147 réponses à ce sujet

[SithLordExarKun]

PWENER wrote...


1. Yeah, I see my Shepard willingly give the base to Cerberus, but it wasn't him? You are so smart.

Ah yes, because you weren't the one controlling him? How supremely intelligent you are. I wish i was as smart as you.

PWENER wrote...
2. Dr. Chakwas explains why Shepard's personality doesn't change even after going through such trauma. This is a mistake, since Shepard's personality does change in the treansition between ME1 to ME2 (I won't explain it, find that out yourself, since you seem too hard headed to listen to anything I would say).

  I've read it, and believe me, you make as much sense as a retarded monkey. Shepard does not exhibit any personality change at all, maybe minor ones but not a major change in character like other great characters in other games and films.

PWENER wrote...
3. Why would Garrus's personality shift effect Shepard at all? They're two different people, what the hell are you talking about? You really make no sense with that statement.

Where did i say Garrus personaility shift  should effect Shepard? Wow seriously, equip your spectacles properly and learn to read, all i did was state how there was a transition with Garrus personality and character between the two games while Shepard showed no change in personality at all, no where did i state his personality should effect Shepards.

I thought your genius intellect in psychology would allow you to be smart enough to realize this, but i guess im starting to see differently.

PWENER wrote...
4. I never said Im a genius by stating Im studying psychology. All I said is that I know a thing or two about personalities and the mind.

No, but you tried to use that position to try to tell me im wrong and you're right.

PWENER wrote...
5. I am a genius though.

Yes, a genius who can't read.

[PWENER]

Pocketgb wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

My problem is that however you define your Shepard, the game world and characters don't really respond, you're just Shepard the Hero. I wish they'd defined more of Shepard's past. His time in Alliance training, for instance. I would've loved a recurring Christopher Lloyd type mentor/crazy scientist character who Shepard used to study under. Shepard's 29, a full-fledged Spectre, commands an entire vessel, and he still calls the guy Professor like he's 17 and in a classroom. The professor never approved of Shepard going all military instead of pursuing science, comically complains about the woe of the decision and often asks if Shepard is happy being a muscle-necked jarhead and if his abs have gained sentience yet. Little characterizations like that make a person. It's late. I ramble.

Role-playing depth is the degree at which you can control your character. In Mass Effect's case I only considered it a 'nudge'. I wasn't steering nor communicating specifically what he should do, I only glanced in the directions I wanted him to go.

This isn't to say I'm not pleased with the end result, and it isn't to say that I think Shepard's boring, but it is to say that you have very little control over him as a character.

I believe I have complete control over my Shepard. I guess everyone experiences it differently.  

[PWENER]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

PWENER wrote...


1. Yeah, I see my Shepard willingly give the base to Cerberus, but it wasn't him? You are so smart.

Ah yes, because you weren't the one controlling him? How supremely intelligent you are. I wish i was as smart as you.

PWENER wrote...
2. Dr. Chakwas explains why Shepard's personality doesn't change even after going through such trauma. This is a mistake, since Shepard's personality does change in the treansition between ME1 to ME2 (I won't explain it, find that out yourself, since you seem too hard headed to listen to anything I would say).

  I've read it, and believe me, you make as much sense as a retarded monkey. Shepard does not exhibit any personality change at all, maybe minor ones but not a major change in character like other great characters in other games and films.

PWENER wrote...
3. Why would Garrus's personality shift effect Shepard at all? They're two different people, what the hell are you talking about? You really make no sense with that statement.

Where did i say Garrus personaility shift  should effect Shepard? Wow seriously, equip your spectacles properly and learn to read, all i did was state how there was a transition with Garrus personality and character between the two games while Shepard showed no change in personality at all, no where did i state his personality should effect Shepards.

I thought your genius intellect in psychology would allow you to be smart enough to realize this, but i guess im starting to see differently.

PWENER wrote...
4. I never said Im a genius by stating Im studying psychology. All I said is that I know a thing or two about personalities and the mind.

No, but you tried to use that position to try to tell me im wrong and you're right.

PWENER wrote...
5. I am a genius though.

Yes, a genius who can't read.

Retarded monkey? Okay, your taking the discussion way too far, Im done with you if this is the direction your going to take. I never insulted you so there is no reason you should start. Im not even going to read the rest of what you wrote if that's how you start communicating with me.

See ya, and be more civil next time.

[HTTP 404]

i played a bipolar shepard where he would get upset about the smallest things(renegade) and in same conversation be very nice.

[PWENER]

HTTP 404 wrote...

i played a bipolar shepard where he would get upset about the smallest things(renegade) and in same conversation be very nice.

Nice.

[Whatever42]

PWENER wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

That's why I think they're going with the single origin with DA2 - so they can create a character with a past. In ME, what is your past? Were you a bad ass, troubled kid who's parents where killed by slavers? Were you a neglected loner spacer kid who lived inside video games and porn sites? Where you a gang leader who ruthless cut down your opposition? We were given the option (however thin) of imagining our past, so they really can't bring it up in any meaningful context. That does make Shepard a bit of a blank slate with a military record.

Sure you can build on him or imagine a past but most of us don't invent a backstory to flesh out our CRPG characters.

I suspect our next ME hero after ME3 will have a single origin and a real backstory.

I prefer things like they are, left to the imagination. If BW fills in all the blanks, we're left with everyone's Shepard's being the same, with no differences. I even thought that having canon Earthborn Shepard be in a gang as a teeneger was too much.

It is a trade off, I suppose: depth or variety. You can still have variations on a single background (hey, throw in playable flashbacks!) but I appreciate your viewpoint. Maybe it does depend on whether you see Shepard as another character or whether you can really roleplay him, putting yourself in his/her shoes that makes the difference.  

[SithLordExarKun]

PWENER wrote...

SithLordExarKun wrote...

PWENER wrote...


1. Yeah, I see my Shepard willingly give the base to Cerberus, but it wasn't him? You are so smart.

Ah yes, because you weren't the one controlling him? How supremely intelligent you are. I wish i was as smart as you.

PWENER wrote...
2. Dr. Chakwas explains why Shepard's personality doesn't change even after going through such trauma. This is a mistake, since Shepard's personality does change in the treansition between ME1 to ME2 (I won't explain it, find that out yourself, since you seem too hard headed to listen to anything I would say).

  I've read it, and believe me, you make as much sense as a retarded monkey. Shepard does not exhibit any personality change at all, maybe minor ones but not a major change in character like other great characters in other games and films.

PWENER wrote...
3. Why would Garrus's personality shift effect Shepard at all? They're two different people, what the hell are you talking about? You really make no sense with that statement.

Where did i say Garrus personaility shift  should effect Shepard? Wow seriously, equip your spectacles properly and learn to read, all i did was state how there was a transition with Garrus personality and character between the two games while Shepard showed no change in personality at all, no where did i state his personality should effect Shepards.

I thought your genius intellect in psychology would allow you to be smart enough to realize this, but i guess im starting to see differently.

PWENER wrote...
4. I never said Im a genius by stating Im studying psychology. All I said is that I know a thing or two about personalities and the mind.

No, but you tried to use that position to try to tell me im wrong and you're right.

PWENER wrote...
5. I am a genius though.

Yes, a genius who can't read.

Retarded monkey? Okay, your taking the discussion way too far, Im done with you if this is the direction your going to take. I never insulted you so there is no reason you should start. Im not even going to read the rest of what you wrote if that's how you start communicating with me.

See ya, and be more civil next time.

Dude, learn to read. I never said you're a retarded moneky, i simply said you make as much sense as one. And please, don't try to play innocent when you implied several things earlier.

[Pocketgb]

PWENER wrote...
I believe I have complete control over my Shepard. I guess everyone experiences it differently.

Have you chosen the 'douchebag' response (i.e. bottom right) when talking to Sha'ira?

[HTTP 404]

IDK what you guys are arguing about mainly because I didnt want to read any of it. I kinda agree with the OP. In me1, shepard had his for lack of better term, Origin missions. Colonist shepard dealt with suicidal chick, Spacer dealt with mother's friend, survivor had Toombs who remembered him, etc. ME2 did nothing with the origins we chose for shepard.

[Pocketgb]

Testing!

Okay the forums work again.

Modifié par Pocketgb, 02 septembre 2010 - 05:11 .

[PWENER]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

PWENER wrote...

SithLordExarKun wrote...

PWENER wrote...


1. Yeah, I see my Shepard willingly give the base to Cerberus, but it wasn't him? You are so smart.

Ah yes, because you weren't the one controlling him? How supremely intelligent you are. I wish i was as smart as you.

PWENER wrote...
2. Dr. Chakwas explains why Shepard's personality doesn't change even after going through such trauma. This is a mistake, since Shepard's personality does change in the treansition between ME1 to ME2 (I won't explain it, find that out yourself, since you seem too hard headed to listen to anything I would say).

  I've read it, and believe me, you make as much sense as a retarded monkey. Shepard does not exhibit any personality change at all, maybe minor ones but not a major change in character like other great characters in other games and films.

PWENER wrote...
3. Why would Garrus's personality shift effect Shepard at all? They're two different people, what the hell are you talking about? You really make no sense with that statement.

Where did i say Garrus personaility shift  should effect Shepard? Wow seriously, equip your spectacles properly and learn to read, all i did was state how there was a transition with Garrus personality and character between the two games while Shepard showed no change in personality at all, no where did i state his personality should effect Shepards.

I thought your genius intellect in psychology would allow you to be smart enough to realize this, but i guess im starting to see differently.

PWENER wrote...
4. I never said Im a genius by stating Im studying psychology. All I said is that I know a thing or two about personalities and the mind.

No, but you tried to use that position to try to tell me im wrong and you're right.

PWENER wrote...
5. I am a genius though.

Yes, a genius who can't read.

Retarded monkey? Okay, your taking the discussion way too far, Im done with you if this is the direction your going to take. I never insulted you so there is no reason you should start. Im not even going to read the rest of what you wrote if that's how you start communicating with me.

See ya, and be more civil next time.

Dude, learn to read. I never said you're a retarded moneky, i simply said you make as much sense as one. And please, don't try to play innocent when you implied several things earlier.

Im very sensible when it comes to insults. I would never use any insults of any kind (direct or indirect) in any type of discussion. You offended me, and this argumant is over.
 
Oh, Im also an aspiring writer. Writers don't read, we write. 

[Nightwriter]

PWENER wrote...

Just act like Shepard is you, and not how you want Shepard to be, and you'll hit the jackpot really fast.

If your angry at someone, yell at them. If your happy or blissful, react accordingly, and don't do anything you would't do in real life.

Yeah, that's my problem, my Shepard isn't really able to act like me.

I'd be wittier and funnier more often, I would be much calmer and more politically savvy during trials with the Council (humanity came off like raving lunatics), and I'd generally just use more helpings of personality.

[PWENER]

Pocketgb wrote...

PWENER wrote...
I believe I have complete control over my Shepard. I guess everyone experiences it differently.

Have you chosen the 'douchebag' response (i.e. bottom right) when talking to Sha'ira?

lol'd

[PWENER]

Nightwriter wrote...

PWENER wrote...

Just act like Shepard is you, and not how you want Shepard to be, and you'll hit the jackpot really fast.

If your angry at someone, yell at them. If your happy or blissful, react accordingly, and don't do anything you would't do in real life.

Yeah, that's my problem, my Shepard isn't really able to act like me.

I'd be wittier and funnier more often, I would be much calmer and more politically savvy during trials with the Council (humanity came off like raving lunatics), and I'd generally just use more helpings of personality.

I always come out as a raving lunatic, so his personality is really easy to match with mine.

[KainrycKarr]

With as many rpg elements as have already been downplayed in the series, if Shepard was given a more linear personality, I probably wouldn't buy ME3. That's definately a dealbreaker for me.

[PWENER]

KainrycKarr wrote...

With as many rpg elements as have already been downplayed in the series, if Shepard was given a more linear personality, I probably wouldn't buy ME3. That's definately a dealbreaker for me.

This Human understands.

[kalle90]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Shepard is NOT third party character. If you treat him/her like one then their is no development. Stop treating your Shepards as one and you'll have no problem.

I've treated characters like Old snake, Nathan Drake, Niko Bellic, Ethan Mars as third party(well DUH they are!) yet i still find incredible character development within them. Do you get my point? Just because a character is third party, doesn't mean it eliminates the option for character development, trying to fool yourself .. is pretty much futile.

Shepard has essentially ZERO development, example : I can be a paragon in ME1, yet if i still progressed as a paragon in ME2, theres still zero development. Why would shepard logically be a nice noble person despite the brutalities he/she faced at the beginning of ME2? Why would he/she be nice to the council whom shoved the reapers existance at his/her face? So i picked the renegade route and things play out differently, but the character development is still lacking.

Nobody cared about his/her issues(except jacob asking ONE time if you,re female), nobody asked if he/she was doing fine and practically nobody gave a **** about the commander yet he/she is completely fine with being a lapdog for cerberus , boy toy for TIM, previous LI telling him/her to get lost and liara being a dick.

Because Bellic etc. were fully scripted characters (well you could choose to kill or save a couple of people) sure they had character development. Actually it is easiest to have third party characters develop.

That bolded part is just asking to break our role playing. Right now my nice characters have multiple reasons from "they're just good" to "they realize they have no choice". On the other hand some characters were always ruthless or changed to worse after all what happened. And I have no problem making up the character development in my imagination. If Bioware gave some universal reason for being something it would seriously reduce our options.

With the 3rd part I can agree though. It would be nice if squadmates were more interested in Shepard instead of their own problems. Just replacing the "I need to calibrate this" with something more casual smalltalk would go a long way.

[KainrycKarr]

Can we go ahead and NOT mess with one of the few remaining aspects that keeps Mass Effect from becoming a typical shooter?

Modifié par KainrycKarr, 02 septembre 2010 - 06:59 .

[SithLordExarKun]

kalle90 wrote...

SithLordExarKun wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Shepard is NOT third party character. If you treat him/her like one then their is no development. Stop treating your Shepards as one and you'll have no problem.

I've treated characters like Old snake, Nathan Drake, Niko Bellic, Ethan Mars as third party(well DUH they are!) yet i still find incredible character development within them. Do you get my point? Just because a character is third party, doesn't mean it eliminates the option for character development, trying to fool yourself .. is pretty much futile.

Shepard has essentially ZERO development, example : I can be a paragon in ME1, yet if i still progressed as a paragon in ME2, theres still zero development. Why would shepard logically be a nice noble person despite the brutalities he/she faced at the beginning of ME2? Why would he/she be nice to the council whom shoved the reapers existance at his/her face? So i picked the renegade route and things play out differently, but the character development is still lacking.

Nobody cared about his/her issues(except jacob asking ONE time if you,re female), nobody asked if he/she was doing fine and practically nobody gave a **** about the commander yet he/she is completely fine with being a lapdog for cerberus , boy toy for TIM, previous LI telling him/her to get lost and liara being a dick.

Because Bellic etc. were fully scripted characters (well you could choose to kill or save a couple of people) sure they had character development. Actually it is easiest to have third party characters develop.

That bolded part is just asking to break our role playing. Right now my nice characters have multiple reasons from "they're just good" to "they realize they have no choice". On the other hand some characters were always ruthless or changed to worse after all what happened. And I have no problem making up the character development in my imagination. If Bioware gave some universal reason for being something it would seriously reduce our options.

With the 3rd part I can agree though. It would be nice if squadmates were more interested in Shepard instead of their own problems. Just replacing the "I need to calibrate this" with something more casual smalltalk would go a long way.

Remember, im not asking them to completely develop Shepard in their own way where it becomes so restricted.

As for the previous post, about the characters asking Shepard about how he/she feels is what i think would make Shepard a slightly more developed character.

[bzurn]

PWENER wrote...

This is a pointless topic.
....

For someone who claims this is a pointless topic you sure do like to argue your pointless point about said pointless topic.

Modifié par bzurn, 02 septembre 2010 - 04:46 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

Nightwriter wrote...

PWENER wrote...

Just act like Shepard is you, and not how you want Shepard to be, and you'll hit the jackpot really fast.

If your angry at someone, yell at them. If your happy or blissful, react accordingly, and don't do anything you would't do in real life.

Yeah, that's my problem, my Shepard isn't really able to act like me.

I'd be wittier and funnier more often, I would be much calmer and more politically savvy during trials with the Council (humanity came off like raving lunatics), and I'd generally just use more helpings of personality.

I thought Dragon Age did a remarkably good job in shaping your Warden the way you want.

[Inquisitor Recon]

I disagree with that, without any voice or emotion, the Warden always seemed very distant to me.

[Fiery Phoenix]

ReconTeam wrote...

I disagree with that, without any voice or emotion, the Warden always seemed very distant to me.

Mass Effect definitely beats Dragon Age in that particular regard. I was talking more about the options available for you to deal with a situation.

[PWENER]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...

I disagree with that, without any voice or emotion, the Warden always seemed very distant to me.

Mass Effect definitely beats Dragon Age in that particular regard. I was talking more about the options available for you to deal with a situation.

Just another reason why ME beats Dragon Age in every aspect of bothe games.

Me: 1

My collegue friends: 0

[Sable Phoenix]

I think what people are really asking for when they say "character development" here is seeing some of Shepard's vulnerability.  Shepard's a single human with unimaginable pressures and traumas. Carrying the weight of all organic life in the galaxy on your shoulders and dying and being resurrected alone would be enough to break most people, to say nothing of a potentially traumatic early life, and Shepard typically sails along without seeming to really be aware of these things, much less affected by them.  Frankly, most of the time Shepard seems as cold and implacable as the Reapers themselves, more a force than a person.  Granted that is part of the character that is a necessary projection of such pressures, but the chinks in the armor just don't show themselves, and nobody can maintain that kind of mental armor indefinitely.  This is what made the Normandy lockdown scene in the first Mass Effect, where even Shepard's own locker is inaccessible and the player gets to see humanity's champion slump against it in defeat (if only temporary), so memorable.  Even better is that another squad member will acknowledge this and, for once, take up the cheerleader-******-sensei role that Shepard usually plays.

In Mass Effect 2, something like this could have been handled easily by including a scene after the romance fade-to-black, we'd had Shepard waking up in bed and sitting up to see the LI has just finished dressing (in a nice reversal of the similar scene in ME1), and then had a conversation where Shepard could have finally opened up to SOMEONE about the feelings that would have to follow from dying, losing the Normandy and two years, the pressures of saving all life, etc., and wrap it up by expressing the fears of the mission/failure and either a fatalistic attitude or a renewed determination and courage.  Not only would it add more depth to the romance subplot than just "rawr hot (possibly alien) sex", it would flesh out the human vulnerabilities that every good protagonist has.  And perhaps, if Shepard had not struck up a romance with anyone, we could have seen a contemplative scene, such as walking slowly through the captain's cabin touching the things accumulated through the course of the mission (concentrating on the LI photo if applicable), which would bring up a dialogue wheel with six conversation options, like "Talk to Samara/Thane/Miranda/Mordin/Tali/Garrus", followed by Shepard heading to their respective parts of the ship in search of a bit of personal support.

Even if we had just had that one scene, I doubt we would see many threads on this subject.

Modifié par Sable Phoenix, 02 septembre 2010 - 05:27 .