29 réponses à ce sujet

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

Mages get heal, rejuvenate, regeneration and mass rejuvenation.

Spirit healers get group heal, lifeward, Cleansing aura and Revival.

Here is the catch. The team rarely take mass damage CONSTANTLY. Unless stupid enough to stand in AOE. When they do take mass damage, everyone can use one pot to offset it. Sure grou heal is nice. But overated?

Lifeward heals if target gets to low. But wouldnt casting a regenerate be better mana use?

Cleansing aura needs proximity. And the healing isnt that great is it?

Revival... well, if the tank dies its reload anyway. The time it takes to 1)ress 2) heal up the dead guy 3)Get aggro again is more than enough for whatever encounter you are in to kill the rest of you. Its alot better to just reload?


Also about shapeshifter. Is it really as weak and pathetic people say it is, or is the forms decent?

Ive only tried morrigans spidershape myself and the spider does crappy damage, has crappy hp, and dies in 2 seconds.

[Myzzrimm]

Don'tforget that the spider has the Web ability, which is auto paralyze, which is awesome.

[Jersey75639]

Well, I *could* debate with you about which of these is more practical of a choice...



But I think instead I will go smash my face on the keyboard and watch things die with my Arcane Warrior.

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

Myzzrimm wrote...

Don'tforget that the spider has the Web ability, which is auto paralyze, which is awesome.

But one wintergrasp or paralyze spell would have the same effect and still allow her to do more damage as a mage? And the shapeshifting takes ages to cast. Im wondering about going shapeshifter on my PC so just wondered if its a solid choise or if the forms are so weak magic will always be better

[Raltar]

You basically get everything Shapeshifter has to offer in the ranger specialization...except you don't give up a mage to get it. So, yeah...Shapeshifter is probably the worst specialization in the game.

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

Jersey75639 wrote...

Well, I *could* debate with you about which of these is more practical of a choice...

But I think instead I will go smash my face on the keyboard and watch things die with my Arcane Warrior.

Tried it, powerfull but - autoattack gets boring ^^

[Archfiend]

SomeoneStoleMyName wrote...


Mages get heal, rejuvenate, regeneration and mass rejuvenation.

Spirit healers get group heal, lifeward, Cleansing aura and Revival.

Here is the catch. The team rarely take mass damage CONSTANTLY. Unless stupid enough to stand in AOE. When they do take mass damage, everyone can use one pot to offset it. Sure grou heal is nice. But overated?

Lifeward heals if target gets to low. But wouldnt casting a regenerate be better mana use?

Cleansing aura needs proximity. And the healing isnt that great is it?

Revival... well, if the tank dies its reload anyway. The time it takes to 1)ress 2) heal up the dead guy 3)Get aggro again is more than enough for whatever encounter you are in to kill the rest of you. Its alot better to just reload?


Also about shapeshifter. Is it really as weak and pathetic people say it is, or is the forms decent?

Ive only tried morrigans spidershape myself and the spider does crappy damage, has crappy hp, and dies in 2 seconds.

cleansing aura is pretty junky
i used revive several times but it isnt really needed
life ward is good to cast on the tank before a big fight that way a lucky crit or somethign dosent drop him, regen wont stop those big hits and you may not have time to cast before they die;pots and spells have animation time.
group heal is very nice i found, heal has a timer, use group to offset that, besides that you cannot always avoid the AOEs, or avoid getting surrounded. its easier to click one button and heal everyone than burn through 4 pots.

i never found shapshifter to be of much use, the mage is much more powerful in normal form.

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

Thanks for the info so far. I was also wondering something that is kinda VITAL to shapeshifting.



Do your substained buffs work while in shapeshift form?

[Archfiend]

SomeoneStoleMyName wrote...

Thanks for the info so far. I was also wondering something that is kinda VITAL to shapeshifting.

Do your substained buffs work while in shapeshift form?

no.

[Maria Caliban]

If I had a three made party, shapeshifter would be useful.



I think spirit healer is one of the best specializations in the game.

[MightySword]

I don't think spirit healer is overated. Sure, "ideally" you don't need a spirit healer if you have plenty of pots to spare but some fight can really be hectic and having a spirit healer is a good insurance.

- Your character can't use pot if it's under a CC, so imagine when you health get low and you try to use a pot, but got shield bash, fireball, paralyzed, horror or all that good stuff, without someone tossing a health you death. And this happen quite a lot in high level fight.

- Revival is also very important, most of the high level boss fight against spell caster they will always cast the Curse of Mortality on your tank, unless your tank in top health before the spell is cast you have two option. Duck it out and hope the tank survive unless you have something to purge the effect like Templar, most of the time in this approach I find my tank get toasted, so revival help there. Or you have to use other party members to spread out the damage during the duration of the curse (because you can heal them), when this happen mass-heal is great. Also, almost on same token, your tank in high level fight gonna have that "Imprisonment" spell cast on you, that paralyze and put a big DOT on you, this combine with the fact that if your tank holding argo he gonna take massive damage too, and he can't use pot. Again, unless you have something to dispell you really need the Spirit Healer arsenal to keep the tank up.

- And frankly, some fight just have a bunch of AOE no matter your tank good or bad. So mass heal and Cleansing aura is great when the basic heal is not enough since it like the lyrium potions your mage drink become a bunch of health potions for all other chars so they can focus on fighting, or when they get CC.

Also, I think you forget to take into consideration the fact that "Specialization" is a mutual inclusive thing. Sure, the specialization only comes with 4 unique spell, and all mages can still have all other spells, but the things is the built won't make sense that way. You pick a spirit healer because you likely invest the built to be a support type. I don't imagine anyone building a nuke-type mage will have more than Heal/Force Shield. So no, spirit healer is not overated.



About shapeshifter, yes I think it useless. There is nothing you can do in shapeshifpter form that you can't do in a regular form minus the losing all other spells as a mage.

Modifié par MightySword, 11 novembre 2009 - 07:16 .

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

- Revival is also very important, most of the high level boss fight against spell caster they will always cast the Curse of Mortality on your tank

The mere thought of that makes me shiver IRL  I guess spirit healer is great afterall. 

[dannythefool]

You will face enemies that AoE the darkspawn taint out of your party in small rooms.
You will face enemies that will easily kill your tank.
You will face enemies that will instapop your damage dealers if you don't watch their damage output.
You will face enemies that will use crowd control on you or your tank, preventing that character from using potions.

Heal alone is useful, group heal certainly helps because it's sort of a potion amplifier, you get to heal four people for what, one lesser lyrium potion or even less than that? Cleansing aura is useful for certain negative effects, and you don't have to bring injury kits since you can cure injuries with the aura instead. The other healing spells don't help as much, although it's hard to quantify how much e.g. rejuvenation does for you.

I'm not sure about shape shifters, the description makes it sound like knowledge of these forms helps with resistances (?) even when not shifted, but this effect doesn't seem to be very pronounced. As far as I can tell it's just something that fits in nicely with the story, but so far I haven't felt I want to play a shape shifter because it'd be awesome...

Modifié par dannythefool, 11 novembre 2009 - 07:58 .

[Relshar]

Shape Shiffting is ok against a single normal enemy. But after that its a bit rubbish. That is unless your actualy Flemith, but I wont go there as it may spoil the game for some latter on.

[Boeresmurf]

only the master swarm form is viable.. since ya cant pot or anything in shift forms.. and the swarm got a great dodge skill and nice damage...



bereskarn overwhelm looks awsome but it dies... like... ow its dead... so bloody fast and plls amjor aggro.



mage is best in mage form, i really find spirit healer / arcana warrior combi good.



cast keep regen aura on.. cast 1 cc spell go smash stuf and heal when needed.



wynne is walking in juggernaut in my playthrough..

[prmsntrcrps]

The thing is that the only mage specialization apart from spirit healer that is remotely useful is bloodmage - arcane warrior is great sure, but mages still do more dps by casting instead of meleeing and you most likely have a tank for tanking. Bloodmage is awesome but it's basically just more aoe + more CC, things mages got plenty of already.



Why NOT spend one talent point on the group heal when all other niches are already covered by normal mage skills or a single warrior?

[BonafideSeraphim]

prmsntrcrps wrote...

The thing is that the only mage specialization apart from spirit healer that is remotely useful is bloodmage - arcane warrior is great sure, but mages still do more dps by casting instead of meleeing and you most likely have a tank for tanking. Bloodmage is awesome but it's basically just more aoe + more CC, things mages got plenty of already.

Why NOT spend one talent point on the group heal when all other niches are already covered by normal mage skills or a single warrior?

Arcane Warrior is EASILY the best. You can solo any fight on Nightmare with a properly specced and buffed AW.

[Duck and Cover]

hmm I may regret putting one point in bear form on Morrigan. Oh well. I tried it last battle when she was running low on mana. It seemed ok. But if I lose frost weapons I don't want it.



qustion on frost weapons- does it work with mage staves as well?

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

Duck and Cover wrote...

hmm I may regret putting one point in bear form on Morrigan. Oh well. I tried it last battle when she was running low on mana. It seemed ok. But if I lose frost weapons I don't want it.

qustion on frost weapons- does it work with mage staves as well?

Nope :<

[Haasth]

I very much like the Spirit Healer abilities - besides the last, Cleansing. (The last just seems useless to me, from my observations.)
The thing is, regeneration and the main heal does not seem to last when your tank - in my case alistair - seems to get pounded heavily by everyone. You simply can't heal him faster than he takes damage. That's where lifeward and group heal take their place. Lifeward is simply useful to buy yourself quite some extra time would you not be capable of healing him all the time. Group heal is basically another heal you can quickly throw in if your main heal is already on a cooldown.

Regeneration is great and I always have it on my tank while in combat, but it won't keep him alive solely. And although in many fights the main heal is sufficient combined with regeneration. Certain fights won't work with that, unless you can manage to keep him using potions every few seconds.

Currently I have both my mage, who has both regeneration and heal and Wynne in my party. The latter mostly to get me some 'respect points', but her spirit healing is very useful if Alistair gets pounded on from all sides.

Oh and of course, lets not forget about Revive. It's great to turn the tide of battle if it looks grim. Basically once my tank falls, the rest of my team falls. With revive I can still win would he do that.

------

As for Shapeshifting... well... I quite dislike it. I have it on Morrigan but there doesn't seem to be any huge increase in damage when she's in spider form. I sometimes use bear form for some off-tanking... but generally pretty useless.

Modifié par Haasth, 11 novembre 2009 - 11:18 .

[Zippe]

George is working on a mod which adds a second line of Specialization Talents to the Shapeshifter, those are actually quite nice:

http://dragonage.gul...hp/mods/shifter

Modifié par Zippe, 11 novembre 2009 - 11:16 .

[Haasth]

Zippe wrote...

George is working on a mod which adds a second line of Specialization Talents to the Shapeshifter, those are actually quite nice:

http://dragonage.gul...hp/mods/shifter

Now that looks actually nice.

[madal434]

Zippe wrote...

George is working on a mod which adds a second line of Specialization Talents to the Shapeshifter, those are actually quite nice:

http://dragonage.gul...hp/mods/shifter

yea it really looks good...Im looking forward to it

[Boeresmurf]

drake would be so cool