114 réponses à ce sujet

[Nightwriter]

Collider wrote...

Do you get that a lot in the Liara thread, Night?

Nah, I don't go in the character threads much anymore except to lurk.

This just happens to me in miscellaneous places.

[Estelindis]

I suggest the creation of a forum awards system solely so I can nominate Nightwriter for one. (Okay, along with Ecael.) Seriously magnificent comebacks there.



Re. Liara, I honestly would have liked some more friendship dialogue to show she and Shep still have a strong bond. But, like most LI characters, she doesn't have much to say to you if you won't reciprocate her romantic feelings. (I really wish all LI characters had a just-as-well-developed friendship arc. I really felt like I was missing out in ME2, solely because my Shep refused to romance anyone because she was waiting for Kaidan.)

[jlb524]

Nightwriter wrote...

Collider wrote...

Do you get that a lot in the Liara thread, Night?

Nah, I don't go in the character threads much anymore except to lurk.

This just happens to me in miscellaneous places.

I think it just happens to you, b/c you did romance Liara in ME1 and then dumped her.  This doesn't happen to Fiery (who romanced Ash) or Estelindis who romanced Kaidan, or Collider that didn't romance anyone in ME1 and romanced Tali in ME2. 

So, only someone like you will get the 'how could you dump her after all she did for you' stuff from some Liara fans.

Modifié par jlb524, 31 août 2010 - 02:39 .

[Collider]

jlb524 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Collider wrote...

Do you get that a lot in the Liara thread, Night?

Nah, I don't go in the character threads much anymore except to lurk.

This just happens to me in miscellaneous places.

I think it just happens to you, b/c you did romance Liara in ME1 and then dumped her.  This doesn't happen to Fiery (who romanced Ash) or Estelindis who romanced Kaidan, or Collider that didn't romance anyone in ME1 and romanced Tali in ME2. 

So, only someone like you will get the 'how could you dump her after all she did for you' stuff from some Liara fans.

Yea, this seems to be the case, in my own experience anyway. I've only seen it for those who had Liara in ME1 and someone else in ME2.

[Nightwriter]

Estelindis wrote...

I suggest the creation of a forum awards system solely so I can nominate Nightwriter for one. (Okay, along with Ecael.) Seriously magnificent comebacks there.

And I totally agree with you about Liara. Her romance started too early, and if you didn't romance her you missed out on content. All the romances suffer from this to some degree. DA:O did it really well.

[Collider]

With one exception, Night. Jacob had a friendship path.

[epoch_]

It's stupid to use something that she does after ME1 as your reason to romance her during ME1. You don't have that knowledge of the redemption events before it actually happens. However if you did romance her in ME1, after finding out about redemption, I can see where you would certainly feel bad for cheating/ moving on from her.

[Estelindis]

jlb524 wrote...
I think it just happens to you, b/c you did romance Liara in ME1 and then dumped her.  This doesn't happen to Fiery (who romanced Ash) or Estelindis who romanced Kaidan, or Collider that didn't romance anyone in ME1 and romanced Tali in ME2. 

So, only someone like you will get the 'how could you dump her after all she did for you' stuff from some Liara fans.

Well, then, that's fair.  I mean, "why won't you romance Liara in spite of all she did for you" is a lot different to "how could you dump her in spite of all she did for you?"  I honestly think it's even worse to dump Liara than Ash or Kai (and I find even doing that awful and totally refuse), because you have no chance to really talk about your relationship at all.  Just that single, extremely confusing kiss.  Liara's clearly been in a bad place since Shepard died, and only when the two of them have a chance to talk about things as rational adults should a decision be made one way or the other (in my view).

If you had a chance to tell Liara this when you see her, I could understand those who dump her better.

Similarly, I wished that when ME2 romance possibilities came up, my Shepard had the chance to say "sorry, I'm not free to pursue that" - particularly with characters like Garrus and Tali, who were part of the same crew with Ash, Kai, and Liara.  (I still can't understand the topic never coming up with them.)

Collider wrote...
With one exception, Night. Jacob had a friendship path.

But it was so difficult to make my Shepard talk to him enough so that she reached it, with the way she acted and spoke around him!  Ew.  And yuck.  And ew once more.

Modifié par Estelindis, 31 août 2010 - 02:53 .

[Nightwriter]

jlb524 wrote...

I think it just happens to you, b/c you did romance Liara in ME1 and then dumped her.  This doesn't happen to Fiery (who romanced Ash) or Estelindis who romanced Kaidan, or Collider that didn't romance anyone in ME1 and romanced Tali in ME2. 

So, only someone like you will get the 'how could you dump her after all she did for you' stuff from some Liara fans.

Actually, no. While us folks who found someone more right for them in ME2 do get the brunt of the venom, I've seen people use the Liara guilt trip when random forumites criticize Liara for her obsessiveness with the SB.

You know, you've heard it before, why didn't she come with us, the Reapers are more important, she's going crazy or whatever. Some of the people who romanced her feel spurned, and say so. That's when they might get the, "You ought to be grateful for everything she did for you, she saved your life and this is how you treat her" stuff, and so on. 

[Collider]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

I do feel that Liara is perhaps the character that can be considered to be the closest thing to a "canon" love interest for the character of Commander Shepard as an entity. Especially considering the fact that she is available to a Shepard of either gender, is guaranteed to survive until ME3, and is also depicted in a comic book, the events of which seem alot more logical if she were Shepard's love interest.

However, there is NO "canon" love interest for the character of Commander Shepard. I cannot emphasise this enough. Liara is merely the LI that is closest to a canon love interest for Shepard.

Agreed entirely.

Modifié par Collider, 31 août 2010 - 02:55 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

I do feel that Liara is perhaps the character that can be considered to be the closest thing to a "canon" love interest for the character of Commander Shepard as an entity. Especially considering the fact that she is available to a Shepard of either gender, is guaranteed to survive until ME3, and is also depicted in a comic book, the events of which seem alot more logical if she were Shepard's love interest.

However, there is NO "canon" love interest for the character of Commander Shepard. I cannot emphasise this enough. Liara is merely the LI that is closest to a canon love interest for Shepard.

That's correct, Nate. There is no canon, but it can be considered or perceived as canon if you look at it from a certain angle.

[Nightwriter]

epoch_ wrote...

I bet you feel forced to romance tali in ME2, don't you?

I find this a curious question. What makes you think the Talimance is similar?

I personally didn't feel forced into romancing Tali. Though it does kind of bug me when people criticize anyone for romancing Miranda because the sex scene could hurt Tali's feelings. I feel like there's all these characters around me I should feel guilty about, while the one character I am interested in is apparently the Great Satan. The Spider Queen. The Marker of Her Territory. I'll bet she just took a pee on the engine room console before Shepard came in.

[Estelindis]

Nightwriter wrote...
While us folks who found someone more right for them in ME2 do get the brunt of the venom, I've seen people use the Liara guilt trip when random forumites criticize Liara for her obsessiveness with the SB.

You know, you've heard it before, why didn't she come with us, the Reapers are more important, she's going crazy or whatever. Some of the people who romanced her feel spurned, and say so. That's when they might get the, "You ought to be grateful for everything she did for you, she saved your life and this is how you treat her" stuff, and so on. 

I don't quite see it like this.  As far as I'm concerned, the ME1 LI had to go two years without Shep.  Now Shep is back.  The least thing Shep can do is give things some time rather than jumping into some other arms straight away.

Okay: so perhaps Shep does find someone who suits him or her better.  Perhaps s/he realises that, now s/he has found this love, s/he can't go back to the ME1 love.  S/he would always be seeing the ME1 LI as "second best," and resenting him or her for what was given up.  That's all very well and good.

But when you first meet your ME1 LI in ME2, things are quite difficult and strained.  Ash or Kai has been mourning you and trying to get past what happened, and on top of that Liara has the guilt from what she's done with Cerberus.  For two years.  To respect what the others have gone through, and to show some reciprocity, I feel it would be better for Shepard to wait a while before starting a new relationship.  Get to the point where s/he can talk with Ash, Kai, and Liara, and say that s/he still values them but is in a different place now and wishes to move on and/or to be with someone else.  Going straight into another's arms while the other relationship is unresolved just seems so unfair to me, after the horrible two years the ME1 LI has been through.

And therein lies the problem.  ME2 does not let you do this.  You either take up the ME2 LI or you don't.  There's no chance to say "can we wait a bit, I need to clear things up with Ash/Kai/Liara?"  I feel there should be.

For all that Shepard is a galactic hero, s/he doesn't conduct her or his personal matters in the most spectacular or honourable way possible...  (Stupid Horizon.  "How you doin'?"  Grr.)

Ultimately, then, while I don't go for the ME1-romance-followed-by-ME2-romance option myself, I can see how many might, simply because the game isn't very flexible when it comes to these matters.  And it doesn't have to be because you don't appreciate the ME1 LI or what they went through.  It's because ME2 doesn't give you a chance to let them down gently, or to have a "provisional" ME2 romance.

Modifié par Estelindis, 31 août 2010 - 03:13 .

[jlb524]

Nightwriter wrote...

Actually, no. While us folks who found someone more right for them in ME2 do get the brunt of the venom, I've seen people use the Liara guilt trip when random forumites criticize Liara for her obsessiveness with the SB.

You know, you've heard it before, why didn't she come with us, the Reapers are more important, she's going crazy or whatever. Some of the people who romanced her feel spurned, and say so. That's when they might get the, "You ought to be grateful for everything she did for you, she saved your life and this is how you treat her" stuff, and so on. 

That has nothing to do with romance though.  That has more to do with people unrealistically bashing Liara, calling her a nutjob, describing all the horrible ways they would like to kill her in ME3, etc.  I have no problem with those that took a new LI in ME2, but I do have problems with those that did and then try to justify it by saying Liara has flown off of her rocker and thus deserves it.  Or, people that just hate on Liara in ME2 generally regardless of romance.

I've seen no one harrass Ashley or Kaidan fans by saying they should go back and romance Liara instead of Ashley or Kaidan because she did so much for them.

Modifié par jlb524, 31 août 2010 - 03:12 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

I'm totally loving the debate in this thread. lol!

Incidentally, this whole subject should techncially go here, OP.

[Nightwriter]

Estelindis wrote...

The least thing Shep can do is give things some time rather than jumping into some other arms straight away.

It always starts like this. "The least you could do..." And then the judgment comes.

People have this idea in their heads that this has to be treated like a real relationship, and it can't be. There's no "waiting", there's no "breaking up". If you "wait", you miss the whole romance of game two, and romance content is precious. There's absolutely no guarantee you can start a new romance with an ME2 character in ME3. Somehow I doubt it. So basically I must abstain from my favorite romance out of... guilt, I guess.

And I wish to god I could break up, but like you said, there's simply no option to, which bugs the crap out of me.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 31 août 2010 - 03:21 .

[Estelindis]

Nightwriter wrote...
It always starts like this. "The least you could do..." And then the judgment comes.

People have this idea in their heads that this has to be treated like a real relationship, and it can't be. There's no "waiting", there's no "breaking up". If you "wait", you miss the whole romance of game two, and romance content is precious. There's absolutely no guarantee you can start a new romance with an ME2 character in ME3. Somehow I doubt it. So basically I must abstain from my favorite romance out of... guilt, I guess.

And I wish to god I could break up, but like you said, there's simply no option to, which bugs the crap out of me.

Yes, I see your point.  Ideally, one would be able to treat the relationships in a more mature fashion, but the games simply don't allow it.  And how you respond to that limitation is up to you, for your own enjoyment of the playing experience.

That said: is it wrong for me to hope that those who have chosen ME2 LIs after ME1 LIs will not have the option to choose to get back with the ME1 LI later?  I mean, if you choose person X instead of person Y, shouldn't that decision stand?

[jlb524]

I just don't see how it's 'jerky' to turn Liara down in ME1 and either romance Ashley or Kaidan instead, or simply stay single until ME2.



I've never seen anyone claim this either.

[Sunnie]

Oh yes, Liara's romance is sooooo FORCED! OMG!



Liara: I feel something else for you Shepard, do you also feel something else for me?



Answer1: OMG Yes!

Answer2: No, lets keep it professional

Answer3: WTF? NO!



OMG Theres not enough NO answers!!! See? FORCED!



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