90 réponses à ce sujet

[robtheguru]

How about the introduction of a pet class using Mechs?



Start with the basics and move right up to YMIR. Maybe even make appearance customisable like coloured armour plating.

[The Spamming Troll]

id like to see biotics be used more then just pull, throw, or slam. how about the biotic ability "squish enemies skull" or "rip off enemies arm or face." im pretty sure if i had an L2 amp and was a level 30 adept, i wouldnt be just throwing someone against a wall, as much as id be ripping off limbs and crushing skulls. to me thats the deffinition of "the best class for taking out enemies without use of weappons." and more importantly its what i see the potential of mass effet being. if only bioware could see that same.......

wizardryforever wrote...

Oh there are certainly times when it is better to use something besides Singularity, namely when you wish to push said enemies off a cliff, or have the enemies move off in a different direction.  It is also a huge difference between Rank 1 Singularity and Rank 4 Singularity (regardless of Heavy or Wide), simply because it lasts much longer and can hold more enemies.  Since the Singularity expires when it reaches its holding limit, this is quite valuable.  Singularity is supposed to be better than other biotics, since it is class-exclusive.  Also note that most of my ideas for biotics allow for a version that penetrates defenses, so I took that into account.

Trust me, the difference may not be something flashy, but the percent increase in damage, duration, and area of biotics increases dramatically upon level up in ME2.  Read the stats for them in the level up screen, some of them double their effectiveness!  And the relative blandness of the current evolutions is part of why I started this thread, to make things more interesting and rewarding the next time powers are evolved.

is throw a biotic power or is singularity? becaseu they are both exactly the same thing, but entirely different in effectiveness. singularity and the other 6 class specific abilites are the exceptions to the rule, obviously. but your idea for abilities that work on protected enemies is flawed. that doesnt allow for more choice or freedom in abilities, all that does is mean every player that plays on higher difficulties will use that specific version of that ability. that doesnt make me want to replay a game as much as it makes me question its purpose.

no, i dont think ill trust you. ill trust what ive seen in both ME1 and ME2. the only thing leveling up throw in ME1 did was allow me to use it on collosus and that krogan on therum. my gameplay didnt change once i got throw from basic to master. and i think thats the whole point of this argument, whats the best gameplay we can get for ME3.

dont talk to me about what "the description says" becasue spectre training sucks. hopefully you know what im talking about.

[wizardryforever]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

is throw a biotic power or is singularity? becaseu they are both exactly the same thing, but entirely different in effectiveness. singularity and the other 6 class specific abilites are the exceptions to the rule, obviously. but your idea for abilities that work on protected enemies is flawed. that doesnt allow for more choice or freedom in abilities, all that does is mean every player that plays on higher difficulties will use that specific version of that ability. that doesnt make me want to replay a game as much as it makes me question its purpose.

no, i dont think ill trust you. ill trust what ive seen in both ME1 and ME2. the only thing leveling up throw in ME1 did was allow me to use it on collosus and that krogan on therum. my gameplay didnt change once i got throw from basic to master. and i think thats the whole point of this argument, whats the best gameplay we can get for ME3.

dont talk to me about what "the description says" becasue spectre training sucks. hopefully you know what im talking about.

The reason why I don't make all of the abilities penetrate is because then all biotic classes would play the same, the very thing that you decry about biotics.  The penetrating version does nothing special other than penetrate defenses, whereas all the others do something unique and powerful.  These are valid choices because the penetrating ability is a convenience, not a particularly powerful ability on its own.  If all biotics penetrated defenses, every difficulty would be a walk in the park for biotic classes.  The other options offered are not worthless when you consider that you have been breaching defenses for the whole game prior to the second evolution, and the evolved power is significantly more powerful or at least interesting than the regular version.

Fine, don't believe me.  Don't believe the game stats and your own eyes while you're at it.  Don't believe all the other people who have playtested these things countless times either.  Disagree with me if you want, but you don't have to be a jerkass about it.

[The Spamming Troll]

sorry long day of work.

i didnt read your ability ideas but its not hard to imagine what some of the ideas would be. i appreciate choice in abilities as in throw, pull, and slam, but i dont feel theres a need for a variety in one of those specific abilities.

penetrating defenses is what makes insanity, insanity. any character that didnt take your penetration route would be severely lacking in terms of usable abilities. you havent found a use for throw, slam or pull on protected enemies have you?

bioware needs to change their level scaling. it shouldnt have started with "give enemies protections that nullifies all abilitties" when they were making insanity. insanity should have more enemies, more difficult enemies, and something that i think is really lacking in terms of gameplay, is enemy biotic/tech use. as much as i hate getting knocked out of cover by harbinger only to do a stupid head shake animation, i really liked that fact that ME1 enemies put my ass on the ground every once in a while. those are things that make need better tactics, not whipping a layer of "whatthehell" and making, one of the main reasons im playing a game like ME, stopping me from using my presiouse abilities.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 21 septembre 2010 - 04:50 .

[Revan312]

I just think defenses, ie shields/barriers -> armor -> health is a ridiculous implementation. imo, susceptibility to abilities/powers should simply be a cumulative background count. If I throw pull at a minion it should pull him, regardless of defense, if I throw it at an LT (things like the vanguards and engineers.. two tier defense enemies, shields -> health) or a boss (three tier defense enemies, shields -> armor -> health), they should resist it up to a point..



Say first ability on a minion and it works, second to third ability on a LT and it works, fourth to fifth ability on a boss and it works.. That would mean your having to widdle them down with abilities before they work rather than churning through 2 bars of defense before they reach health, which the ability is pretty much nullified by that point because health pools are so small in ME2, once they hit health, I can shoot em down extremely fast, so why throw an ability at them?



With cumulative susceptibility it means that if you don't produce a whole lot of damage from your firearms you can still effect the enemies eventually, meaning powers actually do have a place again on higher difficulties.



Regardless, I do like your evolutions wizardryforever, I'll try and think of some of my own too

[wizardryforever]

It's worth noting here that not everyone plays on the upper difficulties (I do, by the way), and thus the choice is not as obvious as it seems.  If all abilities are balanced for upper-difficulty play, then they will be ridiculously overpowered on the mid and low difficulties.  Of course one could argue that all abilities are overpowered on low difficulties, just like one could argue that abilities are underpowered on upper difficulties.  We need to keep this in perspective.

How about this, biotics will penetrate one layer of defenses in addition to the properties I listed (once evolved of course), and the penetrating version will penetrate two layers, though it will still have a reduced effect on big bosses like Collosi and Praetorians (but not Scions or Harbinger).  Does that work better?

[The Spamming Troll]

i think your missing the point here. were not saying abilities should be balanced at insanity instead of casual, what were saying is abilities should be equally as effective regardless of difficulty level. you seem to be into bioware and wizards so i can only assume youve played dragon age. now imagin playing a mage, and having to use a crossbow untill you wittled down enemy defenses in order to use your abilities. i mean really, how can anyone with any kind of videogame experience come up with the idea bioware came up with for harder difficulties in ME2. they made the game harder by taking the game away. im an adept who cant use their abilities. it makes no sense.

i would assume most players play veteran or hardcore, and its in between those two difficulties is where the biggest change in terms of game play comes.

honestly i dont understand the whole problem with being over powered. in ME2 alone theres much more terrifying enemies then shepard including harbinger. shepard is anything but overpowered. if it was up to me id give Shepard all 6 class specific skills and the revenant, but thats just me. biotics in ME1 made shepard really untouchable, but i still played that game over 30 times. if shepard isnt overpowered, then whats the point of the lazerouse project in the first place? that would make it only seem like nobody needed shepard except TIM.

maybe shepard is a reeaper.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 21 septembre 2010 - 11:35 .

[wizardryforever]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

i think your missing the point here. were not saying abilities should be balanced at insanity instead of casual, what were saying is abilities should be equally as effective regardless of difficulty level. you seem to be into bioware and wizards so i can only assume youve played dragon age. now imagin playing a mage, and having to use a crossbow untill you wittled down enemy defenses in order to use your abilities. i mean really, how can anyone with any kind of videogame experience come up with the idea bioware came up with for harder difficulties in ME2. they made the game harder by taking the game away. im an adept who cant use their abilities. it makes no sense.

i would assume most players play veteran or hardcore, and its in between those two difficulties is where the biggest change in terms of game play comes.

honestly i dont understand the whole problem with being over powered. in ME2 alone theres much more terrifying enemies then shepard including harbinger. shepard is anything but overpowered. if it was up to me id give Shepard all 6 class specific skills and the revenant, but thats just me. biotics in ME1 made shepard really untouchable, but i still played that game over 30 times. if shepard isnt overpowered, then whats the point of the lazerouse project in the first place? nobody needed shepard except TIM.

I'm aware that the whole "defenses stop biotics" thing is ridiculous, I'm just trying to work within the system here.  I'm not going to be one of those people that belittles Bioware and then demands that they cater to my whims.  Thus, I'm trying to come up with ideas without radically changing the way the game works.

The issue with something being overpowered is that a game with overpowered powers and skills becomes stale really quickly as the player can easily steamroll over the enemy, even on the highest difficulty.  You haven't played any games with grossly overpowered abilities apparently.  It isn't all it's cracked up to be.  If you come across a game like that, with an abilitiy that becomes an "I win" button, you get bored after one playthrough, maybe not even that.

And yes, I've played Dragon Age.  See the little Dragon Age icon below my avatar (next to the Mass Effect 2 icon)?

[The Spamming Troll]

well like i said, i loved being so called overpowered with biotics in ME1. i played the absolute crap out of ME1, no doubt. it was the single reason i owned an xbox and the single reason that got me hooked on videogames, more specifically RPGs. im not sure what being overpowered is maybe because im not a stat cruncher i just put the points in what looks best, even spectre training. level 60 SHOULD be overpowered, its game over. in ME1 theres a huge difference between a level 10 character and a level 60. in ME2 theres not so much a difference in abilities comparing level 5 to 30 as there is a difference in weapons you acquire throughout the game. which is another reason im not so thrilled with ME2, its emphasis on weapon play.

combat changed drastically between me1 and me2. dont assume ME2s combat is the final product. ive played a few games and ME2 is really awesome combat but it could be better. youve got some ideas on abilities and i think thats great, there truely isnt an end to the ideas one could think of. it does at variation, which can create some gameplay difference but ive got other ideas. id love to get into it but i feel like ive written enough.

i guess i could have deduced shields with dragons in a bioware forum probably means dragon age but i smoke alot of pot. its the best way to play ME anyways.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 22 septembre 2010 - 02:20 .

[wizardryforever]

The Spamming Troll wrote...
i guess i could have deduced shields with dragons in a bioware forum probably means dragon age but i smoke alot of pot. its the best way to play ME anyways.

Really?  I never would have guessed. 

[wizardryforever]

Surely someone else has some ideas? Even critique is fine, as long as it's constructive.

Modifié par wizardryforever, 30 septembre 2010 - 08:42 .

[wizardryforever]

You know what would be awesome? Discussion. I'd love some of that.

[wizardryforever]

Just in case people haven't seen this: bump.

Modifié par wizardryforever, 26 octobre 2010 - 11:03 .

[wizardryforever]

Well, now that ME3 is on the horizon, does anyone think any of this is likely to happen?  Naturally, I'd love it to, but I have to wonder how drastically they plan on changing the gameplay (my guess, not much).

[ADelusiveMan]

This is actually a pretty good idea. When I saw the thread title I wasn't too sure, but to be honest I kind of like this idea. I honestly think ME1's 'level up' system was great. It's too easy to level up in ME2.

[kidbd15]

Maybe something similar to DA2 level trees... that's what this reminded me of.

[daxmeister]

This idea is ridiculously good and I love you, OP. That would allow for so much customisability with your Shepard, really making them "Your own". Even better if they add a function where you can pick and choose which types of weapons you want to take with you, but that's a seperate point. So, to make this response more worthwhile than just saying "I love you" and rambling, I'll try and think of one.

Hardened Adrenaline Rush -> Regenerating Adrenaline Rush, Impossible Adrenaline Rush (needs a better name).
Heightened Adrenaline Rush -> Pausing Adrenaline Rush (needs better name, again), Enraged Adrenaline Rush.

Regenerating = During an Adrenaline Rush, your body heals itself much quicker than normal. + 50% / 60% regeneration speed.

Impossible = During an Adrenaline Rush, you ignore all but the most grievous wounds. - 90% damage taken.

Pausing = During an Adrenaline Rush, time pretty much DOES stand still. 90% time dilation.

Enraged = During an Adrenaline Rush, your damage goes off the charts. 250% damage dealt. Alternatively, something along the lines of 400% melee damage.


How about Concussive Shot? That has potential.

Heavy Concussive Shot -> Guided Concussive Shot, Anti-Materiel Concussive Shot.
Concussive Blast -> Concussive Explosion, Concussive Incendiaries. (alternative to Incendiaries: Concussive Soundwave)

Guided = Allows for indirect fire support. Now "curves" like a Warp, allowing it to hit enemies who are behind cover.

Anti-Materiel = Turns your Concussive Shot into a Hand Cannon. Deals large amounts of damage on hit.

Explosion = Just add grenade launcher. Very wide radius, knocks enemies to the ground and deals damage.

Incendiaries = Deals much less force damage, but ignites enemies within the radius.

Soundwave = Deals much less force damage and much less damage, but "stuns" all enemies in a wide radius for several seconds.


Just my input, the values may be under/overpowered, but I'm not a game tester.

X

Modifié par daxmeister, 24 mars 2011 - 02:51 .

[SNascimento]

I agree with it. The more diverse ME classes become the better. In ME2 we have a great improvement in this aspect, with each class feeling very different from the other. However, when we pick 2 shepards from the same class they will probably play similar. Having the option to personalize your class is a natural evolution that I expect to see in ME3.

[wizardryforever]

Well thanks. This idea just came to me while I was bored in class one day, and I started brainstorming instead of listening to the professor's incoherent rambling.

[TelexFerra]

I whole heartedly support this concept

[wizardryforever]

Been a while since I added new examples, so I'll do a couple.  Neural Shock leads to Heavy Neural Shock or Neural Shockwave.  Heavy Neural Shock -> Electrochemical Shock or Amplifying Shock; Neural Shockwave -> Suggestive Shock or Crippling Shock

Electrochemical Shock = Neural Shock now affects synthetics for a lesser duration.  This makes Neural Shock a go-to power for single target control!

Amplifying Shock = After being hit with a Neural Shock, the target takes double damage from all attacks.

Suggestive Shock = Upon recovering from the shock, the subject(s) is disoriented, and attacks whoever is closest, friend or foe.

Crippling Shock = The Neural Shock now seriously impairs movement speed and accuracy upon recovery.

Barrier leads to Heavy Barrier or Improved Barrier.  Heavy Barrier -> Impervious Barrier or Persistent Barrier; Improved Barrier leads to Team Barrier or Adrenaline Barrier.

Impervious Barrier = The barrier now reduces damage by 50%, and blocks the effect of "ragdolling" biotics (but not Warp).

Persistent Barrier = When the barrier drops, another barrier immediately goes up, though only at 50% strength of the original.

Team Barrier = Using barrier now projects a barrier for the entire team, including combat drones and hacked AI (or dominated organics), though at only half the strength of the barrier of the caster.

Adrenaline Barrier = When the barrier drops, the caster experiences a time slowdown effect, similar to Adrenaline Rush.  This effect gives the caster time to escape from the encounter, or press the attack while the enemy is vulnerable.

Come on, someone else must have ideas!  

[daxmeister]

I'm not anyone "new", but I realised that all I've suggested have been Soldier-exclusive powers.

Energy Drain -> Heavy Energy Drain, Area Drain.
Heavy Energy Drain -> Stunning Energy Drain, Armored Energy Drain.
Area Drain -> Squad Energy Drain, Arc Energy Drain.

Stunning = Your Energy Drain is so violent that it temporarily stuns enemies, provided their defences are dropped by the drain.

Armored = Your Energy Drain boosts shielding so much that it actually provides you with Tech Armor upon use.

Squad = Upon use, shielding is boosted for your entire squad.

Arc = Upon use, the drain will "jump" to other enemies outside of its radius for a weaker, additional drain.

__________

Disruptor Ammo -> Heavy Disruptor Ammo, Squad Disruptor Ammo.
Heavy Disruptor Ammo -> Shock Ammo, Corona Ammo. (love that name, actually.)
Squad Disruptor Ammo -> Drain Ammo, Sabotage Ammo.

Shock = Your rounds now have a high chance of stunning synthetics and a low chance of stunning normal enemies.

Corona = Your rounds now have a small radius, allowing you to disable an entire squads shielding and weapons.

Drain = Your rounds now drain some shielding, restoring it to you.

Sabotage = Your rounds have a much higher chance of jamming enemy weaponry.

__________

I haven't actually seen any examples of the passive class powers in this context, so:

Operative -> Assassin, Agent.
Assassin -> Sniper, Marksman.
Agent -> Rogue, Ghost.

Sniper = While aiming down the scope, time briefly stands still, and your weapon damage is increased even further. (designed for the Mantis and the Widow)

Marksman = While aiming, the time dilation effect seems to last much longer. (designed for the Viper and the Incisor)

Rogue = Your powers recharge much more quickly than usual.

Ghost = Your powers last much longer than usual.

For the class specialisations, I was thinking they would be more "choose your playstyle" rather than "choose your upgrade".  Sniper is for Infiltrators that like to use their rifle to take down the toughest targets before finishing the rest with an SMG. Marksman is for those who like to use semi-auto rifles, staying scoped in and firing several slow-motion shots. Rogue is for people who like to cloak, attack, and then cloak again quickly. Ghost is for those who like to cloak and then STAY cloaked.

X.

Modifié par daxmeister, 25 mars 2011 - 03:21 .

[Lvl20DM]

I'd like to see the return of class specializations in ME3. Instead of a class "power" that we evolve, we choose a new "sub-class" at some point (maybe story related or level related). The specialization would grant certain benefits on a passive basis, and would give access to a unique power. As an example, the Soldier could have access to Shocktrooper or Commando. The Shocktrooper gains damage resistance and perhaps a boost to health or shields - he also gains access to the Fortification power. Fortification could even work a little like Tech Armor, since it would only be available to Shocktroopers and would be easier to balance.

[apotheosic]

Yes please. I very much like this idea.

Also bring back damping.

[wizardryforever]

So hey, new idea.  How about making the passives give special "prestige" classes upon final evolution?  These classes enhance one or two of the skills that are used by the base class, sorta like the specialty classes in ME1.  Like have one of the classes emphasize a skill in a unique way, then have the other classes do something similar (but still quite different) with another skill.  Perhaps have some overlap between what's available for certain classes.  Like an Infiltrator will have one in common with a Soldier and a unique one on one path, and one in common with an Engineer and another unique on the other path.

Unfortunately, I can't think of any good examples right now, so I'll just illustrate my point with generics.

Assassin -> Soldier shared or Unique 1; Operative -> Engineer shared or Unique 2

The same principle would apply to all the other classes.  Soldiers would share with Infiltrators and Vanguards one class each, Engineers would share with Infiltrators and Sentinels one each, and Adepts would share with Vanguards and Sentinels one each.  This would link the classes together in some ways while allowing them to remain unique in others.

Thoughts?