105 réponses à ce sujet

[SonofMacPhisto]

Synthetic Frost wrote...

SonofMacPhisto wrote...

Synthetic Frost wrote...

I am a Widow man. And typically I don’t really like having to micromanage my squad, but I find that if I don’t, they die within the first few seconds of the fight.

I’ll mostly just rely on the ammo powers and weapon selection to remove any defenses, reserving the actual powers of my squad for those “Oh crap” moments. Though I find that Grunt is about the only squad mate that doesn’t deliberately kill himself. So I’ll often let him manage his own powers.

Hmm, if I were you, I'd never use a squad ammo power and just bring squadmates with their own heavy versions, depending on the mission.  Zaeed and Grunt will get a lot of love, in other words.  Zaeed's weapon damage is sick, and Grunt's tough as hell, which all seems to work well for you.  Miranda is probably a good compliment to those two as well, since her weapon and health bonuses fit right in! 

What's your SMG and pistol of choice?  How does the rest of your Infiltrator build look?

Wow, this thread’s been growing so fast that I didn’t even see this post.


As luck would have it, I do end up using the Zaeed/Grunt combo quite a bit. Concussive Shot+Incineration Blast = charred pile of meat. However, while Miranda does indeed look like the best compliment to the infiltrator+Grunt squad with warp and bonuses to health and damage, she dies the fastest of any squad member I’ve ever seen. And since I rely on my squad to tank while I snipe, I rarely use her. Instead, I’ll have grunt tank and use the slightly more durable Thane. Sometimes I’ll use Garrus if I’m up against synthetics simply because he’s probably my favorite squad member in ME2.

Honestly, another Wrex would’ve been ideal. But there aren’t any tanks with biotic powers in ME2, sadly. (If ANYONE brings up Jacob.... Actually... Just don’t.)

As far as my build goes, I used:

10/10 Heavy Disruptor Ammo
0/10 Cryo Ammo
10/10 Assassination Cloak
10/10 Heavy Incinerate
1/10 AI Hacking
10/10 Assassin class
10/10 Heavy Warp Ammo

NINJA'D

Kidding aside, more and more I'm thinking for YOU squad ammo power is useless.  As an Infiltrator, I think it would make sense if you chose a different weapon setup.  I can see a cryo equipped squad running around with shotguns shattering bums all over the place.  Do you have the Firepower Pack?  Geth Plasma Shotgun + Fully Charged Shot + Cloak =   (Heck, the GPS even makes a loyal Jacob somewhat useful.  He and Grunt could be a tank team.  Even though he's not as tough, Barrier does benefit from biotic cooldowns.  Though, that might require some management on your part... *shrugs*)

Good thread, in any case.  This has been a nice mental exercise.

Once he's loyal, how do you feel about using Garrus more?  I've done him 10/10 Concussive, 10/10 Passive, and 10/10 Tungsten.  He can get pretty dirty with that Tungsten.

Modifié par SonofMacPhisto, 31 août 2010 - 11:30 .

[Synthetic Frost]

SonofMacPhisto wrote...

NINJA'D

Kidding aside, more and more I'm thinking for YOU squad ammo power is useless.  As an Infiltrator, I think it would make sense if you chose a different weapon setup.  I can see a cryo equipped squad running around with shotguns shattering bums all over the place.  Do you have the Firepower Pack?  Geth Plasma Shotgun + Fully Charged Shot + Cloak =   (Heck, the GPS even makes a loyal Jacob somewhat useful.  He and Grunt could be a tank team.  Even though he's not as tough, Barrier does benefit from biotic cooldowns.  Though, that might require some management on your part... *shrugs*)

Good thread, in any case.  This has been a nice mental exercise.

Once he's loyal, how do you feel about using Garrus more?  I've done him 10/10 Concussive, 10/10 Passive, and 10/10 Tungsten.  He can get pretty dirty with that Tungsten.

Sorry for the delayed response, I was actually in the middle of Jack’s loyalty mission and didn’t have Garrus with me to check what I used on him.

Your build looks nice. Kinda wish I could reallocate my squads points, because even after several playthroughs on various characters, I’m never quite happy with my original point placements.

On Garrus, I have

10/10 Concussive Blast

10/10 Heavy Overload (Considering how easy it is for me to shred shields off, this was probably my biggest mistake with Garrus, but it’s still nice if I need the enemy to stop firing on command)

6/10 Turian Rebel

3/10 Armor Piercing Ammo. (This is likely where I would have put the points from Overload given the chance. But like I said, I end up using Overload more than I’d think I would.

Modifié par Synthetic Frost, 01 septembre 2010 - 12:20 .

[SonofMacPhisto]

Well, there's always next time, right?

[Big Yam]

I find that shotguns works best with heavy cryo, sniper rifles work best with heavy warp, and auto weapons work best with squad inferno or squad disruptor.

[EffectedByTheMasses]

Question: If you one snipe a fully shielded enemy with cryo on and remove their protection fully and take some of their health off, they still freeze. Does the same thing happen with overheating weapons and disruptor ammo?

[sinosleep]

The only ammo power I ever go squad version with on my own characters regardless of class is cryo. For everything else I go heavy on myself and have a squad member provide the squad version if I absolutely positively need it.

[ryoldschool]

Big Yam, I think they explained it in another current thread.



http://social.biowar...8/index/4569298



engine looks if ammo power is effective vs current protection before it does anything. If not effective then no extra damage. So one drop of shields left will prevent AP ammo from doing anything.

[Clone 071]

If you're referring to Shepard with the Squad vs. Heavy Ammo Powers, I usually end up picking the the heavy version. (Shepard does more damage than the squad itself, giving him a greater possibility to defeat enemies.)
If it's the squad members you're referring to, I'd pick the squad ammo powers. (Works great with squad members that lack ammo powers- Tali, Samara, Mordin, Miranda, Kasumi, Legion)

That's just how I played my Insanity playthrough though.

Modifié par Clone 071, 01 septembre 2010 - 04:03 .

[OniGanon]

I have played Infiltrator through Insanity 3 times now (2 NG+), and am currently at Collector Ship on my 4th run. I like to think I know the class fairly well by now.



In that time, I have learned:

-Infiltrator should be played aggressively, regardless of what you choose on the Collector Ship. It's by far the most effective way of playing it.

-1pt AI Hacking is godly in any fight involving a Geth or Mech, which is a great many of them.

-Neural Shock is fantastic, and its short cooldown stagger on protected organics is quite possibly more valuable than its stun.

-that the best ammo in most situations is Squad Cryo Ammo.



The exceptions to this are against Geth (who are best handled with Squad Cryo on squadmates, and Disruptor Ammo on yourself), and bosses.

[PsyrenY]

As has been said, Squad Cryo works well on CQC Infiltrators. Squad Disruptor/Warp is a better fit for the sniper-types - freeze + cover are poor bedfellows when you're distant.

But personally, I'd rather have Cryo than Incinerate. Not only does it cover ground that your rifle can already handle, it takes valuable cooldowns away from your cloak.

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 01 septembre 2010 - 04:23 .

[OniGanon]

Even on Widow Infiltrators, Squad Cryo Ammo is usually the best ammo to have on every gun but the Widow. Just put a squadmate's Squad Ammo onto the Widow (whichever is appropriate for the level), switch weapon and put Squad Cryo on everything else.

[sinosleep]

OniGanon wrote...

Even on Widow Infiltrators, Squad Cryo Ammo is usually the best ammo to have on every gun but the Widow. Just put a squadmate's Squad Ammo onto the Widow (whichever is appropriate for the level), switch weapon and put Squad Cryo on everything else.

Yup that's what I did on my insanity playthrough. I picked up the widow on the collector ship and would usually put squad cryo on all my other weapons while keeping the heavy version of either disrupter or warp on the widow depending on the most common enemy type to save me a few shots a mission. When I wasn't sniping I'd be running and gunning with the locust freezing people at will.

[jwalker]

Kronner wrote...

Squad Cryo Ammo is awesome because since squadmate AI sucks, and almost every enemy is focused on me, at least they will occasionaly freeze an enemy in a group I am fighting. Nice little bonus. Cryo is also awesome against geth, much better than Inferno against them. Disruptor is still better, but not by much (at least for a Vanguard).

With my vanguard I love geth missions with Garrus and Miranda/Kasumi. Squad cryo FTW !!

[Tony Gunslinger]

Synthetic Frost wrote...

I see what you’re saying, Kronner, but that’s where my disruptor ammo comes in, It overloads the weapons and shorts out any synthetic units long enough for me to poke my head out and snipe them anyway, assuming the cloak is on cooldown.

Edit: Also, another problem with Cryo is that even in the off chance an enemy gets frozen before I can pick them off, being frozen often knocks them over without shattering them, making it 10x harder to snipe them.

I love squad cryo ammo, but I also find it to be frustrating in that way too. But for me, it's still a better overall skill to have. Here's my rationale for it:

On insanity your squad's weapons are pretty much useless for at least 1/3 of the game. You can't rely on their weapon damage to kill or take down defenses fast enough even with other ammo powers, so freezing them is the only effective option. Besides, frozen enemy = not a threat, even if you can't kill it. But I do think after the Collector ship, cryo ammo becomes more of an optional choice because weapon damage, tech, and biotics gets improved by then.

My experience is that skirmishes without squad cryo is very linear, meaning you're taking out 1 enemy at a time. Skirmishes with squad cryo ammo starts a bit out lower, but once enough enemies are frozen I eventually kill everything very quickly and very easily. This is because instead of using one turn to kill, you either focus on stripping another enemy's defense down or kill the frozen enemy without wasting your power during that turn. This adds up exponentially.

Just to be simplistic, if there are three enemies and you are not using cloak to kill, you will take damage from all three enemies. But if one guy is frozen, you will take damage from two enemies instead. Also, frozen enemies gets 100% base damage bonus, so you can take that guy out in one volley faster, as well as receiving less damage, than not having cryo ammo at all, and then you can still use cloak for the next volley. If you don't have cryo ammo, you'll probably want to use cloak now to kill, and then you'll need to wait for CD on your next volley. So, the tactics between the two are different.

But yeah, I do have a few minor quips about cyro ammo though. For better or worse, if an enemy has a bit of defense left and you used a power on them that carries past the defense, they somehow instantly freeze, which makes it harder to throw/pull/concussive shot them off ledges.

[Synthetic Frost]

Ok, so I started a Vanguard on Veteran last night just to see what all the fanfare was about... Got it to level 23.



It’s a fun class for sure. I got a thrill every time I charged. But in my particular case a huge chunk of my charges would glitch out the game. The enemy I was charging will suddenly be standing on top of me. Or in some cases it’ll start to charge, eating up the cooldown, but I’ll still be standing there where I initiated the charge. Defenses on the enemies or not, very rarely did the game act like it was designed to. Taking most of the fun out of it for me.



Now don’t get me wrong here. In most RPG’s I play, I’m the warrior. My first Shepard in ME1 was a Soldier. But over the course of the game I found I almost used the sniper exclusively, and I loved the idea of being a tech expert. So the Infiltrator just came naturally.



Now that I’ve officially played every single class to (almost) max level, I just have to say that while the Vanguard is fun, and it’s a blast to charge all over the map, it just seems so inefficient. Why risk being out of cover, plowing through the enemies, being constantly in the red when a quick, smart, sniper shot would’ve saved you all that risk?

[termokanden]

I think the vanguard is wonderfully designed. It only plays well if you are aggressive and charge all the time. If not, it's mediocre at best. But when you do keep charging, if you do it right, the constant shield recharges will keep you alive without ever taking cover.



However, the downfall of the vanguard is that there are quite a few places where charge simply does not work. I thought it would just be sniper nests personally, but it turned out to bug much more often, even preventing me from charging to accessible locations.



If it worked all the time, my favorite class would be the vanguard.

[sinosleep]

Charge doesn't glitch out all that often for me, and when it does I usually either go back into cover and try again or just switch targets which works 99% (I've literally NEVER had it glitch out on two targets in a row) of the time.



With regards to the whole quite a few places where charge doesn't work could you name them? Cause I'd say the VAST majority of enemies in the game are chargeable. Hell, one of the most common complaints in reviews for the game were that most firefights take place in areas with the same general layout. A flat room with lots of waist high boxes to take cover behind. You can charge any enemy in a room of that type which turns out to be the vast majority of areas in the game. The ONLY place I can think of off the top of my head that has any extended portions where charge isn't really an option is this section of Grunt's recruitment







and really that's about it. Sure, there are areas within heavily chargeable zones where you can't charge (rocket guys on the ledges of other sections of Grunt's recruitment) but for the most part you can charge at will on any level.



Now as to WHY you would want to risk being out of cover as opposed to sniping it's entirely a player preference issue. I love sniping as much as the next guy, but I simply could not do two infiltrator playthroughs in a row. Sniping starts to get boring for me. I can handle it across one playthrough, but I have much more fun repeating content on my vanguards than I do on any other class. I like the fact I melee just as often as I shoot my shotgun. I like the fact that I can go one on one with a colossus with nothing but charge and my shotgun and live to tell about it. I like the fact that I'm one messed up charge away from death if I'm not quick enough to work around it. All those things make the game more exciting to me.

[Kronner]

sinosleep wrote...

...
and really that's about it. Sure, there are areas within heavily chargeable zones where you can't charge (rocket guys on the ledges of other sections of Grunt's recruitment) but for the most part you can charge at will on any level.

...

I agree. I have played through the game many times and there are very few enemies you can't Charge. I am pretty sure I use (kill with) shotgun at least 95% of the time, and Locust for the very few unchargeable guys (always only regular guys, never elite enemy or boss). As to why is it fun? Well, to be honest I have never ever played around with more awesome ability than biotic Charge in ME2. Being in HA.R.M.'s way all the time is what makes me play this game even today.

Modifié par Kronner, 02 septembre 2010 - 11:25 .

[termokanden]

With regards to the whole quite a few places where charge doesn't work could you name them?

Well it seems to be connected to areas where you'd have to climb, like the Collector platforms. Sometimes I will charge up there, sometimes I stop when I reach the platform. In fact it happened quite often on the Collector platforms.

It pretty much never bugs apart from that. Obviously there are also some enemies that you simply can't charge, but I'm OK with that.

It's debatable how much of a problem this actually is, but it does annoy me quite a lot when it doesn't work at a critical moment.

[sinosleep]

termokanden wrote...

Well it seems to be connected to areas where you'd have to climb, like the Collector platforms. Sometimes I will charge up there, sometimes I stop when I reach the platform. In fact it happened quite often on the Collector platforms.

It pretty much never bugs apart from that. Obviously there are also some enemies that you simply can't charge, but I'm OK with that.

It's debatable how much of a problem this actually is, but it does annoy me quite a lot when it doesn't work at a critical moment.

The collector platorms can be a problem, but pretty much only when charging from one platform to another. Same platform charging works like a charm more often than not. In the sticky vanguard thread we pinned it down to being that the charge can't take you on a path that's wider than the opening between the two platforms. So generally if you don't want to have problems charging on collector platforms all you have to do is manually climb from one platform to another and then charge at will. It can be irritating, but I don't consider it much of a problem when there's only one section in the entire game I can think of that has you going an inordinate amount of time without being able to charge someone.

Modifié par sinosleep, 02 septembre 2010 - 11:41 .

[termokanden]

Well there are two sections with platforms but sure. They also happen to be some of the most challenging fights too.



I agree that it doesn't ruin vanguards. It does manage to annoy me, however.

[Kronner]

If you get out of cover and THEN Charge (that means do not press Charge button while you are in cover) and the platforms are connected, you will always Charge (never had "can't get a lock" problem when I did that).

[sinosleep]

termokanden wrote...

Well there are two sections with platforms but sure. They also happen to be some of the most challenging
fights too.

I agree that it doesn't ruin vanguards. It does manage to annoy me, however.

The thing is though that it doesn't stop you from charging on any of the platform missions. Check out the links in my sigs. Yeah, I get glitched out a few times, but more often than not my charges work and I kill everything with my shotgun. On the collector platforms. It's why I don't count them as sections where you can't charge. I only count the part of Grunt's recruitment that I linked to where you literally go for 3 minutes of nothing but guys on unchargeable ledges.

[edit here] Paticularly suicide run parts 1 and 4 and the collector ship vid.

Modifié par sinosleep, 02 septembre 2010 - 11:54 .

[termokanden]

Kronner wrote...

If you get out of cover and THEN Charge (that means do not press Charge button while you are in cover) and the platforms are connected, you will always Charge (never had "can't get a lock" problem when I did that).

That's not what I'm talking about. I will start charging and then stop before I reach the target. But yeah maybe it works if you get out of cover first.

Then again, it's getting to the point where sniping with Adrenaline Rush is more annoying than Charge not working. Damn aim assist!

[Kronner]

termokanden wrote...

Kronner wrote...

If you get out of cover and THEN Charge (that means do not press Charge button while you are in cover) and the platforms are connected, you will always Charge (never had "can't get a lock" problem when I did that).

That's not what I'm talking about. I will start charging and then stop before I reach the target. But yeah maybe it works if you get out of cover first.

Then again, it's getting to the point where sniping with Adrenaline Rush is more annoying than Charge not working. Damn aim assist!

So you have xbox version then I guess. Many people report that Charge bugs are more frequent on xbox version...