90 réponses à ce sujet

[wizardryforever]

UPDATE:  It seems that the gist of my idea is being used in ME3, so perhaps some of what we posted will get used?  One can hope.   Anwyay, this thread has now become a speculation ground for what we'll see from ME3 skill evolutions!  Original post below.

Okay, first off let me apologize if something like this has been done before.  I think a cool idea for ME3 would be to have different paths for power evolution that are quite different and mutually exlusive on the same character.  If ME3 extends the level cap to 60 and the current leveling system is used, then more ranks of powers/skills will be necessary.  But in order for it to push boundaries (a bit), we need to have a second, additional evolution of powers.  Let's say that max rank for powers is extended to 8, double the current max.

Wall of text ahoy!

Here's my idea:  each time a power is evolved, you get to pick from two different options.  We already have this in ME2, but when we add a second evolution, options get much more interesting.  For example, Pull evolves into Heavy Pull or Area Pull.  At the second evolution at rank 8, two more choices are presented, depending on which choice you made previously.  This means there will be four different "final" versions of a power/skill, all mutually exlusive on the same character.

To continue my previous example, Heavy Pull -> Penetrating Pull or Volatile Pull, Area Pull -> Tidal Pull or Gravitic Pull.  I'll explain these a bit more:

Penetrating Pull = Pull now penetrates one layer of defenses whether it's armor, shields, or biotic barrier.  This would let you use Pull on most mooks on the higher difficulties, but not bosses.  However, this only works on enemies with a layer of health.  Enemies with only armor (Scions, Praetorians, Harbinger) would only take damage, but not be pulled.

Volatile Pull = The pulled enemy now deals double (maybe triple) damage in a Warp explosion.

Tidal Pull = The pulled subject(s) take the pull effect with them, affecting unprotected enemies they pass by, pulling them along.  This will also damage protected enemies (but not pull them).

Gravitic Pull = The pulled subject(s) group together upon being pulled, allowing easy potshots or an easy setup for a Warp explosion.

This is the essence of my idea, unique evolutions based on prior choices.  But since I've come up with a lot of other examples, I'll share them with you.  Throw leads to Heavy or Area Throw: Heavy Throw -> Slow Throw or Penetrating Throw, Area Throw -> Crippling Throw or Bludgeoning Throw.

Slow Throw = After the throw effect hits the target, they  fly backward (or however you aim it) at a slow speed, allowing Throw to be used for Warp explosions.

Penetrating Throw = See Penetrating Pull above, just with Throw.

Crippling Throw = The affected subjects move more slowly upon getting up (if they get up ).

Bludgeoning Throw = The affected subjects take much more damage from the initial impact (with your biotics) and also take damage if they hit a wall or other obstruction.  Also throws enemies farther.

And just to show that it can work with non-biotics, I'll do Incendiary ammo.  Inferno ammo -> Explosive ammo or Vampiric ammo, Squad ammo -> Squad Inferno ammo or Fiery defense

Explosive ammo = Every so many shots (depends on the weapon used) the ammo explodes on impact, dealing concussive damage on top of the normal damage (fire and all).  This is highly effective against biotic barriers.

Vampiric ammo (may need a better name) = Every time the enemy takes fire damage, you get some of their health/shields back.  Don't ask me to explain this scientifically.

Squad Inferno = The whole squad gets inferno, instead of the usual incendiary.

Fiery Defense (definitely needs a better name) = Gives the squad Miranda type bonuses to damage and rate of fire.

If anyone has any good ideas for possible evolution trees, post them and I'll add them to the OP. Remember that these second evolutions are on top of the previous abilities, they don't replace them, except in special cases.
EDIT: Changed the title to be a bit more sensational.

Modifié par wizardryforever, 13 avril 2011 - 09:02 .

[PillarBiter]

Not a bad idea at all.

flashfreeze ammo: Instantly freezes when the effect takes...effect
Crystal freeze ammo: Takes a longer duration before an enemy freezes, but any other enemy that comes into contact with the enemy having this effect will also get this effect.

Hardfreeze ammo: Instantly freezes the limb you hit with this effect. If you hit the arm, he can't shoot anymore, hitting the legs makes him unable to move, hitting the head makes him blindfire wildly, hitting the torso will mka e him fall to his knees, choking for air for a while
squad deepfreezeammo: Squad gets freezing ammo that freezes through shields and barriers. takes a little while to take effect though.


--------------------------


ricochet blast: concussive blast that will knock other enemies backward if the first one shoots the enemy backward against other enemies.
high speed blast: Knocks the enemy backward extremely hard, regardless of barrier, or shield

Concussive volley: Launches up to 4 concussive shots quickly after each other
Explosive blast: When shot, sticks to the enemy for 2 seconds before it explodes. Does high damage to armor.


-------------------------------


Disruptor ammo: Very high chance of Overloading the enemy's weapon.
Hack ammo: Using this on the enemy will hackinto their personal bank account. Every shot will net you a bunch of credits.

Squad disruptor ammo: overloads synthestics (without armor) and weapons for everyone.
emp ammo: Chance of taking down shields immediately or killing synthetic enemies (without armor) instantly


yeah, I'm a soldier player And not to diss your ideas or anything but my idea of fire ammo:

Explosive ammo: Explodes half a second after hitting the enemy, obliterates armor, health and barrier, has half the fire rate.
Overheat ammo: Doubles your fire rate, and doubles the heat buildup for your weapon

squad inferno ammo: lights enemy and any nearby enemies on fire
Scorch ammo: Scorches an enemy's bodypart, rendering it useless (leg to prevent walking, arms to prevent shooting, head to blind, body to let him suffocate to death


--------------------------


Titanium ammo: Penetrates enemies and small objects and hits an infinite number of objects behind them.
Tungsten ammo: Damages all defenses (does lowered damage to health, armor and shield/barrier with one shot)

Uranium ammo: Slowly poisons the enemy and drains his health, regardless of recovery or defenses (shield, barrier or armor)
Unobtanium ammo: Increased damage against native enemies.

Modifié par MrCry0, 31 août 2010 - 10:33 .

[wizardryforever]

Good ideas, just try to specify which path is required for each evolution, since they are supposed to be mutually exclusive.

I'll add some more.  How about Overload?  Heavy Overload -> Overload Pulse or Intense Overload, Area Overload -> Arcing Overload or Static Overload.

Overload Pulse = The target is affected by several smaller overloads (in addition to the first big one) over a 5 second period, lowering more of his shields or stunning him if synthetic.

Intense Overload = Completely lowers the shields of the target, but has a very long cooldown.  Also immediately destroys synthetic enemies that are down to health, or any hacked AI.

Arcing Overload = The Overload effect jumps to additional targets beyond the initial area of effect, hitting each one for less damage beyond the first arc.

Static Overload = The Overload effect hits the same area again several seconds later, regardless of the presence of enemies at that location.  Useful when facing Geth swarms.

Or how about Cryo Blast?  Deep Cryo -> Stable Cryo Blast or Enduring Cryo Blast, Area Cryo (can't remember the real name) -> Blizzard or Unstable Cryo.

Stable Cryo Blast = The affected target is frozen stiff in their current pose, and do not fall over (unless they were already on the ground).  This allows for easy headshots to shatter them.

Enduring Cryo Blast = The freezing effect lasts for longer than normal, and when the target thaws, they are slowed.

Blizzard = The area is widened further and given a duration in which enemies within are frozen briefly and slowed, as are any who enter the area during the duration are also slowed.

Unstable Cryo Blast = The affected targets are much easier to shatter, taking far fewer shots.  However, they are also more prone to falling over.

[phatpat63]

don't be shocked if this is rendered moot in the next week

[MrnDvlDg161]

I would like to see a two-handed weapons option. You know, 2 sub-machine guns or something to that affect.



An energy blade.

[Tazzmission]

i like to see some form up ugraded biotic power where you can rip an enemy into pieces,



tactical cloack needs to be updated with some form of gun shot added to it wile invisible

[Rivercurse]

MrnDvlDg161 wrote...

I would like to see a two-handed weapons option. You know, 2 sub-machine guns or something to that affect.

An energy blade.

I suggest you buy Halo 3

[wizardryforever]

Oh, come on, someone else must have some cool ideas!

[formshifter]

I would rather have passive bonuses associated with the powers, and have extra powers.

Example:

Explosive ammo: adds burn damage, a radius per shot, and weapon force (knockdown) , evolved into Squad ex ammo and High Ex ammo



Hammer ammo (evolves to Squad Hammer ammo or Sledgehammer ammo): causes extra damage, knockback and toxic damage



Biotic Wave: an area in front of the Biotic (adept/vangaurd) is hit with a biotic field, throwing back opponents. Evolved into 360 Wave or Biotic Tsunami (180 Wave with double stats)



Damping: An electrical field that causes shield/barrier/health damage, and prevents enemies from using biotics. Evolves into Backfire damping and extended (one causes the power to backfire, the other increases effect time)



Weapons Jamming: An electromagnetic and light field that burns enemies, causes instant damage, and stops enemies from using weapons for a short time. Evolves into Bypassing jamming (goes through barriers/armor) and Extended jamming (weapon effect is extended).



Sabotage: Causes opponents to suffer damage and a stun if they use a power (or the next time they fire if they are heavy/standard troops.



Armor Training: Increases damage resistance and physics resistance (anti biotic effects)



Weapons Training: adds skills for the weapons (shotgun, AR, sniper, pistol, SMG) and damage/accuracy (included to heavy weapons)



Biotic Bullet: fires a very concentrated version of throw, which damages the opponent heavily (can evolve to cause a crippling effect or bypass barriers/armor).



Biotic Whiplash: grabs an opponent and whips him into the wall/ceiling. Has a chance to kill an opponent outright (neck break, anyone?), and causes stun and crippling afterwards, very light damage.



Bring back lift.

[wizardryforever]

Well I suppose adding new powers would also be nice, though that wasn't what I was thinking of.  It's all good though.  If I understand you correctly formshifter, you want most of the powers from ME1 back.  Well Pull is essentially the same as Lift, except now you can use it in any direction (including upwards, if you want).  All you have to do is aim it correctly.  It has to be Shepard using it though, squaddies aren't as aimable in general.

How about some class specific ones?  Singularity leads to Heavy or Wide.  Heavy Singularity -> Vortex or Unstable Singularity.  Wide Singularity -> Event Horizon or Mobile Singularity

Vortex = The singularity spins the targets much faster than normal, resulting in the enemies flying off in all directions when it expires.  This causes stunning and concussive damage.

Unstable Singularity = Deals double (maybe triple) damage on a Warp explosion

Event Horizon = The singularity has an even wider diameter, pulling in inanimate objects as well as enemies (which don't count against the cap).  These objects collide with enemies, causing damage on impact.  Can be devastating with explosive canisters.

Mobile Singularity = The singularity moves towards the highest concentration of enemies on the battlefield, protected or otherwise, until the duration runs out or the carrying limit is reached.

Or what about Combat Drone?  Combat Drone leads to Attack Drone or Explosive Drone.  Attack Drone -> Clone Drone or Cloaking Drone.  Explosive Drone -> Fiery Drone or Chemical Drone.

Clone Drone = You now create two drones instead of one.

Cloaking Drone = Your drone will cloak and uncloak to attack enemies for a damage bonus from stealth.

Fiery Drone = Your drone now sets enemies on fire in addition to it's regular attack.  Also does fire damage when it explodes.

Chemical Drone = Your drone uses a chemical agent that causes organic enemies to be slowed, also prevents the use of most powers, biotic or tech.

Modifié par wizardryforever, 01 septembre 2010 - 05:35 .

[kalle90]

I'd be happy if they mixed ME1 and 2. Shepard gets some 12-15 and teammates some 6-10 skills, skills have some 8 steps and each step requires only 1 skillpoint. It would also be cool if most powers had different development paths like OP suggests 

[PillarBiter]

dominate -> group dominate; heavy dominate -> super soldier, group domination ; dominatrix , whisper



Super soldier: Every organic on he playing field is affected, the enemy you dominated will be seen as a traitor by all allies (and receive a huge amount of barrier, increased fire power and the power of warp). Every enemy will make him their priority target.

Group domination: Enemies over a large area are affected, regardless of shield, barrier or armor and will fire upon each other. No one will receive a barrier or any other boost.



Dominatrix: The enemy will think of you as their lover, he will stop shooting and slowly stumble toward you, regardless or fhield or armor. Biotic barriers will stop this.

Whisper: The affected enemy (if he does not have barrier) will scream stuff like: "no, get out of my head, aaaargh!" for 5 seonds, before he shoots himself.

[wizardryforever]

More powers!  I try to keep my examples relatively balanced so they aren't gamebreakingly powerful, while keeping them relatively easy to implement.  I kinda think a power that penetrates defenses should be a single target power, not something that affects a group, since that's kinda overpowered. 

AI hacking leads to Improved hacking or Area hacking.  Improved Hacking -> Kamikaze AI or Advanced AI.  Area Hacking -> Taunting AI or Contagious AI

Kamikaze AI = The hacked AI charges into the nearest enemy (its speed is boosted considerably) and explodes, dealing concussive damage that knocks unprotected enemies down.

Advanced AI = The hacked AI now has improved tactics capability.  It will use cover and prioritize targets.  It also has more shield than any other hacked AI.  This gives you something close to a real ally and not just cannon fodder.

Taunting AI = The AI(s) somehow seems more dangerous to enemies, causing them to focus fire on it.  This could give you a breather, and keeps you from having to kill the AI after the hacking wears off.

Contagious AI = Upon being hacked, the AI(s) will spread their new algorithms to unprotected AIs that get too close, affecting more AIs.  Inspired by Overlord.

Hmm.  How about Warp Ammo?  Warp ammo (like other ammos) leads to heavy or squad.  Heavy -> Catalyst Ammo or Reave Ammo.  Squad -> Amplifier Ammo or Barrier Piercing Ammo.

Catalyst Ammo = Shots of Warp ammo now set off Warp explosions, but for only 75% of the normal explosion damage.  This can be compensated by combining with Volatile Pull or Unstable Singularity.

Reave Ammo = Shots of warp ammo now steal barrier and health (not shields or armor) and give them to Shepard.

Amplifier Ammo = Teammates (and Shepard) get a boost to overall biotic damage with Warp ammo equipped.

Barrier Piercing Ammo = Warp Ammo now deals exceptional damage to biotic barriers, some ridiculously high percentage like triple damage or something.

Surely more than the three of us have ideas?  Show us your stuff guys (and girls)!

Modifié par wizardryforever, 01 septembre 2010 - 11:20 .

[wizardryforever]

Nobody?

[wizardryforever]

Perhaps more are in order?  Charge leads to Heavy Charge or Area Charge.  Heavy Charge -> Returning Charge or Power Charge.  Area Charge -> Chain Charge or Surge.

Returning Charge = After the knockback and slowdown effects of Charge wear off, Shepard is returned to his/her point of origin.  However, shields are not restored (or maybe only half).  This could be useful to "get in and get out" quickly, without dying.  As a side effect, the return ability will knockback anyone in your initial position, though you won't get the time slowdown on the return.

Power Charge = The Charge now sends enemies flying much further than normal, and they take longer to recover, though slowdown is not affected.

Chain Charge = If enemies are spaced apart a fair distance from each other, Shepard Charges a second and third time immediately after the first Charge, for less damage and knockback each time.

Surge = Shepard Charges much faster than normal, doubling the time in which time seems to slow upon hitting the target.

This is a good topic I hope.

Modifié par wizardryforever, 01 septembre 2010 - 11:19 .

[BlackbirdSR-71C]

Suggestion: What about being able to purchse 2 of these options per power at the price of skill points?

[wizardryforever]

BlackbirdSR-71C wrote...

Suggestion: What about being able to purchse 2 of these options per power at the price of skill points?

Good idea, I'm just not sure how that would work with the game engine and the power wheel.  If it could be done, maybe spend the same amount of points to get both (separate) versions of it.  Combining two versions seems a little overpowered to me, just my opinion.  But having both as options sounds viable.  As long as they are both options along your current path.

My idea of the way points will work is that you have the current system with rank 1 being one point, rank 2 being two points, and so on.  But then when the power is evolved, the cost resets, with rank 5 being one point, rank 6 being two points, up to the final rank 8 being four points.  I think this keeps the powers balanced.  As a general statement (not directed at anyone) I think returning to a ME1 style level-up system would be a step backward, making upper level powers too accessible for low level characters.  Getting to the last rank should be an investment, one that hopefully pays off.  If a return to ME1 style level-up was implemented, the second evolution of skills would need to be watered down to prevent overpowered skills.  As it is, the cost in skill points is a good price for these powerful abilities.

This is all just my opinion of course, not saying I'm definitely right or anything.

Modifié par wizardryforever, 01 septembre 2010 - 10:56 .

[FuturePasTimeCE]

evolve me then

[FuturePasTimeCE]

wizardryforever wrote...

BlackbirdSR-71C wrote...

Suggestion: What about being able to purchse 2 of these options per power at the price of skill points?

Good idea, I'm just not sure how that would work with the game engine and the power wheel.  If it could be done, maybe spend the same amount of points to get both (separate) versions of it.  Combining two versions seems a little overpowered to me, just my opinion.  But having both as options sounds viable.  As long as they are both options along your current path.

My idea of the way points will work is that you have the current system with rank 1 being one point, rank 2 being two points, and so on.  But then when the power is evolved, the cost resets, with rank 5 being one point, rank 6 being two points, up to the final rank 8 being four points.  I think this keeps the powers balanced.  As a general statement (not directed at anyone) I think returning to a ME1 style level-up system would be a step backward, making upper level powers too accessible for low level characters.  Getting to the last rank should be an investment, one that hopefully pays off.  If a return to ME1 style level-up was implemented, the second evolution of skills would need to be watered down to prevent overpowered skills.  As it is, the cost in skill points is a good price for these powerful abilities.

robots are as stupid as retarded monkey fetuses... they need the monkey fetuses in order to feel superior in intellect... which is why monkey fetuses exist.

[PWENER]

This tread just turned into a "make a new power" game.

Adept specific class power:

Singularis: The singularity's reach, number of targets and duration is taken to it's maximun (ei. 60 second duration, 10 targets and 20 meter reach).

Dark Singularity: When the singularity is warped, it literally "warps" enemies out of the map (works like the "Blackstorm" heavy weapon).

Vanguard specific class power:

Sonic Charge: Instead of charging the charge, you instantly perform it and are given a window of 5.5 sec. to unload on your enemy before going back to real time.

Imploding Charge: You become a biotic rocket charging at your enemy and exploding in a biotic bomb as you hit your target, sending nearby enemies flying.

Modifié par PWENER, 01 septembre 2010 - 11:29 .

[wizardryforever]

PWENER wrote...

This tread just turned into a "make a new power" game.

Adept specific class power:

Singularis: The singularity's reach, number of targets and duration is taken to it's maximun (ei. 60 second duration, 10 targets and 20 meter reach).

Dark Singularity: When the singularity is warped, it literally [i]"warps" enemies out of the map (works like the "Blackstorm" heavy weapon).

Vanguard specific class power:

Sonic Charge: Instead of charging the charge, you instantly perform it and are given a window of 5.5 sec. to unload on your enemy before going back to real time.

Imploding Charge: You become a biotic rocket charging at your enemy and exploding in a biotic bomb as you hit your target, sending nearby enemies flying.

Would these be available to both Heavy and Area versions?  I like the way you think (about this topic at least).

Oh and to anyone who may not know, the new thread title is a Bioshock reference.

[PWENER]

wizardryforever wrote...

PWENER wrote...

This tread just turned into a "make a new power" game.

Adept specific class power:

Singularis: The singularity's reach, number of targets and duration is taken to it's maximun (ei. 60 second duration, 10 targets and 20 meter reach).

Dark Singularity: When the singularity is warped, it literally [i]"warps" enemies out of the map (works like the "Blackstorm" heavy weapon).

Vanguard specific class power:

Sonic Charge: Instead of charging the charge, you instantly perform it and are given a window of 5.5 sec. to unload on your enemy before going back to real time.

Imploding Charge: You become a biotic rocket charging at your enemy and exploding in a biotic bomb as you hit your target, sending nearby enemies flying.

Would these be available to both Heavy and Area versions?  I like the way you think (about this topic at least).

Oh and to anyone who may not know, the new thread title is a Bioshock reference.

Thanks, Im an aspiring writer so it comes natural to me. Want me to do more?

Nice BIOSHOCK reference btw, didn't see it the first time.

Heavy ver. is for Singularis & Imploding Charge/Area ver. is for Dark Singularity & Sonic Charge (hope I got that right).

Modifié par PWENER, 01 septembre 2010 - 11:36 .

[BlackbirdSR-71C]

wizardryforever wrote...

BlackbirdSR-71C wrote...

Suggestion: What about being able to purchse 2 of these options per power at the price of skill points?

Good idea, I'm just not sure how that would work with the game engine and the power wheel.  If it could be done, maybe spend the same amount of points to get both (separate) versions of it.  Combining two versions seems a little overpowered to me, just my opinion.  But having both as options sounds viable.  As long as they are both options along your current path.

My idea of the way points will work is that you have the current system with rank 1 being one point, rank 2 being two points, and so on.  But then when the power is evolved, the cost resets, with rank 5 being one point, rank 6 being two points, up to the final rank 8 being four points.  I think this keeps the powers balanced.  As a general statement (not directed at anyone) I think returning to a ME1 style level-up system would be a step backward, making upper level powers too accessible for low level characters.  Getting to the last rank should be an investment, one that hopefully pays off.  If a return to ME1 style level-up was implemented, the second evolution of skills would need to be watered down to prevent overpowered skills.  As it is, the cost in skill points is a good price for these powerful abilities.

This is all just my opinion of course, not saying I'm definitely right or anything.

There's also the possibility of giving the second effect for any ability 3 times the price in skill points, or whatever for that reason, just so that it isn't overpowered. That way you could technically spen all your skill points in your favorite ability and it would be really powerful, however you'd have to trade in several/all other abilities for it.

[wizardryforever]

PWENER wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

PWENER wrote...

This tread just turned into a "make a new power" game.

Adept specific class power:

Singularis: The singularity's reach, number of targets and duration is taken to it's maximun (ei. 60 second duration, 10 targets and 20 meter reach).

Dark Singularity: When the singularity is warped, it literally [i]"warps" enemies out of the map (works like the "Blackstorm" heavy weapon).

Vanguard specific class power:

Sonic Charge: Instead of charging the charge, you instantly perform it and are given a window of 5.5 sec. to unload on your enemy before going back to real time.

Imploding Charge: You become a biotic rocket charging at your enemy and exploding in a biotic bomb as you hit your target, sending nearby enemies flying.

Would these be available to both Heavy and Area versions?  I like the way you think (about this topic at least).

Oh and to anyone who may not know, the new thread title is a Bioshock reference.

Thanks, Im an aspiring writer so it comes natural to me. Want me to do more?

Nice BIOSHOCK reference btw, didn't see it the first time.

Definitely!  That's part of why I started this thread.  How about Adrenaline Rush or Tactical Cloak?  I can't seem to come up with anything good for them.  I'd also appreciate knowing what others think of my ideas, if they sound good or not.

Modifié par wizardryforever, 01 septembre 2010 - 11:36 .

[Destroy Raiden_]

I just want to be able to flay people with my mind