ever get a Dragon Age game set 500 years after the events of DAO, it would feature science just as we left it in the first one. Just because Tolkien didn't want technology polluting his Middle-earth doesn't mean that it should be off-limits for all similar fantasy. The world woudn't be any less magical or mysterious as result, but it might be a lot more interesting.

Modifié par Mabjestic, 02 septembre 2010 - 11:41 .

[Nerys]

I for one don't want to see guns in the DA universe. When I want to play with guns, I play ME. When I want a RPG experience, I play DA.

BTW, you do realize that Ballistas exist in DA right?

[shootist70]

Mabjestic wrote...

I sure wouldn't like Thedas to be in some technological stasis, so that if we ever get a Dragon Age game set 500 years after the events of DAO, it would feature science just as we left it in the first one.

Probably, but not necessarily. A Greek hoplite wouldn't feel out of place in a Saxon shield-wall, just as a Roman centurion wouldn't feel out of place on a 13th century battlefield, and you could stick over a thousand years between each of those.

Modifié par shootist70, 02 septembre 2010 - 12:15 .