105 réponses à ce sujet

[Synthetic Frost]

I'm kind of at an impasse here. As an infiltrator with the warp ammo bonus power on insanity, I'm finding it difficult to see why I'd actually "want" the squad variation of almost any ammo power.


The way I play it, I end up choosing a different squad mate set up on each mission, depending on what I'll be up against. But with Disruptor and Warp ammo at my disposal, all I really need at that point is Incendiary Ammo/AP Ammo to round out the squad. Which are provided by several teammates.


But the reason I dislike the squad ammo power up is because I will almost always set each squad mate to a different power. I made the mistake of setting one or two teammates to the squad variation, and I always end up having to redo the ammo choices on the wheel.


Once I get the ammo powers right, on the few enemies that wouldn't die to a single headshot, I'll strip the barrier/shields with my teammate's Warp + my Warp Ammo or Disruptor ammo using the tempest, and almost immediately, my incendiary-using squad mate will strip the armor with a snipe or shotgun shot, which even on Insanity, strips the armor off within a single shot 90% of the time.


At that point I just use a headshot or my own incinerate power to kill the victim. The only enemies that this doesn't work so seamlessly on are Harbingers and Heavy Mechs. The latter of which I just kite around the room anyway.


As I'm typing this out, I think I'm beginning to understand that the Squad variations ARE useless to an infiltrator, but for someone like an adept or vanguard who have little in terms of ammo powers, the squad ammo makes sense.


So let me revise my question. Are there any real scenarios as an infiltrator where the Squad variation of ammo powers comes in handy?

Modifié par Synthetic Frost, 31 août 2010 - 09:41 .

[Khuutra]

I haven't played Infiltrator on Insanity, but surely Cryo Ammo still works best in the Squad version?

[Kronner]

squad Cryo ammo is good. squad Inferno/Disruptor is good if your class does not have access to it (so you take it from Grunt/Jacob or Zaeed). Other than that squad ammos are useless, since squadmate AI sucks and they do far less damage than you no matter what imho.

[Synthetic Frost]

Cryo Ammo is virtually useless on Insanity (for Infiltrators) as it only freezes enemies with no defenses up. and every enemy has defenses on Insanity. I didn’t even put a point in my Infiltrator’s Cryo Ammo.

Modifié par Synthetic Frost, 31 août 2010 - 10:17 .

[Kronner]

Well, you are wrong. Squad Cryo is awesome on Insanity. Probably the best all-around ammo for your squad.

and why do you think Vanguards lack ammo powers (just read end of your OP) - have you even played as a Vanguard?

Modifié par Kronner, 31 août 2010 - 09:49 .

[Khuutra]

The thing about your squadmates with Cryo Ammo is that they tend to focus fire much better when they have it, for some reason or another. More, it's indispensable for any mission with Husks. Here's a fun exercise: go to the IFF with Squad Cryo. Shoot every Husk once or twice with the Phalanx, then just ignore them. They die incredibly quickly - Husks in particular die quickly because they explode as soon as they freeze.



Squad Cryo Ammo can be pretty awesome. Put it on your teammates' SMGs or ARs and watch them go to town.

[SonofMacPhisto]

I haven't played much as an Infiltrator, but it sounds like you've got it down pretty well. The biggest thing to learn in Mass Effect 2 is that if a particular strategy works for you, then use it. In my opinion, most of these questions are not 'What's best?' but 'What do I like?'



I most often play Adept, Soldier, and Vanguard. On Soldier and Vanguard, I'll keep at least one Heavy power for myself, while the squad will get one complimentary power. For example, currently I'm playing Vanguard, so I keep Inferno for the big hitting Claymore/Biotic Rush and crowd control after getting up close. My squad gets Cryo, so they're crowd controlling fools and setting up my future attacks.



The Adept works differently, since I give everyone Warp ammo. Powers and gun fire strip defenses, and then when enemies are biotic'd, everyone gets the double damage bonus. I especially enjoy sniper squadmates as an Adept.



Nowadays, I never use squadmate's ammo powers. The reason is I'd rather not waste squad points, especially when the loyalty powers are very useful on Hardcore. Zaeed gets his Inferno Grenade, and Grunt gets his Fortifi-IAMKROGAN-cation maxed. Then, I just give them an ammo power myself to round everything out.



In the end, no matter how you slice it, I think everyone should get some kind of ammo power active. Guns get used a lot in this game, no matter what class you play, so you better max out the potential.

[Synthetic Frost]

Vanguards have ammo powers. I know. Incendiary and Cryo. But neither of which does very well against shields or barriers. Granted you have biotics to offset that, but that’s beside the point.



I guess I see Cryo Ammo as useless because if the enemy has nothing but a health bar left, he’s already dead by the time any of my squad mates could freeze him.



I don’t use hardly any crowd control as an infiltrator. On my adept I use it all the time, but as the Infiltrator if the enemy isn’t dead in 3 shots or less from full defenses, I’m doing it wrong.

[Kronner]

I usually play Vanguard, all I need is Charge, no crowd control needed. Inferno ammo is by far the best against organics since Vanguards are in close combat all the time, the panic effect is invaluable. No need for special ammo against barriers, shotguns are so powerful you can one shot kill (Claymore) or plus melee (Evi, GPS) or a few rapid shots (Scimitar) any regular guys regardless of their defense - be it shield, armor or barrier.

Squad Cryo Ammo is awesome because since squadmate AI sucks, and almost every enemy is focused on me, at least they will occasionaly freeze an enemy in a group I am fighting. Nice little bonus. Cryo is also awesome against geth, much better than Inferno against them. Disruptor is still better, but not by much (at least for a Vanguard).

Modifié par Kronner, 31 août 2010 - 10:03 .

[Synthetic Frost]

I see what you’re saying, Kronner, but that’s where my disruptor ammo comes in, It overloads the weapons and shorts out any synthetic units long enough for me to poke my head out and snipe them anyway, assuming the cloak is on cooldown.

Edit: Also, another problem with Cryo is that even in the off chance an enemy gets frozen before I can pick them off, being frozen often knocks them over without shattering them, making it 10x harder to snipe them.

Modifié par Synthetic Frost, 31 août 2010 - 10:07 .

[Kronner]

Disruptor only overloads weapons when enemies are down to health...

see this thread - http://social.biowar...8/index/4569298
(9th post)

edit: yeah, for Snipers cryo is not that good, but if you are at the frontline, it is pretty good.

Modifié par Kronner, 31 août 2010 - 10:10 .

[Synthetic Frost]

"Additional effects like Disruptor Ammo's "stun robots" or "overheat weapons" only apply if the target no longer has resistances. So even if you are using Disruptor Ammo against energy shields, the shields must be completely off before the target can be stunned or overheated. “”

Looks like it stuns them to me.

Edit: Annnyway, I really didn’t mean for this to get into yet another X class Vs. Y class argument. I was just curious to hear Squad Ammo Power success stories from other Infiltrators. Sorry for any confusion.

Modifié par Synthetic Frost, 31 août 2010 - 10:14 .

[SonofMacPhisto]

Synthetic, what do you use as your bonus weapon? Sounds like you're a Widow man. Do you use your squad members a lot? If so, do you focus on using their powers or weapons the most?

The answers to these questions might help determine what is best for you.

EDIT: Lol, I only brough up other classes because I want to help, and hoped examples from other classes I have played might be informative.  Now, I'm digging in the memory banks for my one Infiltrator playthrough, and trying to crunch the data in my brain to help.

Modifié par SonofMacPhisto, 31 août 2010 - 10:18 .

[Kronner]

Yes, stuns them..when they are down to health..just like Cryo works.
Also, Cryo is awesome against Husks..it istakills them as soon as you take out their armor and hit their health. I usually have squad Cryo on my Infiltrators anyways.

Modifié par Kronner, 31 août 2010 - 10:17 .

[JaegerBane]

Synthetic Frost wrote...

Vanguards have ammo powers. I
know. Incendiary and Cryo. But neither of which does very well against
shields or barriers. Granted you have biotics to offset that, but
that’s beside the point.

I guess I see Cryo Ammo as useless
because if the enemy has nothing but a health bar left, he’s already
dead by the time any of my squad mates could freeze him.

I'm in the same boat - I can see the worth of squad cryo but frankly, having enemies freeze around me (and doing all sorts of lovely things like falling safe and sound behind cover) just isn't worth the outrageous price of 10 squad points.

On Vanguards, who have a stack of options for dealing with defence-less enemies (ranging from flinging them into the air to setting them on fire), it just doesn't bring that much to the table. Personally I bite the bullet and just use Warp Ammo as a replacement via the save editor. Slight overlap on a class with Inferno ammo of course, but a lot more versatile and synergises well with Vanguard's Pull.

Kronner wrote...
Squad Cryo Ammo is awesome because since squadmate AI sucks, and almost every enemy is focused on me, at least they will occasionaly freeze an enemy in a group I am fighting. Nice little bonus. Cryo is also awesome against geth, much better than Inferno against them. Disruptor is still better, but not by much (at least for a Vanguard).

Kronner, Cryo Ammo is only 'awesome' against geth compared to Inferno, which is crap against synths. Practically any other ammo in the game is better barring Shredder. Disruptor is a *hell* of a lot better. Extra damage, stuns, overheats, the works. Disruptor is to Geth what Inferno is to Organics.

Kronner wrote...

Yes, stuns them..when they are down to health..just like Cryo works.

I don't recall Cryo being particularly good at dealing with shields.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 31 août 2010 - 10:20 .

[Kronner]

JaegerBane wrote...

Kronner, Cryo Ammo is only 'awesome' against geth compared to Inferno, which is crap against synths. Practically any other ammo in the game is better barring Shredder. Disruptor is a *hell* of a lot better. Extra damage, stuns, overheats, the works. Disruptor is to Geth what Inferno is to Organics.

Well, since I one shot regular geth anyways it is not a big difference to me. If a geth hunter freezes or falls on the ground due to stun effect is not a big difference to me. I like Disruptor better against geth, but Cryo is not that far off and is pretty good against geth. So taking Zaeed with me for every geth fight is not required.

Also, about falling behind cover, this may happen to Infiltrator that kills most everything with a SR from a distance, and it really sucks when it does happen, but  it certainly does not happen to a shotgun Vanguards who spent most of the time in close combat. Like I said, it is actually a plus, for example if you fight a group of 4 or 5 guys in close combat, by the time you take out the first three, chances are one of the two guys that are left is frozen thanks to your squad cryo ammo.

Modifié par Kronner, 31 août 2010 - 10:25 .

[Synthetic Frost]

I am a Widow man. And typically I don’t really like having to micromanage my squad, but I find that if I don’t, they die within the first few seconds of the fight.



I’ll mostly just rely on the ammo powers and weapon selection to remove any defenses, reserving the actual powers of my squad for those “Oh crap” moments. Though I find that Grunt is about the only squad mate that doesn’t deliberately kill himself. So I’ll often let him manage his own powers.

[SonofMacPhisto]

Having thought some more, I think Cryo would make the most sense on an Infiltrator if you chose shotgun training. That way, if you got up close and didn't kill the target, they would freeze. Then, you Elbow Pimp Slap.



If you choose the Widow, targets falling down suck. My Widow Soldier certainly didn't like it.

[JaegerBane]

Kronner wrote...
Well, since I one shot regular geth anyways it is not a big difference to me. If a geth hunter freezes or falls on the ground is not a big difference to me. I like Disruptor better, but Cryo is not that far off and is pretty good against geth.

If you're one-shotting a geth then Cryo didn't help you do it - none of it's abilities affect 1S1Ks.

Also, about falling behind cover, this may happen to Infiltrator that kills most everything with a SR, but certainly not to a shotgun Vanguards.

Unless you're implying that Vanguards can shoot enemies through walls (and this mystical ability also extends to team mates too) then I'm not really sure what validity there is in such a claim.

[SonofMacPhisto]

Synthetic Frost wrote...

I am a Widow man. And typically I don’t really like having to micromanage my squad, but I find that if I don’t, they die within the first few seconds of the fight.

I’ll mostly just rely on the ammo powers and weapon selection to remove any defenses, reserving the actual powers of my squad for those “Oh crap” moments. Though I find that Grunt is about the only squad mate that doesn’t deliberately kill himself. So I’ll often let him manage his own powers.

Hmm, if I were you, I'd never use a squad ammo power and just bring squadmates with their own heavy versions, depending on the mission.  Zaeed and Grunt will get a lot of love, in other words.  Zaeed's weapon damage is sick, and Grunt's tough as hell, which all seems to work well for you.  Miranda is probably a good compliment to those two as well, since her weapon and health bonuses fit right in! 

What's your SMG and pistol of choice?  How does the rest of your Infiltrator build look?

[Kronner]

Synthetic Frost wrote...

I am a Widow man. And typically I don’t really like having to micromanage my squad, but I find that if I don’t, they die within the first few seconds of the fight.

I’ll mostly just rely on the ammo powers and weapon selection to remove any defenses, reserving the actual powers of my squad for those “Oh crap” moments. Though I find that Grunt is about the only squad mate that doesn’t deliberately kill himself. So I’ll often let him manage his own powers.

Yes, for Widow Infiltrator, squad Cryo may cause more problems than bring benefits. Squadmates die really easy unless enemies focus their attention on you, so if you just put them behind you, you should be good. Or maybe Grunt first, then you behind him and then the last squadmate.

[Synthetic Frost]

Kronner wrote...

Also, about falling behind cover, this may happen to Infiltrator that kills most everything with a SR from a distance...

Actually, on insanity we typically use either the SMG or the Heavy Pistol for most things. Sniper ammo is precious, and we get very little of it.

[Kronner]

JaegerBane wrote...

If you're one-shotting a geth then Cryo didn't help you do it - none of it's abilities affect 1S1Ks.

My point is that Disruptor's extra damage to shields is useless to me. It is one shot regardless of ammo.
For tougher enemies such as geth hunter, it does not make any difference to me if after the first shot the thing freezes or falls on the ground.
Point is, for me Disruptor is only slightly (if at all) better than Cryo against geth when I play Vanguard. With Infiltrator or Adept or Soldier etc., it is a different story and Disruptor is hands down the best.

JaegerBane wrote...Unless you're implying that Vanguards can shoot enemies through walls (and this mystical ability also extends to team mates too) then I'm not really sure what validity there is in such a claim.

No I am implying that by Charging an enemy group, you take them all out of cover anyways. They are focused on you, so if your squad manages to freeze one or two while you fight them, they fall right beside you, not behind cover. This is much differen from sniping enemies and if they fall behind cover, it just slows you down. This is not the case with Vanguards though.

Synthetic Frost wrote...

Actually,on insanity we typically use either the SMG or the Heavy Pistol for most things. Sniper ammo is precious, and we get very little of it.

Well, but when you DO snipe, and enemies fall behind cover due to squad cryo ammo it sucks. That is all I am saying.

btw I always use Widow as my primary weapon though and switch to Locust only when I run out of ammo or if enemy is too weak or too close. I use Shotguns on other Infiltator with Viper as a secondary gun. I can't tell which one I like better..both builds are awesome and fun.

Modifié par Kronner, 31 août 2010 - 10:39 .

[Synthetic Frost]

All this talk about the Vanguard makes me want to carry over my own from ME1. I loved ME1 so much that I honestly made one of each of the 6 classes with all the in-game choices I’d want to use throughout the trilogy. But I really only ended up carrying over the Adept, the Engineer, and finally the Infiltrator as my “main” in ME2.

I didn’t really like what ME2 did with the Adept, making most biotics useless against defenses.

But anyway, most of this thread has been off-topic.

To bring it on topic, are there any infiltrators that actually LIKE Cryo ammo? Because even with all this talk about it. I just can’t see using it.

Modifié par Synthetic Frost, 31 août 2010 - 10:52 .

[Synthetic Frost]

SonofMacPhisto wrote...

Synthetic Frost wrote...

I am a Widow man. And typically I don’t really like having to micromanage my squad, but I find that if I don’t, they die within the first few seconds of the fight.

I’ll mostly just rely on the ammo powers and weapon selection to remove any defenses, reserving the actual powers of my squad for those “Oh crap” moments. Though I find that Grunt is about the only squad mate that doesn’t deliberately kill himself. So I’ll often let him manage his own powers.

Hmm, if I were you, I'd never use a squad ammo power and just bring squadmates with their own heavy versions, depending on the mission.  Zaeed and Grunt will get a lot of love, in other words.  Zaeed's weapon damage is sick, and Grunt's tough as hell, which all seems to work well for you.  Miranda is probably a good compliment to those two as well, since her weapon and health bonuses fit right in! 

What's your SMG and pistol of choice?  How does the rest of your Infiltrator build look?

Wow, this thread’s been growing so fast that I didn’t even see this post.


As luck would have it, I do end up using the Zaeed/Grunt combo quite a bit. Concussive Shot+Incineration Blast = charred pile of meat. However, while Miranda does indeed look like the best compliment to the infiltrator+Grunt squad with warp and bonuses to health and damage, she dies the fastest of any squad member I’ve ever seen. And since I rely on my squad to tank while I snipe, I rarely use her. Instead, I’ll have grunt tank and use the slightly more durable Thane. Sometimes I’ll use Garrus if I’m up against synthetics simply because he’s probably my favorite squad member in ME2.

Honestly, another Wrex would’ve been ideal. But there aren’t any tanks with biotic powers in ME2, sadly. (If ANYONE brings up Jacob.... Actually... Just don’t.)

As far as my build goes, I used:

10/10 Heavy Disruptor Ammo
0/10 Cryo Ammo
10/10 Assassination Cloak
10/10 Heavy Incinerate
1/10 AI Hacking
10/10 Assassin class
10/10 Heavy Warp Ammo

Modifié par Synthetic Frost, 31 août 2010 - 11:16 .