147 réponses à ce sujet

[SithLordExarKun]

Ok, i am sure many players should have noticed this... but i think Shepard is a shallow character in both games with very little character development.

One example is in ME2, he/she goes around solving squadmates issues... but what about his/her issues?? I don't know how to explain this further.

[AngryFrozenWater]

In ME1 there were 3 optional missions (one for each background) that would show a bit of his/her origins. Still, I agree with you. We don't know much about him/her.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 31 août 2010 - 11:44 .

[upsettingshorts]

My Shepard develops because the choices I allow him to make evolve over time. Granted I have to do this by cheating myself max Charm/Intimidate or Paragon/Renegade depending on the game.



But he's more or less a vessel for the player. I think it'd be tough to pull off without seriously metagaming like I do.

[FuturePasTimeCE]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

In ME1 there were 3 optional missions (one for each background) that would show a bit of his/her origins. Still, I agree with you. We don't know much about him/her.

nothing was centered on shephard's personal character... mainly his squad-mates (mass effect 2). 

mass effect 1 was really about stopping some super terrorist from blowing up a space station city, and conducting some mechanical apocalypse ... and more about some galactic army ****... nothing about his personal life.

Modifié par FuturePasTimeCE, 31 août 2010 - 11:51 .

[SithLordExarKun]

Thing is every squaddie had their issues in the second game and time was needed to solve their issues, but what about Shepard? What about his/her personal problems, concerns etc etc?

[Badpie]

Part of the lack of character development is that it's your Shepard and they didn't want to impose TOO much. They gave you the basics and most people kind of come up with their own Shepard backstory.

In ME1 though, Shepard had some really great moments of being "real" and showing some vulnerability and overcoming things and the like. They did a great job of still kind of keeping him a blank slate but guiding your idea of him. I felt in ME1 that the story revolved around him and I liked the moments where Liara and Ashley actually asked him how he was holding up and they asked him things about himself.



In ME2 it was not about Shepard at all. Shepard was a tool that was used to facilitate the story, not the focus of the story itself. I didn't like this as much. There wasn't a single moment of anyone saying "but how are YOU doing?" or even a moment of Shepard considering for a second all the the things that had happened to him. It was just kind of "Oh I was dead and I woke up and whatever this kind of thing happens all the time let's go shoot stuff!"

I would have liked to see more character development for Shepard in ME2 in the direction they went in ME1.

[upsettingshorts]

If Bioware wrote developments for Shepards character fans would grow annoyed that he didn't change in the way they desired. He's a vessel. It wouldn't work the same way it does in a non-interactive medium.

[SithLordExarKun]

Well he/she looks more like an empty soulless vessel to me. I don't know how else to explain it, even my warden had more of a personality than shepard but thats besides the point.



There was absolutely nothing that we can choose to do to develop his/her character further. Like badpie mentioned, there was no "vulnerability" in Shepard in any game(I respectfully disagree with you about him/her being more developed in ME1[ok maybe a littlebit in ME1]), there was not much that actually made me care about Shepard at all.



Im not suggesting bioware to fully flesh out Shepard but rather take the development a little further, i don't know how else to explain this. I mean we can choose how Shepard reacts to situations, but thats where it stops, theres no issues for Shepard to deal with, no personal problems and hell i never seen shepard get upset and cry(femshep) over any "love issue:,

[upsettingshorts]

The Warden only had depth in that his origin was far more varied.

He didn't "develop" at all because he's even more of an empty vessel for the player because he doesn't even speak, and you're picking his exact words.  His personality was a direct reflection of your will.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 31 août 2010 - 12:24 .

[KVerde]

Shepard is a total badass that wants to save the galaxy. That is all the character he/she needs. Anybody would want to do the same if given the opportunity.

[snfonseka]

No issues with my Shepards.....

[Iakus]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Thing is every squaddie had their issues in the second game and time was needed to solve their issues, but what about Shepard? What about his/her personal problems, concerns etc etc?

I think part of it is the focus of the two games.  In ME 1 the focus of the game was on 'the mission" ie stop Saren.  You can get away with less charactarization simply because most players wouldn't be looking to closely for it.  ME 1 had a few moments of it, but not  a whole lot. 

In ME 2 the focus is "the characters" Every  squaddie gets a personal mission where they can show they have depth and stuff.  It's isolated from the rest of the game, but it's there.  Except for Shepard, who does everyone else's personal missions but has no "Shep mission"

And I agree, by ME 2 Shepard has been through enough traumas to keep a battalion of psychiatrists busy for an entire career.  I mean, he died at the start of the game, then things got really bad.  It might have been nice if there could have been a mission where Shep was sidelined and the rest of the squad had to do something to help Shep out

[AngryFrozenWater]

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

In ME1 there were 3 optional missions (one for each background) that would show a bit of his/her origins. Still, I agree with you. We don't know much about him/her.

nothing was centered on shephard's personal character... mainly his squad-mates (mass effect 2). 

mass effect 1 was really about stopping some super terrorist from blowing up a space station city, and conducting some mechanical apocalypse ... and more about some galactic army ****... nothing about his personal life.

Those 3 assignments depended on your background. In one you get to speak with your mother. In the other one you meet with a member of a gang you used to belong to. The third one is about a girl who gets abused as a slave in Minoir (your place of birth). That one is really touching. Those are as close to your background as you can get.

[KVerde]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

In ME1 there were 3 optional missions (one for each background) that would show a bit of his/her origins. Still, I agree with you. We don't know much about him/her.

nothing was centered on shephard's personal character... mainly his squad-mates (mass effect 2). 

mass effect 1 was really about stopping some super terrorist from blowing up a space station city, and conducting some mechanical apocalypse ... and more about some galactic army ****... nothing about his personal life.

Those 3 assignments depended on your background. In one you get to speak with your mother. In the other one you meet with a member of a gang you used to belong to. The third one is about a girl who gets abused as a slave in Minoir (your place of birth). That one is really touching. Those are as close to your background as you can get.

Your proposed missions would not work. In one of the possible backgrounds Shepard's parents are both dead. Also Shepard was not a gang in all the backgrounds. Though visiting Shepard's homeworld would be interesting. Perhaps that could shed light on his character some more.

[AngryFrozenWater]

KVerde wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

In ME1 there were 3 optional missions (one for each background) that would show a bit of his/her origins. Still, I agree with you. We don't know much about him/her.

nothing was centered on shephard's personal character... mainly his squad-mates (mass effect 2). 

mass effect 1 was really about stopping some super terrorist from blowing up a space station city, and conducting some mechanical apocalypse ... and more about some galactic army ****... nothing about his personal life.

Those 3 assignments depended on your background. In one you get to speak with your mother. In the other one you meet with a member of a gang you used to belong to. The third one is about a girl who gets abused as a slave in Minoir (your place of birth). That one is really touching. Those are as close to your background as you can get.

Your proposed missions would not work. In one of the possible backgrounds Shepard's parents are both dead. Also Shepard was not a gang in all the backgrounds. Though visiting Shepard's homeworld would be interesting. Perhaps that could shed light on his character some more.

Did you ever play the game? Those assignments are actually in ME1. Maybe you didn't find them. Anyway, here is more information about them (so you can discuss the matter more informed next time):

Citadel: Old, Unhappy, Far-Off Things.
Citadel: Old Friends.
Citadel: I Remember Me.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 31 août 2010 - 02:19 .

[SithLordExarKun]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

The Warden only had depth in that his origin was far more varied.

He didn't "develop" at all because he's even more of an empty vessel for the player because he doesn't even speak, and you're picking his exact words.  His personality was a direct reflection of your will.

Which is why i essentially think shepard is a less developed character than the warden....

[Iona]

Badpie, if you romanced Jacob, he does ask how shepard's holding up. As far as I know, he's the only one to ask how shepard is. Just thought you'd like to know.



For my personal Shepards, their backstories were more of some unspoken development that went through my head. In ME1, my femshep was smart and incredibly paragon, but after seeing the uglier side of the galaxy, she actually roughened up a bit. I think the character development is supposed to be something just you enjoy, asides from those origin missions. I do hope that in ME3, the characters will make sure Shepard is okay and inquire more about them.

[Mike2640]

Well-Bread Human wrote...

Badpie, if you romanced Jacob, he does ask how shepard's holding up. As far as I know, he's the only one to ask how shepard is. Just thought you'd like to know.

And that's why I'll always like Jacob. He's the only one who seems to care how Shep feels.
But I think part of the problem with developing Shep as a character is that you're never really sure what he/she is about to say. You've got the vague hints, but they dont offer any insight into the meaning behind what will be said. Often times with the Warden, I could understand exactly why he was saying that in relation to the events on hand. Since we cant know what Shep is going to say, we're powerless in furthering his/her development as a person.

[Destroy Raiden_]

I want Shepard to suffer a mental breakdown from his crews lack of concern for him!

[Destroy Raiden_]

If they changed the summery choice wheel to nice (para) business (neutral) and FU (ren) they'd do just fine. Then you could pick your mood to their questions and disingenuous assertions!

[Destroy Raiden_]

Ok. Enough jokes seriously....every squad member has a loyalty mission that flushes out their characters for the best or worst in them but Shepard gets a crappy side quest in 1 give some drunk a stern talking to save a girl from suicide ( this one was better btw) but beyond that nothing. Even though Shepard is the vessel for the player we all know Jack about the specific events playing a flashback mission of Midior, Akuze, or Earth would only serve to solidify Shepard as a person with in the players mind knowing the past is the key to the future is it not? And by only having words on paper this does not help with our Shepard's making their future seeing how Shepard went from the low depth and coming back would only serve the player to mold their character even more!

[upsettingshorts]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

The Warden only had depth in that his origin was far more varied.

He didn't "develop" at all because he's even more of an empty vessel for the player because he doesn't even speak, and you're picking his exact words.  His personality was a direct reflection of your will.

Which is why i essentially think shepard is a less developed character than the warden....

That doesn't really make any sense.

Shepard has elements of his character that are out of your control.  They're essentially his.  They are his character, not yours.

Although he's 90% a reflection of your will as opposed to nearly 100% with the Warden.

[ZombieGambit]

I always imagined Shepard having nightmares about Torfan/Akuze and about Virmire or maybe flashbacks before a mission. I think that would have been cool. It would have showed what's going on in his/her mind instead of the nothing we have now.



An entire galaxy is dependent on the outcome of Shepard's actions, but he/she never stops to even contemplate it.

[Urazz]

Badpie wrote...

Part of the lack of character development is that it's your Shepard and they didn't want to impose TOO much. They gave you the basics and most people kind of come up with their own Shepard backstory.
In ME1 though, Shepard had some really great moments of being "real" and showing some vulnerability and overcoming things and the like. They did a great job of still kind of keeping him a blank slate but guiding your idea of him. I felt in ME1 that the story revolved around him and I liked the moments where Liara and Ashley actually asked him how he was holding up and they asked him things about himself.

In ME2 it was not about Shepard at all. Shepard was a tool that was used to facilitate the story, not the focus of the story itself. I didn't like this as much. There wasn't a single moment of anyone saying "but how are YOU doing?" or even a moment of Shepard considering for a second all the the things that had happened to him. It was just kind of "Oh I was dead and I woke up and whatever this kind of thing happens all the time let's go shoot stuff!"
I would have liked to see more character development for Shepard in ME2 in the direction they went in ME1.

I feel the same way.  I would've preferred some choice on how Shepard develops.  I.E. in ME2, I would've liked for there to be a choice on how Shepards handles the knowledge that he actually died once.  I would imagine that would cause some problems.

[dreman9999]

There's you problem.....Your thinking of Shepard, your Shepard, as a 3rd person character that you have no control of. That you are viewing their actions and choices and not the one doing all the choices personally. The thing is that this is a role playing game ...that you play a role. You decide the growth, what the character hates, likes and any other discussion the character makes....like acting. If you find that Shepard has no development, that means your Shepard did not develop, that you did not develop the character at all.

If your Shepard had no development that's your problem.

Modifié par dreman9999, 01 septembre 2010 - 01:46 .