Are you sure about that Eddy C? People use override versions of armors/item models when the want to be able to see them in all campaigns they play. Doesn't that indicate that haks fall under the override's authority?
Legacy of White Plume Mountain: Released
Débuté par
WyrinDnjargo
, août 31 2010 06:10
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#27
Posté 03 septembre 2010 - 11:59
E.C.Patterson
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It is my experience that override trumps global (ie default) resources, but not hak. This allows builders to control what can get overriden. I vaguely remember a NWN2 wiki entry about precendence but can`t track it down.
#28
Posté 04 septembre 2010 - 12:26
Eguintir Eligard
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really that is wack ! an override that doesnt override. 
#29
Posté 04 septembre 2010 - 02:22
Shallina
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But it can be usefull.
For stuff you want to be able to overide in the ovveride folder you use Campaign folder and module folder. For stuff you don't want to overide you use hack.
Everything cannot work together and with those mecanics, you can have some control over what could break your mod.
For exemple someone who want to use custom spell and remain ok with Kaedrin. Beeing able to link the 2da in a hak is a good thing.
For stuff you want to be able to overide in the ovveride folder you use Campaign folder and module folder. For stuff you don't want to overide you use hack.
Everything cannot work together and with those mecanics, you can have some control over what could break your mod.
For exemple someone who want to use custom spell and remain ok with Kaedrin. Beeing able to link the 2da in a hak is a good thing.
#31
Posté 15 septembre 2010 - 09:30
Haplose
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This module is hugely addictive!
I'm having great fun playing it!
Excellent level design and overall feel.
Really, this is what SoZ should have been. Moving the skillchecks from the OM random drops to quest instance hidden caches, resources, ingredients also feels right.
So far I've only made through 3 quest locations and reached level 9, so I haven't seem that much yet. But I'm loving what I'm seeing.
Well, I do have three issues, two general and one specific:
1. Seems like available equipment is too powerfull. I'm resisting the temptation to craft, as it seems like with it my party would be hugely overpowered. It's not too difficult as is (though some fight are really great, like the meeting with Thayans in their tower by the Gnoll mines).
2. Getting through the Gnoll Mines was a pain. I had repetetive crashes to desktop on the 3 middle levels.
3. It was also a pain due to the encounter design - hordes of very weak mobs behind every corner.
I prefer to play using the semi-turn based mode of TonyK's AI, as it gives me full control over my party, but I finally had to give up and rush through the mines - both due to the crashes and these hordes. It was just too slow. It's really better suited to challenging encounters.
These weak mobs with bows worked pretty well outside, I thought they were cool, but going through a 5 level dungeon with 4 floors full of them, with the game crashing all the time was a bit much.
At least the final two levels were great (as well as the area outside and the Thayan Tower) and the final encounter also very enjoyable. So this quest was a bit of love-hate mixup.
Overall I'm really looking forward to seeing what awaits me further! It's getting difficult not playing this module
Thank you for your great work, Wyrin!
I'm having great fun playing it!
Excellent level design and overall feel.
Really, this is what SoZ should have been. Moving the skillchecks from the OM random drops to quest instance hidden caches, resources, ingredients also feels right.
So far I've only made through 3 quest locations and reached level 9, so I haven't seem that much yet. But I'm loving what I'm seeing.
Well, I do have three issues, two general and one specific:
1. Seems like available equipment is too powerfull. I'm resisting the temptation to craft, as it seems like with it my party would be hugely overpowered. It's not too difficult as is (though some fight are really great, like the meeting with Thayans in their tower by the Gnoll mines).
2. Getting through the Gnoll Mines was a pain. I had repetetive crashes to desktop on the 3 middle levels.
3. It was also a pain due to the encounter design - hordes of very weak mobs behind every corner.
I prefer to play using the semi-turn based mode of TonyK's AI, as it gives me full control over my party, but I finally had to give up and rush through the mines - both due to the crashes and these hordes. It was just too slow. It's really better suited to challenging encounters.
These weak mobs with bows worked pretty well outside, I thought they were cool, but going through a 5 level dungeon with 4 floors full of them, with the game crashing all the time was a bit much.
At least the final two levels were great (as well as the area outside and the Thayan Tower) and the final encounter also very enjoyable. So this quest was a bit of love-hate mixup.
Overall I'm really looking forward to seeing what awaits me further! It's getting difficult not playing this module
Thank you for your great work, Wyrin!
Modifié par Haplose, 15 septembre 2010 - 09:32 .
#32
Posté 15 septembre 2010 - 05:33
Quixal
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I am inclined to agree that there is both too much gear dropping and that some of it is over the top in terms of power level. There are reasons for some of it to be there though, as you will discover. My solution to the excessive gear availability is to make sure my wand of frost is fully charged at all times.Haplose wrote...
1. Seems like available equipment is too powerfull. I'm resisting the temptation to craft, as it seems like with it my party would be hugely overpowered.
I fear this area is somewhat infamous, among the playtesters at least. I have only ever managed to get through it once due to constant crashing. Hopefully Wyrin will be able to find and eliminate the cause at some point but for now I recommend just skipping the mines themselves. Don't let yourself get too frustrated with a small corner of an otherwise fantastic mod.Haplose wrote...
2. Getting through the Gnoll Mines was a pain. I had repetetive crashes to desktop on the 3 middle levels.
Modifié par Quixal, 15 septembre 2010 - 05:35 .
#33
Posté 15 septembre 2010 - 07:36
dunniteowl
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I did say to all who'd listen that Legacy of White Plume Mountain, was, in my opinion, the best module so far that I have ever played in NWN2. It's got a very old school feel to it while it manages to keep the pace going for the NWN2 style of combat action and movement.
Dead Gnoll's Eye Socket mines was fraught with CTDs for me as well. I still believe it's something to do with some of the triggers and the walkmesh helpers, but I can't explain why I think that. A gut feeling call it. That said, I did manage to complete that quest successfully once I got out of the 3rd level. I only had crashing on the 3rd level of this section of the module.
I also hope that the slowing down effect on the West Passage of White Plume Mountain has been fixed. The problem as it was, was that an area had a slippery/icy floor and if you failed your check you slowed down (right? like sliding and then having to creep along on an icy surface) and unfortunately the check seemed to be additive as well as Permanent. That was something reported by several during testing and I believe it's been corrected, but don't recall it being determined to be so explicitly. (Meaning I never heard or recall of someone saying, "Ah, got it, I fixed this [insert proper comment here] and now it's fine." )
All in all, though, I don't see too many folks NOT liking this module. It really does have a bit of something to enjoy for about 85% of the player base (I say 85% to account for folks who are heavy RP and can't have anything less, as well as for those few folks that seem to cry if there's no romances to be had.)
This is the "Must Play" Module of NWN2 in my opinion.
Great Job, Wyrin!
dunniteowl
Dead Gnoll's Eye Socket mines was fraught with CTDs for me as well. I still believe it's something to do with some of the triggers and the walkmesh helpers, but I can't explain why I think that. A gut feeling call it. That said, I did manage to complete that quest successfully once I got out of the 3rd level. I only had crashing on the 3rd level of this section of the module.
I also hope that the slowing down effect on the West Passage of White Plume Mountain has been fixed. The problem as it was, was that an area had a slippery/icy floor and if you failed your check you slowed down (right? like sliding and then having to creep along on an icy surface) and unfortunately the check seemed to be additive as well as Permanent. That was something reported by several during testing and I believe it's been corrected, but don't recall it being determined to be so explicitly. (Meaning I never heard or recall of someone saying, "Ah, got it, I fixed this [insert proper comment here] and now it's fine." )
All in all, though, I don't see too many folks NOT liking this module. It really does have a bit of something to enjoy for about 85% of the player base (I say 85% to account for folks who are heavy RP and can't have anything less, as well as for those few folks that seem to cry if there's no romances to be had.)
This is the "Must Play" Module of NWN2 in my opinion.
Great Job, Wyrin!
dunniteowl
#34
Posté 15 septembre 2010 - 10:02
WyrinDnjargo
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Thanks guys!
Equipment - well, I'm catering to a wie range of levels, and as I wanted to give players a drop-in-drop-out sandbox, where PCs may do one quest then be exported for something else, or multiplayers may just do one quest, I didn't worry too much about their power level. That, and the original PnP module gives very low level PCs obscene items! I'm always of the view that if a player finds having an item is making something too easy for them, they can always not use it - sell it or liquify it using Quixal's Patented Electrifier
DGES is bugged and due an overhaul, so thanks for sticking it out, but my advice is avoid until I can iron out what's going on. This weekend I'm going back over this and may cut down on the number of levels and overhaul the encounters there.
dno - slippery floor should now be fixed and only apply to players on the polished marble.
Thanks for playing Haplose, and hope you enjoy the other encounters areas. Sounds like you're ready for the mountain itself (initial levels may be easier for you now, but later stuff should prove fun). I'm keen to her how people found the final confrontation with Keraptis!
Equipment - well, I'm catering to a wie range of levels, and as I wanted to give players a drop-in-drop-out sandbox, where PCs may do one quest then be exported for something else, or multiplayers may just do one quest, I didn't worry too much about their power level. That, and the original PnP module gives very low level PCs obscene items! I'm always of the view that if a player finds having an item is making something too easy for them, they can always not use it - sell it or liquify it using Quixal's Patented Electrifier
DGES is bugged and due an overhaul, so thanks for sticking it out, but my advice is avoid until I can iron out what's going on. This weekend I'm going back over this and may cut down on the number of levels and overhaul the encounters there.
dno - slippery floor should now be fixed and only apply to players on the polished marble.
Thanks for playing Haplose, and hope you enjoy the other encounters areas. Sounds like you're ready for the mountain itself (initial levels may be easier for you now, but later stuff should prove fun). I'm keen to her how people found the final confrontation with Keraptis!
#35
Posté 16 septembre 2010 - 03:06
E.C.Patterson
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Quixal wrote...
I am inclined to agree that there is both too much gear dropping and that some of it is over the top in terms of power level.
Funny, I was just thinking somewhat the opposite. For once, I was hoping for more loot so I could sell it off. I'm having difficulty saving much money as I`m using most of it on basic, necessary consumables and run of the mill equipment upgrades. Not much I found so far I consider over the top, though I just found a sweet warhammer for my warhammer specialist
. I think I`ll keep that one... 
Modifié par E.C.Patterson, 16 septembre 2010 - 03:21 .
#36
Posté 16 septembre 2010 - 07:15
Haplose
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Well, different strokes for different folks I guess 
I'm not using many consumables myself. With a battle Bard and a Favoured Soul in the party I don't need much. But I like to be self-sufficient and in general have very low consumable consumption in my games. I guess the fact that I'm using Kaedrins pack (for the first time! ) and do a bit of powerbuilding also helps (though I am somewhat gimped on the arcane magic front with an Arcane Trickster who just recently got level 3 spells). Well for me planning and building is sometimes almost as fun as actually playing the game
I did buy some healing kits and a few scrolls of Stone to Flesh plus Raise Dead, just in case.
Wyrin: Yes, I was just thinking myself that it's time to check the mountain out. Looking forward to it!
As for DGES it seemed to me that the side, non-combat path was especially buggy. Couldn't really get through the rock entrances, as the game always crushed, even after only opening the way (when it mostly crushed on area transitions otherwise - though not only).
It's a bit of a shame to cut the number of levels, as they are very nicely designed (well, playing "over the shoulder", at least you get to appreaciate the mist and lighting and the overall design, the strategic modes don't look nearly as good - but that's true for all NWN2 content).
Also having so many levels really adds to the feeling of getting deep underground. But definately an overhaul would be in order.
I'm not using many consumables myself. With a battle Bard and a Favoured Soul in the party I don't need much. But I like to be self-sufficient and in general have very low consumable consumption in my games. I guess the fact that I'm using Kaedrins pack (for the first time!
) and do a bit of powerbuilding also helps (though I am somewhat gimped on the arcane magic front with an Arcane Trickster who just recently got level 3 spells). Well for me planning and building is sometimes almost as fun as actually playing the game I did buy some healing kits and a few scrolls of Stone to Flesh plus Raise Dead, just in case.
Wyrin: Yes, I was just thinking myself that it's time to check the mountain out. Looking forward to it!
As for DGES it seemed to me that the side, non-combat path was especially buggy. Couldn't really get through the rock entrances, as the game always crushed, even after only opening the way (when it mostly crushed on area transitions otherwise - though not only).
It's a bit of a shame to cut the number of levels, as they are very nicely designed (well, playing "over the shoulder", at least you get to appreaciate the mist and lighting and the overall design, the strategic modes don't look nearly as good - but that's true for all NWN2 content).
Also having so many levels really adds to the feeling of getting deep underground. But definately an overhaul would be in order.
Modifié par Haplose, 16 septembre 2010 - 07:16 .
#37
Posté 16 septembre 2010 - 09:44
Gilradthegreat
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Have you made any changes to the equipment availability since I playtested? Generally the issue I found was the underdark merchants enabled a party to fully outfit themselves with epic-level equipment starting after completing only two dungeons. One way to address this is to reduce the maximum sale price the merchants allow, which could make it a bit more of a daunting task to save up for that +10 belt of strength. Another solution would be to remove many of the redundant entries, so instead of equipping my party with a +10, +8, and +6 belt of strength, I would only have the +10 to hand out to a party member. This also applies to Boots of the Sun Soul, where basically each member that invests in use magic device gets such a high boost to their AC they become untouchable (on top of full plate, shield, amulet of AC etc).
Also, don't know if you have addressed this yet, but the availability of items with "immunity: mind affecting" also plays a large part in the difficulty of the mod. Basically, after I ran across the steins that gave mind affecting-immunity (a set of three, enough for a party with the addition of an umber hulk shield), battles against spellcasters became cakewalks, as they were no longer capable of using their most devastating spells, and would mostly spend some time buffing up, then throwing magic missiles and cones of cold.
Of course, these are all pre-release impressions. I haven't had time to run through your release version, but I eagerly look forward to it!
Also, don't know if you have addressed this yet, but the availability of items with "immunity: mind affecting" also plays a large part in the difficulty of the mod. Basically, after I ran across the steins that gave mind affecting-immunity (a set of three, enough for a party with the addition of an umber hulk shield), battles against spellcasters became cakewalks, as they were no longer capable of using their most devastating spells, and would mostly spend some time buffing up, then throwing magic missiles and cones of cold.
Of course, these are all pre-release impressions. I haven't had time to run through your release version, but I eagerly look forward to it!
#38
Posté 16 septembre 2010 - 10:31
WyrinDnjargo
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@haplose - I know what you mean - I love the character building aspect too. For DGES, I may just remove all the triggers (so no skill check bark strings) as they seem to be making it unstable. I have some ideas to flesh out the lower regions of the mines with new critters actually, so I'll see how that goes. How did the final encounter in the mines work for you?
@Gilradthegreat - it's a balance, IMO, between offering the items for players as a reward for completing the other quests, and still providing a challenge. I don't want people to do a sidequest, and no feel they've benefitted to tackle other quests. And also many players don't look to pick up Boots of the Sun Soul for all the party - so I'm catering to different player mindsets too. However, I didn't realise there were so many steins (from the Delzoun tomb?) so may have to check on that. Underdark merchant items I thought were still pretty pricey, but never played with appraise skill to see how much it varied. But again, my goal in this was to provide the player with everything to build the PC/party they wanted whatever the class, so I'm loathe to restrict item availability too much. I guess if you find having a certain item is spoiling the challenge for you, try converting into wand charges.
That said, I think people could try to do this campaign like the old BG challenges - solo with different classes, bard only parties, restricted equipment etc... if people can do this with only +1 magic equipment I'd be impressed.
One conscious design decision I took was not to make creatures randomly immune to spells. It bugs me that as a 'balance' option in the OC/MotB/SoZ they basically admit certain spells are broken by making boss creature immune to IGMS, Bigby's ___Ful Appendage etc... there's not much precedent for that in PnP and I didn't like that as a balancing option - I'd rather use spell resistance.
I always figured the Sarrukh ruins would be the toughest challenge, but I'd be interested to hear how players ranked the quests themselves
@Gilradthegreat - it's a balance, IMO, between offering the items for players as a reward for completing the other quests, and still providing a challenge. I don't want people to do a sidequest, and no feel they've benefitted to tackle other quests. And also many players don't look to pick up Boots of the Sun Soul for all the party - so I'm catering to different player mindsets too. However, I didn't realise there were so many steins (from the Delzoun tomb?) so may have to check on that. Underdark merchant items I thought were still pretty pricey, but never played with appraise skill to see how much it varied. But again, my goal in this was to provide the player with everything to build the PC/party they wanted whatever the class, so I'm loathe to restrict item availability too much. I guess if you find having a certain item is spoiling the challenge for you, try converting into wand charges.
That said, I think people could try to do this campaign like the old BG challenges - solo with different classes, bard only parties, restricted equipment etc... if people can do this with only +1 magic equipment I'd be impressed.
One conscious design decision I took was not to make creatures randomly immune to spells. It bugs me that as a 'balance' option in the OC/MotB/SoZ they basically admit certain spells are broken by making boss creature immune to IGMS, Bigby's ___Ful Appendage etc... there's not much precedent for that in PnP and I didn't like that as a balancing option - I'd rather use spell resistance.
I always figured the Sarrukh ruins would be the toughest challenge, but I'd be interested to hear how players ranked the quests themselves
#39
Posté 16 septembre 2010 - 11:42
ArtEChoke
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WPM feels more like an official professionally designed expansion than SoZ.
Excellent, excellent, excellent work, Wyrin. Killed 4 or 5 nights (I can't remember, didn't sleep much).
I had such a damn good time.
Excellent, excellent, excellent work, Wyrin. Killed 4 or 5 nights (I can't remember, didn't sleep much).
I had such a damn good time.
Modifié par ArtEChoke, 16 septembre 2010 - 11:42 .
#40
Posté 16 septembre 2010 - 01:45
Quixal
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Indeed. High or low loot level is a matter of taste. Neither choice is wrong. Really the only area I think it truly hurts the mod is that there are items listed as artifacts and in some cases they come across as run-of-the-mill compared to other items one can find or buy.
/is less concerned with what can be bought as one simply has to choose not to buy something to not have it
As to what areas involve the toughest fighting, I would say the Sarukh ruins and... umm... The Cave of Salvatore if you decide to take both groups on at once. A fun fight since you are effectively outflanked from the start.
/is less concerned with what can be bought as one simply has to choose not to buy something to not have it
As to what areas involve the toughest fighting, I would say the Sarukh ruins and... umm... The Cave of Salvatore if you decide to take both groups on at once. A fun fight since you are effectively outflanked from the start.
Modifié par Quixal, 16 septembre 2010 - 01:46 .
#41
Posté 16 septembre 2010 - 02:11
WyrinDnjargo
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Hehe of course how could I forget the Cave of Salvatore...
#42
Posté 17 septembre 2010 - 06:02
Nihlar
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Just wanted to let everyone know that this module really rocks! It has lots of the components I've been missing in both NWN and NWN2.
I'm playing it in multiplayer together with my wife and a friend. So far everything MP works nicely. As we play once a week, the following weeks will be interersing from both from a gaming and a MP-debug perspective. The only thing we found that could be better for a MP-party is that not pop up the conversatin for all players when presenting a conversation that isn't important that everyone see togheter. Merchants for example. I'll be back with a report.
I'm playing it in multiplayer together with my wife and a friend. So far everything MP works nicely. As we play once a week, the following weeks will be interersing from both from a gaming and a MP-debug perspective. The only thing we found that could be better for a MP-party is that not pop up the conversatin for all players when presenting a conversation that isn't important that everyone see togheter. Merchants for example. I'll be back with a report.
#43
Posté 17 septembre 2010 - 11:52
Name Goes Here
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Hey Wyrin, thanks for a great mod. I've been playing on one of your pre-release versions and now I've run into some transition problems in Dragotha's lair (crashes when I try to descend through one exit and the other one doesn't work). Can I fix this by updating to the release version?
BTW, the mod really is excellent, so if you're thinking about it you really should play it.
Edit: this is ridiculous
I've been stuck there for about 10 days and of course the issue resolves itself right after I have posted here to get some help I don't know if it is in any way related, but the transition worked fine after I had levelled up my character (which I hadn't done earlier). So I guess I don't need help anymore Back to playing your great mod!
BTW, the mod really is excellent, so if you're thinking about it you really should play it.
Edit: this is ridiculous
I've been stuck there for about 10 days and of course the issue resolves itself right after I have posted here to get some help I don't know if it is in any way related, but the transition worked fine after I had levelled up my character (which I hadn't done earlier). So I guess I don't need help anymore Back to playing your great mod!
Modifié par Name Goes Here, 17 septembre 2010 - 12:06 .
#44
Posté 17 septembre 2010 - 01:06
WyrinDnjargo
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THanks
glad it got resolved. The bug is due to corrupted objects in the area which will cause acrash in certain situations. One tip tho is I would not save the game In That area and then rely on that save to reload from as the crash bug may affect the save game too
of course that does mean you have to face dragotha with no immediate save point.... :-/
glad it got resolved. The bug is due to corrupted objects in the area which will cause acrash in certain situations. One tip tho is I would not save the game In That area and then rely on that save to reload from as the crash bug may affect the save game too
of course that does mean you have to face dragotha with no immediate save point.... :-/
#45
Posté 18 septembre 2010 - 01:20
Gilradthegreat
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I have been replaying WPM solo (excellent idea by the way!), but I am a little confused about something:
On the vault page, you say we should delete the SoZ override folder to ensure compatibility with Kaedrin's and your mod. So I got rid of the folder and now my overworld map is completely borked, there's no interface skin, and combat doesn't start properly. What's going on?
On the vault page, you say we should delete the SoZ override folder to ensure compatibility with Kaedrin's and your mod. So I got rid of the folder and now my overworld map is completely borked, there's no interface skin, and combat doesn't start properly. What's going on?
#46
Posté 18 septembre 2010 - 03:11
E.C.Patterson
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**SPOILERS**
I`m facing this Ogre Mage in Undermoor who`s refusing to go down. Immortal perhaps?... Do you have a debug command? Thanks
I`m facing this Ogre Mage in Undermoor who`s refusing to go down. Immortal perhaps?... Do you have a debug command? Thanks
#47
Posté 18 septembre 2010 - 07:01
WyrinDnjargo
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@Gilrad - I'm assuming you only deleted the SoZ folder from the Kaedrin content - do you still have my content from the Campaign folder? Its the scripts in kaedrins SoZ folder than can conflict with my custom ones
@EC - the only ogre mage down there is summoned from a global blueprint - so no customisation that could have switched it to immortal...hmmm....not sure on that one...
@EC - the only ogre mage down there is summoned from a global blueprint - so no customisation that could have switched it to immortal...hmmm....not sure on that one...
#48
Posté 19 septembre 2010 - 03:58
Quixal
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Burn it.E.C.Patterson wrote...
**SPOILERS**
I`m facing this Ogre Mage in Undermoor who`s refusing to go down. Immortal perhaps?... Do you have a debug command? Thanks
Burn it with fire.
For some reason it has troll-like properties. I had assumed that was intentional.
#49
Posté 19 septembre 2010 - 06:41
WyrinDnjargo
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AH yes, now i see what you mean - yes, it has regeneration just like a troll - as per the PnP rules
#50
Posté 19 septembre 2010 - 09:06
The Fred
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Do Ogre Magi have troll-like regen in PnP?
