189 réponses à ce sujet

[Saibh]

AlexXIV wrote...

How is Alistair's reaction not unreasonable? He doesn't just object to letting Loghain live, he deserts! He is a deserter. If he was reasonable he would have disagreed but stayed for the battle, but he doesn't. He runs away like a stupid little kid. And obviously afterwards he never finds any better use in his life than being drunk all day. My understanding of the word reasonable is a bit different there.

Character flaws. People have 'em. He was not wrong to want Loghain dead. So he wanted the crown to ensure it. You wouldn't give it to him, so he felt he had no choice but to leave.

[ImoenBaby]

AlexXIV wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Heh if I am honest, I liked Alistair up to the point at the landsmeet where he loses sympathy of most people I think. I guess that's what you mean by self-righteous as well. So would be one who actually like him myself to that point, but I never looked at him the same after this. He turned from funny to dumba...

This is off-topic but.. what? He wants to kill Loghain after he betrayed the King, wiped out the Grey Wardens for his own ambition, labeled you and Alistair as criminals, (if human noble) helped orchestrate the destruction of the Couslands, poisoned Arl Eamon (a father figure for Alistair), tried killing you dozens of times over. Maybe it's just me but I don't think that's dumb to want the guy butchered.

Edit: Selling elves (if an elf).

Well your point of view.

My point of view is that Loghain did many things wrong but he admitted it and was ready to make up, even die in battle or whatever. Alistair was just acting like a dumb kid who could not see the advantage of having a general of Loghain's abilitly. What do you think, how many people would not have died just because of the advantage of having Loghain, I mean if it was realistic, not just in a game. And, is it worth that people die just to satisfy one man's revenge? Duncan is dead and I am sure he would rather have Loghain fighting Darkspawn than dying for nothing. Sorry, but I think like a Grey Warden here, like Riordan, like Duncan, but not like Alistair, because at this point it turns out Alsistair has never really been a Grey Warden, he was more like Cailan - dreaming of legends instead of facing facts. Grey Warden's don't care about crimes before they became Grey Wardens, the ritual binds them to the Darkspawn. And at Loghain's age he would go to his calling rather sooner than later afterwards. And maybe he could even learn enough about the Grey Wardens in the rest of his life that made him clear how grave his mistake was. But that's something Alistair wouldn't understand, because he is just a kid.

WHAT? LOL, I don't think any of Loghain's crimes fall under "point of view". Those things happened - they're facts. Alistair's reaction to them - which everyone debates - would be natural and expected of almost anyone. Think about that character. 

And "dreaming of legends instead of facing facts"? Really? When --  

--Actually, you know what? THIS is what's so awesome about Dragon Age. Hah!  

[Shadow_broker]

What's with all the threads appealing to female audience....

Time to make the MAN THREAD it'll be full of monster trucks and bethany, maybe even some flemmeth

[Daewan]

Jynthor wrote...

I'm not a woman but as a man I say Alistair is cute.(Am I the only man here who romanced him and liked it?)

So I can see why they like him.

Nope, but my perspective might be a bit skewed.

[Mehow_pwn]

Shadow_broker wrote...

What's with all the threads appealing to female audience....
Time to make the MAN THREAD it'll be full of monster trucks and bethany, maybe even some flemmeth

I am acutally planing to merge it something like... " What do women and men like about dragon age"

Or yeah I'm just gone make another thread ( dont you dare steal it )

[Lisa_H]

Patriciachr34 wrote...

Addendum: It always bothers me that people get upset when Alistair gets angry at sparing Loghain. Loghain was responsible for killing Alistair's father figure and all of his friends. He let his king die. He allowed slavery, torture, and nearly destroyed everything that made Ferelden, Ferelden. Then you decide to let Loghain live and call Alistair whiny and self righteous for objecting. I find this consistent lack of empathy for your comrade in arms both sad and disturbing.

I agree. Alistair had good reasons for wanting Loghain dead. If you play as a human noble he also played a part in the murder of your own family.

[ciaweth]

I was going to reply to this topic's question, but by the time I had an answer ready, the thread had devolved into the 13 billionth argument about Alistair.

[Ciryx]

@shadow



no, spare me the man thread. Besides, u know how we males talk to each other!



Hmmm! - Hrmph... - Rly? Hm - Hmmm? - Hmpf.



Tis not remotly as funny.

[AlexXIV]

leonia42 wrote...

If Maric had been alive, he and Loghain would have won the battle at Ostagar.

That's debatable but it's a possibility. He probably wouldn't have put either Cailan or Alistair in danger so if he did end up dieing there were two back-up heirs. And would Loghain have been so willing to retreat if it had been Maric on the field instead of Cailan?

But since that's not how the story goes, it's just speculation.

Well yes it is speculation, but Loghain said himself he thought Cailan was a kid playing war, obsessed with legends. And Loghain was not willing to let his troups die for this 'foolishness' (from his point of view). Loghain wouldn't have thought of Maric being foolish and probably rather have died than betraying his king-friend. But Cailan wouldn't even listen to Loghain. Duncan himself said that Cailan thinks that the Grey Warden legend alone makes them invincible. Well he was wrong, and we don't know if Loghain's soldiers could have turned the battle. Loghain obviously didn't think so.

[Anarya]

Shadow_broker wrote...

What's with all the threads appealing to female audience....
Time to make the MAN THREAD it'll be full of monster trucks and bethany, maybe even some flemmeth

And here you thought there was no point to us bringing up the boob issue. Look, now there's a dialogue regarding gender-specific issues in gaming. Guys on this board are starting to ask questions and care about the responses. Progress! 

Baby steps and all that.

[Leonia]

Ciryx wrote...

@shadow

no, spare me the man thread. Besides, u know how we males talk to each other!

Hmmm! - Hrmph... - Rly? Hm - Hmmm? - Hmpf.

Tis not remotly as funny.

I giggled, a little. For what it's worth :happy:

[ninja0809]

Captain Hex wrote...
 As for why women like him, I can only speak for myself. I like him because he's cute and adorably awkward. A man appears more genuine when he is stumbling over his own words a little, and his interest seems more genuine when he gets a little shy around you.

Alistair, on the other hand would like to woo you and fawn over you... He just doesn't know how. So he makes stupid jokes and blushes a lot and gives you roses. And it's adorable.

Really? That pretty much sounds like how i reacted on my first date back in the days.
Unfortunately my date thought i was an idiot.

[Mehow_pwn]

Well after reading all does opnion I can least have some conclusion about how women think about gaming and some movies I all the women that I know might have the same opnion on some things as you thank you

And I'm woundering something

What do you think about the trailer having no women as main or sub main charcter ( dragon age 2 trailer)

Modifié par Mehow_pwn, 31 août 2010 - 06:00 .

[AlexXIV]

ImoenBaby wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Heh if I am honest, I liked Alistair up to the point at the landsmeet where he loses sympathy of most people I think. I guess that's what you mean by self-righteous as well. So would be one who actually like him myself to that point, but I never looked at him the same after this. He turned from funny to dumba...

This is off-topic but.. what? He wants to kill Loghain after he betrayed the King, wiped out the Grey Wardens for his own ambition, labeled you and Alistair as criminals, (if human noble) helped orchestrate the destruction of the Couslands, poisoned Arl Eamon (a father figure for Alistair), tried killing you dozens of times over. Maybe it's just me but I don't think that's dumb to want the guy butchered.

Edit: Selling elves (if an elf).

Well your point of view.

My point of view is that Loghain did many things wrong but he admitted it and was ready to make up, even die in battle or whatever. Alistair was just acting like a dumb kid who could not see the advantage of having a general of Loghain's abilitly. What do you think, how many people would not have died just because of the advantage of having Loghain, I mean if it was realistic, not just in a game. And, is it worth that people die just to satisfy one man's revenge? Duncan is dead and I am sure he would rather have Loghain fighting Darkspawn than dying for nothing. Sorry, but I think like a Grey Warden here, like Riordan, like Duncan, but not like Alistair, because at this point it turns out Alsistair has never really been a Grey Warden, he was more like Cailan - dreaming of legends instead of facing facts. Grey Warden's don't care about crimes before they became Grey Wardens, the ritual binds them to the Darkspawn. And at Loghain's age he would go to his calling rather sooner than later afterwards. And maybe he could even learn enough about the Grey Wardens in the rest of his life that made him clear how grave his mistake was. But that's something Alistair wouldn't understand, because he is just a kid.

WHAT? LOL, I don't think any of Loghain's crimes fall under "point of view". Those things happened - they're facts. Alistair's reaction to them - which everyone debates - would be natural and expected of almost anyone. Think about that character. 

And "dreaming of legends instead of facing facts"? Really? When --  

--Actually, you know what? THIS is what's so awesome about Dragon Age. Hah!  

Well DA is dark fantasy. The truth there is usually more dirty and the shiny white knights without flaws don't exist.

[Ciryx]

Mehow_pwn wrote...

Well after reading all does opnion I can least have some conclusion about how women think about gaming thank you

And I'm woundering something

What do you think about the trailer having no women as main or sub main charcter ( dragon age 2 trailer)

Theres Flemeth as the Narator! And shes an Evil Hag!

... wait, tis not what i ment! Wait! Stop!

ahhh *runs off*

[Reaverwind]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Being repentant doesn't always mean you deserve forgiveness. Loghain is a murderer, a traitor, and mentally unstable, especially when you consider he does a complete and very abrupt 180 after only beating him in combat. As a matter of pure prgmatism, I would have prefered to spare him and make him do the ritual and make him die killing the arch-demon, and I still wouldn't consider him redeemed. However, with Alistairs reaction (which is not unreasonable) it no longer holds any practicality at all. Better to side with Alistiar whom you are already familiar with and know you can trust, as opposed to the obviously unstable Loghain.

Loghain's being repentant is a non-issue. Grey Wardens don't dispense redemption and salvation - they look for those that'll best serve their cause - and Loghain doesn't exactly fit the bill due to his age. I really dislike how the enitre Landsmeet plays out anyway - I consider it farsical to force a choice between bringing Loghain on board or keeping Alistair.

[Lisa_H]

Mehow_pwn wrote...

What do you think about the trailer having no women as main or sub main charcter ( dragon age 2 trailer)

I can only speak for myself, but I don't like it. I would love to see Lady Hawke in the marketing. I would like to see both versions of hawke in the trailers

[Mehow_pwn]

Ciryx wrote...

Mehow_pwn wrote...

Well after reading all does opnion I can least have some conclusion about how women think about gaming thank you

And I'm woundering something

What do you think about the trailer having no women as main or sub main charcter ( dragon age 2 trailer)

Theres Flemeth as the Narator! And shes an Evil Hag!

... wait, tis not what i ment! Wait! Stop!

ahhh *runs off*

Acutally I didn't thinik about flemmeth as Narator doh

[AlexXIV]

Mehow_pwn wrote...

Ciryx wrote...

Mehow_pwn wrote...

Well after reading all does opnion I can least have some conclusion about how women think about gaming thank you

And I'm woundering something

What do you think about the trailer having no women as main or sub main charcter ( dragon age 2 trailer)

Theres Flemeth as the Narator! And shes an Evil Hag!

... wait, tis not what i ment! Wait! Stop!

ahhh *runs off*

Acutally I didn't thinik about flemmeth as Narator doh

And maybe some of the templars the Qunari killed were females.

[Leonia]

Reaverwind wrote...
Loghain's being repentant is a non-issue. Grey Wardens don't dispense redemption and salvation - they look for those that'll best serve their cause - and Loghain doesn't exactly fit the bill due to his age. I really dislike how the enitre Landsmeet plays out anyway - I consider it farsical to force a choice between bringing Loghain on board or keeping Alistair.

Speaking of choosing between Loghain and Alistair.. I was digging through the Toolset not too long ago and saw that there was dialogue between them for the Return to Ostagar DLC. Slightly off topic but I thought that was a bit interesting.

On topic: None of the marketting (including the Destiny trailer) has really bothered me at all regarding Dragon Age 2. Not even Bethany's huge tracts of land. I am anxious to see Bioware's version of Lady Hawke, sure, but I'm not fussed about it really. 

Modifié par leonia42, 31 août 2010 - 06:07 .

[Mehow_pwn]

Lisa_H wrote...

Mehow_pwn wrote...

What do you think about the trailer having no women as main or sub main charcter ( dragon age 2 trailer)

I can only speak for myself, but I don't like it. I would love to see Lady Hawke in the marketing. I would like to see both versions of hawke in the trailers

But techinally the trailer does have all you need "hawk" well almost :innocent:


So you dont think hawk is attractive?

Or is just that you want a women hacking up that qunari?

[the_one_54321]

Reaverwind wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
Being repentant doesn't always mean you deserve forgiveness. Loghain is a murderer, a traitor, and mentally unstable, especially when you consider he does a complete and very abrupt 180 after only beating him in combat. As a matter of pure prgmatism, I would have prefered to spare him and make him do the ritual and make him die killing the arch-demon, and I still wouldn't consider him redeemed. However, with Alistairs reaction (which is not unreasonable) it no longer holds any practicality at all. Better to side with Alistiar whom you are already familiar with and know you can trust, as opposed to the obviously unstable Loghain.

Loghain's being repentant is a non-issue. Grey Wardens don't dispense redemption and salvation - they look for those that'll best serve their cause - and Loghain doesn't exactly fit the bill due to his age. I really dislike how the enitre Landsmeet plays out anyway - I consider it farsical to force a choice between bringing Loghain on board or keeping Alistair.

I agree, mostly. I just think it becomes clearly impractical once it becomes apparent that Alistair will leave or die if you spare Loghain. At that point the obvious better decision is to kill Loghain and keep Alistair. This will make stopping the blight more likely than if you spare Loghain and lose Alistair.

[Ciryx]

Most awesome thing are you Gals and Guys anyhow!



Tis so amazing that a game manages to get people together from all over the world to discuss various topics and thus bringing so many people together!



Tis one of the most amazing things about Dragon Age if i am honest!

[ImoenBaby]

the_one_54321 wrote...

ImoenBaby wrote...
I can see a young fella asking this, because some young girls and women won't make the first direct move on a guy.  But if you're into replaying DA:O, try a female character and find out. It won't kill you.

How young do you think is young? I'm 26. Where I'm from women making the "first move" is rare at any age. It's a cultural thing.

26 is young, but not very.
 
I'm almost 31, and live in Canada. It's normal here for women to express their interest in men, although they might do it differently. But I do think many men still feel obligated to make the first move, and carry this modest burden as well as they can. And I bet these men feel pleasantly relieved/refreshed when women are more direct.

Anyway, enough off topicness.  Apologies. Any further off topic = pm or different forum.   

[AlexXIV]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Reaverwind wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
Being repentant doesn't always mean you deserve forgiveness. Loghain is a murderer, a traitor, and mentally unstable, especially when you consider he does a complete and very abrupt 180 after only beating him in combat. As a matter of pure prgmatism, I would have prefered to spare him and make him do the ritual and make him die killing the arch-demon, and I still wouldn't consider him redeemed. However, with Alistairs reaction (which is not unreasonable) it no longer holds any practicality at all. Better to side with Alistiar whom you are already familiar with and know you can trust, as opposed to the obviously unstable Loghain.

Loghain's being repentant is a non-issue. Grey Wardens don't dispense redemption and salvation - they look for those that'll best serve their cause - and Loghain doesn't exactly fit the bill due to his age. I really dislike how the enitre Landsmeet plays out anyway - I consider it farsical to force a choice between bringing Loghain on board or keeping Alistair.

I agree, mostly. I just think it becomes clearly impractical once it becomes apparent that Alistair will leave or die if you spare Loghain. At that point the obvious better decision is to kill Loghain and keep Alistair. This will make stopping the blight more likely than if you spare Loghain and lose Alistair.

Well that Alistair leaves is his choice not yours. Only thing I sometimes let Loghain die is taht I really can't stand Anora.