215 réponses à ce sujet

[M8DMAN]

I SUPPORT THE RIGHT FOR DWARVES TO BEAR ARMS!

[ErichHartmann]

Don't be ridiculous. Your arbitrarily assuming "technology" in a fantasy world would evolve like our own history. Writers are free to include or exclude whatever they want in a fantasy world.

[Lurklen]

What seems likely is that we might hear about cannon technology being used in Thedas in this game and it could become more common in warfare at a later date. One of the reasons gunpowder warfare even exists(if it is Gunpowder) in the DA setting is because of the Qunari fear of mages. Without that the tech might have gone copletely undiscovered for a long, long time.



Also the Qunari are probably very protective of their cannon not wanting their weapons to fall into the hands of mages who at this time likely don't really know what to make of the Qunari weapons. I don't think we'll see cannons in the rest of Thedas until the kingdoms and the circle stop being so reliant on mages for warfare.

[gotthammer]

ErichHartmann wrote...

Don't be ridiculous. Your arbitrarily assuming "technology" in a fantasy world would evolve like our own history. Writers are free to include or exclude whatever they want in a fantasy world.

That's true. Still, it's nice to 'discuss' that aspect when 'asking' for certain tech. 

Of course, I wouldn't mind a Revenant machinegun falling from the sky (what? Maybe Zaeed got bored and chucked one into the trash disposal thingy while Normandy was orbiting DA's world) into the hands of my character. 
"Pfft at suspension of disbelief, I have a machinegun!" 

[alickar]

like these?

[gotthammer]

alickar wrote...

like these?

sigh. no more battleships. their day has long gone...
to answer the question: nah, not anything that advanced. muzzle loaded cannons w/ wheels would probably be what the qunari currently use, anyway. I'd be content w/ an arquebus (flintlocks, while more 'advanced', would be preferable).

[Mabjestic]

shootist70 wrote...
As for those points about early weapons, well the longbow has been around as long as bows have. Since prehistoric times, basically. The trebuchet would just be an onager with a counterweight instead of a twisted rope, to a roman. Greek fire i'll let you have, that probably wasn't around until just after the end of the Roman Empire. I'm confusing late Roman and early Byzantine armies, but hell, they're almost the same thing, lol. But as you said, we're going off on a tangent here.

Must have.. last.. word..
The English Longbow was developed around that period and was probably the most effective missile weapon of it's time, and it's utilization of extremely large ranks of highly-skilled archers contributed to this. And sure, a trebuchet is basically a sling, but the ones developed at that time also had a huge impact on siege warfare due to improved power, range and accuracy. Yeah sure, they are not drastically different inventions, but still ones that had plenty of impact on warfare and tactics.

shootist70 wrote...
Sure, but my earlier point is that tech evolution shouldn't be taken for granted. You could get a world where warfare is based on swords, shields, spears, chainmail and armour etc for over a thousand years, because that pretty much happened in our own history.

You're right of course, I just wanted to express that a Tolkien-esque technological stasis, just for the sake of it, doesn't seem appealing. DAO and Awakening left  us plenty of ground for potential technological improvement, though naturally a developing world can be illustrated through political or cultural transformations as well.

It's just that science often seems to be getting the short end of  the stick in fantasy settings, even though I doubt the human curiosity on 'how stuff works' would be any different. Magic after all is in no way opposed to science or technology, but more like an other field of study.

ErichHartmann wrote...
Don't be ridiculous. Your arbitrarily assuming "technology" in a fantasy world would evolve like our own history. Writers are free to include or exclude whatever they want in a fantasy world.

Yeah, I'd imagine writers are limited only by their audience, imagination and money. Technology in Thedas should go with what comes naturally, and if faced with Qunari cannons, firearms might be one of those things.

Modifié par Mabjestic, 03 septembre 2010 - 08:13 .

[shootist70]

ErichHartmann wrote...

Don't be ridiculous. Your arbitrarily assuming "technology" in a fantasy world would evolve like our own history. Writers are free to include or exclude whatever they want in a fantasy world.

Yeah I know its fantasy, and some games have done it, but mixing your tropes isn't going to go well if you're not creating a consistent, believable world but just slamming two tropes together for the sake of it - swords 'n sorcery meets the three musketeers.

Personally I think there's a damned good reason for that - high fantasy has the precise appeal of a more mystical era that occurs before modern era technology has its impact on the world. It's a romanticised ideal of worlds that rely on things like heroism and magic and not on technology. Stick things in that have more of a tech, material feel and it erodes that mystique. A writer is going to be a lot more concerned about preserving that appeal than jamming in some novelty items for the hell of it.

Modifié par shootist70, 03 septembre 2010 - 08:59 .

[Paradosi]

Considering that the world is evolving, example with the 10 years past between the story of DA2, it'd be logical that technology would start popping up. Firearms should be very rare at first, but eventually they'd become fairly widespread.

Those that are saying that they'd drop the entire genre if firearms show up, are just acting childishly. In a constantly evolving world, things change, Keeping them stagnant is simply dull. Also as for if firearms and tech could work in a dark fantasy setting, well just look at Warhammer.

Modifié par Paradosi, 03 septembre 2010 - 10:14 .

[Mabjestic]

shootist70 wrote...
Personally I think there's a damned good reason for that - high fantasy has the precise appeal of a more mystical era that occurs before modern era technology has its impact on the world. It's a romanticised ideal of worlds that rely on things like heroism and magic and not on technology. Stick things in that have more of a tech, material feel and it erodes that mystique. A writer is going to be a lot more concerned about preserving that appeal than jamming in some novelty items for the hell of it.

I do not agree with the notion that having technology as a factor is somehow directly opposite to romanticist views of heroism, magic or the mystical. Not the best example, but consider d20 Modern.

As for Dragon Age, no one is asking for airplanes or satellites or even steam engines or the start of an industrial age, but early firearms or other inventions that seem to fit the groundworks already in place would not be novelty or there for the hell of it.

[shootist70]

Mabjestic wrote...

As for Dragon Age, no one is asking for airplanes or satellites or even steam engines or the start of an industrial age, but early firearms or other inventions that seem to fit the groundworks already in place would not be novelty or there for the hell of it.

If you're going to create a serious fictional world, complete with its own lore, you have to consider what it represents. Guns are iconic, they're symbolic of the change to a 'modern world'. That's especially so given how early firearms are more symbolic of European colonialism than of medieval legend. High fantasy represents the mystical, and guns tend to represent the destruction of that, given their history.

One good example of a change to a more modern world from an older one is in Red Dead Redemption. One of the game's subtexts is that it's John Marston's swansong for the vanishing frontier world that made him what he was. If one of DA2's themes is that it's a swansong for the 'Dragon Age', then fair enough, stick your boomsticks in. Otherwise their iconic nature just makes them an intrusive and incongruous creative device.

Anyway, interesting discussion for the sake of a discussion, but I reckon Bioware know all this and are unlikely to stick a load of arquebuses in there to keep you guys happy anytime soon.

Modifié par shootist70, 03 septembre 2010 - 12:11 .

[B3taMaxxx]

There's far to many shooters out there, can we not be content with our non-mechanical steel?

Modifié par B3taMaxxx, 03 septembre 2010 - 12:05 .

[gotthammer]

shootist70 wrote...
Anyway, interesting discussion for the sake of a discussion, but I reckon Bioware know all this and are unlikely to stick a load of arquebuses in there to keep you guys happy anytime soon.

Needle guns, then? 
*starts humming the Königgrätzer Marsch*

[Myxyplyxxx]

CaribWarrior J wrote...

Firearms and Cannons would ruin the game for me. 

This.
I am happy with the way things are in DA:O. Magic, alchemy and traps are sufficient and very effective. I can't see the necessity of complicating things further by adding cannons and guns.

[Ayanko]

[Mecha Tengu]

Myxyplyxxx wrote...

CaribWarrior J wrote...

Firearms and Cannons would ruin the game for me. 

This.
I am happy with the way things are in DA:O. Magic, alchemy and traps are sufficient and very effective. I can't see the necessity of complicating things further by adding cannons and guns.

"Adding"?

the qunari already have canons