272 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave of Canada]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Why does Prince keep telling Jav how to moderate?

Royalty tend to do that.

[upsettingshorts]

The topic also relies on another assumption, that only nerdy/geeky/socially awkward males think nerdy/geeky/socially awkward females are attractive.

[kglaser]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

The topic also relies on another assumption, that only nerdy/geeky/socially awkward males think nerdy/geeky/socially awkward females are attractive.

Now I would definitely assume that blanket statement isn't true.
(However, as a 41-year-old married female, I may be out of it somewhat.)

[MajesticJazz]

Siansonea II wrote...



I don't think it's 'rocket surgery'. The various LIs were made to be distinctly different from one another, so they would appeal to a wide range of demographics. Liara is the passive female in ME1, Ashley the aggressive. Liara also appeals to those who like 'exotic', while Ashley appeals to those who like 'familiar'. In ME2, they widen the field a bit. In addition to the option of staying loyal to Liara or Ashley, ManShep can hit the sheets with Miranda, Jack, or Tali. Miranda would appeal to the guys who find models and pretty actresses appealing and guys that like somewhat dominating women; Jack would appeal to those who like iconoclastic/alternative females and those who like 'damaged' girls; and Tali would appeal to guys who like the 'damsel in distress' and 'plucky heroine' archetype. Tali also has an undetermined face, so she appeals to those who like mystery/mystique. All of the females have very different body types (except for Liara and Ashley, of course), to broaden the potential base of appeal. Throw Kelly and Samara into the mix, and you have the cute-girl-next-door-with-no-strings and the hot-milf-that-turns-you-down-cold. And then there's Morinth, the ultimate Femme Fatale. There really is something for everyone.



Everyone except us women, that is. I mean, Kaidan is great, but Jacob? Thane? Garrus?! This is what happens when you let a bunch of dudes design LIs for women.

Nice reply



You are right in the idea that Bioware did a great job defining each female for the males. However, I think the male LIs or somewhat varied as well.



Kaiden is that "hot hunk" who is nice, somewhat shy, but also very manly. Jacob is the more introvert guy who doesn't like to talk about himself as much, but once you really get to know him (possibly in ME3), you would find a very interesting guy. Thane is the cool guy who is very respectful and romantic who likes to takes things slow. Garrus is like that co-worker who you are friends with, but somehow....you feel in love with him or you feel in lust with.

javierabegazo wrote...



I'll see where this goes in the next page or so, but if it takes a turn down the wrong road, it's getting shut down.

Isn't that the logic that should be applied to all threads?

[Siansonea]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

The topic also relies on another assumption, that only nerdy/geeky/socially awkward males think nerdy/geeky/socially awkward females are attractive.

Indeed. The favored LIs really just illustrate the type of women that are favored, not the specific attributes of the players themselves. Some informal polls have been done around here, and it has been noted that Tali LI fans tend to trend younger than the fans of other LIs, but no other specific demographic information was gathered, regarding such unquantifiables as 'geekyness/nerdiness'.

[kglaser]

Siansonea II wrote...

Everyone except us women, that is. I mean, Kaidan is great, but Jacob? Thane? Garrus?! This is what happens when you let a bunch of dudes design LIs for women.

OK, I missed this the first time (damn wine).  Garrus is an LI because a whole bunch of fans clamored for it, so what's with the italics?

[drunken pyromaniac]

@OP
...You do realize women aren't just a puzzle to be unraveled, right? They're just like men in that different women find different things attractive. There isn't any decoder ring or something like that.

Modifié par drunken pyromaniac, 01 septembre 2010 - 04:57 .

[Sidac]

For me it came down to something as simple as...

Would I rather start a relationship with this poetry laden bigot or a relativly quiet and easy to talk to blue npc? Miranda is a **** in spandex and tali is twitchy and unsure of herself.

[LPPrince]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Why does Prince keep telling Jav how to moderate?

I do?

I think I only made a couple of suggestions the last few days. Eh, maybe its habit. I've got a lot of modding experience on other boards and in chat rooms, etc etc.

Gotta watch myself so I don't ghost mod or anything.

[LPPrince]

Dave of Canada wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Why does Prince keep telling Jav how to moderate?

Royalty tend to do that.

It DOES, actually.

[MajesticJazz]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

The topic also relies on another assumption, that only nerdy/geeky/socially awkward males think nerdy/geeky/socially awkward females are attractive.

That might seem like an undertone but that isn't what I was trying to say. There are nerdy guys and geeky guys who do not find Liara and Tali attractive as they'll go for the other 3 women. Then there are...I guess you can say....the alpha males or the cool guys who would find Tali and Liara attractive over the other 3 women. There are variances to everything.

This is what someone said about Tali in another forum: "Perhaps because she takes the role of the purely submissive love interest (see: Liara in ME), and many people are averse to confrontation."

[Siansonea]

MajesticJazz wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...
*snipped

Nice reply

You are right in the idea that Bioware did a great job defining each female for the males. However, I think the male LIs or somewhat varied as well.

Kaiden is that "hot hunk" who is nice, somewhat shy, but also very manly. Jacob is the more introvert guy who doesn't like to talk about himself as much, but once you really get to know him (possibly in ME3), you would find a very interesting guy. Thane is the cool guy who is very respectful and romantic who likes to takes things slow. Garrus is like that co-worker who you are friends with, but somehow....you feel in love with him or you feel in lust with.

Kaidan had the advantage of the developer's undivided attention, I think, and for me was the best of the three romances in ME1. I think the ME2 male LIs suffer from a lack of finesse and polish. Jacob's romance has a bad case of Badwritingitis, while (to me at least) Garrus and Thane's romances suffer from a lack of substance, buildup, and depth. They all suffer from a lack of real emotional resonance, but the same can be said of some of the ME2 female romances (I'm mainly thinking of Miranda and Kelly here). Ironically, I think the most emotionally resonant "romances" in ME2 are Jack's and the Samara non-romance.

[kglaser]

MajesticJazz, I appreciate what you're trying to do here, but I wonder if there is just no pattern, and people just...like what they like. Everyone is really so different as you say.

[ciaweth]

Let me restate the topic's title so you understand what you've asked, here.



"Is Ashley/Miranda/Jack popular female LIs because they appeal [sic] the jock-y/dimwitted/fraternitard males?"



The answer either way is this: No. That is not why they're popular. Different personalities and looks appeal to different people, and BioWare is accommodating that. That's all. Nothing to see here, no LI wars to freak out over.

[Siansonea]

kglaser wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Everyone except us women, that is. I mean, Kaidan is great, but Jacob? Thane? Garrus?! This is what happens when you let a bunch of dudes design LIs for women.

OK, I missed this the first time (damn wine).  Garrus is an LI because a whole bunch of fans clamored for it, so what's with the italics?

Just that his romance seems to come out of nowhere, seems to be rather shallow emotionally (especially the way it starts out), though the whole thing is saved to an extent by the awkwardness of the cabin scene and the head bump.

[MajesticJazz]

drunken pyromaniac wrote...

@OP
...You do realize women aren't just a puzzle to be unraveled, right? They're just like men in that different women find different things attractive. There isn't any decoder ring or something like that.

I am fully aware of that as there are variances to everything. I am just saying that based on what I've seen in real life (talking to many male gamers who played ME).....it was most of the time the over the top nerd or geek guy who ****d over Tali/Liara whereas the cool/nightlife type guy would find Miranda, Ashley or even Jack more attractive.

Modifié par MajesticJazz, 01 septembre 2010 - 05:05 .

[LPPrince]

In the end, I feel it depends on the person.



Some people fall for the Mirandas in life(The Attractive and Unavailable Ice Queens), the Jacks(The Hard on the outside, Soft on the inside Troubled Psycho), the Talis(The Sensitive Hopeless Romantic that finds their special someone) and the Kellys(The Warm and Welcoming Friend that becomes more).

[Siansonea]

MajesticJazz wrote...

drunken pyromaniac wrote...

@OP
...You do realize women aren't just a puzzle to be unraveled, right? They're just like men in that different women find different things attractive. There isn't any decoder ring or something like that.

I am fully aware of that as there are variances to everything. I am just saying that based on what I've seen in real life (talking to many male gamers who played ME).....it was most of the time the over the top nerd or geek guy who ****d over Tali/Liara whereas the cool/nightlife type guy would find Miranda, Ashley or even Jack more attractive.

Here's where the slope gets slippery...

Trying to categorize gamers in such uncomplimentary terms is very likely to turn this thread from a civil discussion into a less productive and engaging discussion.

[kglaser]

Siansonea II wrote...

kglaser wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Everyone except us women, that is. I mean, Kaidan is great, but Jacob? Thane? Garrus?! This is what happens when you let a bunch of dudes design LIs for women.

OK, I missed this the first time (damn wine).  Garrus is an LI because a whole bunch of fans clamored for it, so what's with the italics?

Just that his romance seems to come out of nowhere, seems to be rather shallow emotionally (especially the way it starts out), though the whole thing is saved to an extent by the awkwardness of the cabin scene and the head bump.

I understand what you mean now.  Thanks for explaining.

[MajesticJazz]

kglaser wrote...

MajesticJazz, I appreciate what you're trying to do here, but I wonder if there is just no pattern, and people just...like what they like. Everyone is really so different as you say.

There are variances to everything as I said before, but there is also patterns to many things.

The unfortunate thing about stereotypes is....that....for the most part they are true. Not all of us African-Americans list Hip Hop/R&B as our most favorite musical genres....but most do. Not all Frat boys are conceited party boys....but most are.

The stereotype that male gamers are social awkward and geeky didn't just invent itself. Nobody woke up one morning and declared that a stereotype. It became a stereotype because it was the most general trait carried by male gamers during the early days of gaming (1980s/early 1990s).

I did not mean to offend anyone with this thread or even its title. I am simply asking a question, if it hits a nerve, then the individual has the option to just ignore the thread and let it die down.

[drunken pyromaniac]

MajesticJazz wrote...


I am fully aware of that as there are variances to everything. I am just saying that based on what I've seen in real life (talking to many male gamers who played ME).....it was most of the time the over the top nerd or geek guy who ****d over Tali/Liara whereas the cool/nightlife type guy would find Miranda, Ashley or even Jack more attractive.

Don't get me wrong, I imagine there is some correlation. Also, looking at my post, it was kind of insulting. My apologies, I didn't mean that.

Now, back to on-topic. I myself am what would be called a nerd. Glasses and the whole bit. Yet I liked Ashley the best in ME1 and almost all my SingleSheps in ME2 went for Jack.

[Siansonea]

Brodyaha wrote...

I choose my LIs based on the story I create around my Shepards, male or female.
One MShep Engineer likes Tali in ME1, but didn't pursue her because she was younger; he does in ME2. He didn't fraternize b/c it's against regs, and he thought Liara was too forward.
My FemShep is an Infiltrator, and can relate to liking tech stuff with Kaidan. She ends up falling hard for him.
And so on, and so forth. I prefer not to Mary Sue myself into a video game.

I do this too, which is why I have six 'canon' Shepards, and I try to mix it up with regards to the story choices as much as possible, including romance. Unfortunately ME1 only gave me three options, so all three of my males and one of my females romanced Liara, and the other two females romanced Kaidan. I just couldn't go there with Ashley, even with my most Renegade male. I'm just not a Tennyson fan, I guess. ME2 was all over the map, with one loyal to Liara, one loyal to Kaidan, and the others romancing Jack, Miranda, Jacob and Garrus. I like seeing all the different permutations, though of course I still have favorites (Kaidan Romance in ME1, Jack Romance in ME2).

[MajesticJazz]

Brodyaha wrote...

I choose my LIs based on the story I create around my Shepards, male or female.
One MShep Engineer likes Tali in ME1, but didn't pursue her because she was younger; he does in ME2. He didn't fraternize b/c it's against regs, and he thought Liara was too forward.
My FemShep is an Infiltrator, and can relate to liking tech stuff with Kaidan. She ends up falling hard for him.
And so on, and so forth. I prefer not to Mary Sue myself into a video game.

Same here, when it comes to my two male Shepards (I also have two female Shepards), my male Shepards romanced their LIs for perspective reasons. My pure paragon Shepard romanced Liara because Liara seems to be the more....paragon type. My militarist Shepard romanced Ashley because she is the more....militarist with her family background and respect for military protocol.

[kglaser]

FWIW, I'm certainly not insulted by this thread.

I think it's an interesting question.