272 réponses à ce sujet

[J4N3_M3]

i don't like that none of the squaddies actually wears any sort of armor when in battle! when I went to the collector ship for to first time, I had Jack with me.....poor girl must be freezing to death, wearing nothing but....well whatever it is she is wearing there!

[Legbiter]

Tali is the virginal damsel in distress. That's an archetype that's very appealing to a subset of men, so no great mystery there. I don't think she nessiceraly appeals mainly to male nerds or the basement-dwelling demographic.

Miranda is the icequeen babe that you get to slowly melt and Jack, well with Jack you can either bend her over for a quick grudgef*** down in engineering and leave it at that, or you can try to coax her into a more permanent relationship.

Modifié par Legbiter, 01 septembre 2010 - 02:28 .

[J4N3_M3]

i don't see Tali as damsel in distress.....

What I like about the Tali romance is that there seems to be some sort of familiarity between her and Shepard (just like there is between Garrus and FemShep) because they've known each other for so long and have a completely different level of trust than the other LIs (Jack or Miranda) do. I like that. And you see that in their interactions. How Tali takes Sheps hands and how they kinda play with each others hands during the 2nd build up dialogue...it's just sweet!

[upsettingshorts]

The way Tali describes her feelings I just think, "Schoolgirl crush." They're very circumstantial - she talks about how she came to know you, sort of swept up in the romanticism of it all.

NTTAWWT

(Admit it, you can hear her talking to her girlfriends in an excited, hushed voice, "And then he came and saved me from Fists Thugs, and while we were on this big adventure he stopped to get me this Geth trinket!  I hope he comes to talk to me in th engine room again! /swoon")

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 01 septembre 2010 - 02:47 .

[s0meguy6665]

Tazzmission wrote...
miranda is sexy because of her booty

and everything else, up to her neck

[Shadow_broker]

Waait who says all people who like tali are nerds?
That looks cool to me

[V-rex]

It's a valid theory I suppose but I'm not sure if it's accurate. I mean despite what even the creepiest determined Talimancer on the web would have you believe, no matter how well characterized a video game character is it will never compare to actual human interaction. So in some respects when I was playing Mass Effect I wasn't looking for the kind of partner that would suit me personally but rather the partner that I thought matched the personality set up I gave Shepard.



See, while many others would perceive themselves as Commander Shepard I purposely avoided customizing him precisely because I didn't want to find myself empathizing with him too much. So that rather than me being the character, I was the director of a film that lived within the game of which Shepard was the leading role. As a result I wasn't looking around for the girl of my dreams, I was on the hunt for the one that was best characterized that would fit the criteria for a leading lady.

For me at least, that was Ashley Williams.



I mean yes I grew to like Ashley a lot I mean hell, you go through the same game and the same romance subplot with the same NPC about twenty times you are going to grow some form of affection to them, but in real life I'm not sure that Ashley would be my 'ideal woman'. NO THIS IS NOT BECAUSE I THINK SHE IS A RACIST OF WHICH I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT, but rather because she is quite coarse and quite aggressive and is carrying a lot of emotional baggage. However she is still funny and attractive and has real human personality so I still thought that this strong woman belonged alongside Shepard and was far more deserving than anyone else I could think of.

As it stood Ashley was strongly characterized and even though there were more than a few flaws with her personality I actually liked that aspect of her entirely because of the flaws. Because unlike Tali and Liara the game wasn't selling her as the 'perfect girlfriend figure' nor was she the sleek sex symbol that Miranda was where the game made sure you knew how hot she was every second.

Ashley was just a human character that the developers neither encouraged you to like nor forced you to hate. It was entirely up to you as to how you perceived her.

As far as I'm concerned, that's actual real strong characterization there and I firmly believe it was worth it to stick it through and watch Ashley go through a sort of character arc and change her worldview.



Sure she got dropped out of the picture in Mass Effect 2 but I found it made the character of Shepard far more likable and sympathetic to have him staring lovingly at the picture of his star crossed lover and being emotionally vulnerable in his final moment of peace before the battle began.... then it did to just see him be ultra cool playboy like all the fanbase seem to perceive him as.



In any case I saw Shepard as a character and not myself and as a result grew to like Ashley as a perfect match for him and I hope to see his romance conclude full circle.

Incidentally though I am a nerd and a geek and a socially mal-adjusted weirdo... but still nothing annoys me quite like a damsel in distress figure swooning intoxicated by the manliness of the player made author surrogate.

Not wishing to cause any offense to any Liara or Tali fans out there but to me at least I prefer them tough. Especially for stories like Mass Effect.

[J4N3_M3]

I want Zaeed to be a LI! And Kasumi!

[Estelindis]

Different people find different qualities attractive.  Different people will like different LIs. 

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Thompson family wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...
... the Ashley-as-racist- crap is one of my biggest pet peeves.

I'm willing to use the word xenophobic, then, even though I don't see much of an improvement. No offense intended.

Would American military personnel be comfortable letting Chinese personnel onto one of their advanced ballistic missile submarines?  Just to pick two countries.

I can tell you a British friend of mine visiting China was received in quite a hostile fashion when she tried to go through a town where nuclear missiles are made.  (She had no idea, and finally managed to convince the interrogating agents that Britain wouldn't send a maths lecturer who could speak almost no Chinese to spy on China.)  That doesn't mean the Chinese were anti-British.  They were just trying to protect their interests from people they didn't necessarily see as allies.  I think the same applies to Ashley.  For her, the memories of conflict are just too fresh to assume that aliens are on humanity's side.

Modifié par Estelindis, 01 septembre 2010 - 03:00 .

[Legbiter]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

(Admit it, you can hear her talking to her girlfriends in an excited, hushed voice, "And then he came and saved me from Fists Thugs, and while we were on this big adventure he stopped to get me this Geth trinket!  I hope he comes to talk to me in th engine room again! /swoon")

Exactly.

It'll be fun for my renegade Shep to dump her in ME 3.

[J4N3_M3]

Eh, like I said, I have a Shepard for everyone. My first FemShep was and still is a Kaidan lady and stayed faithful to him! They matched perfectly.

All others were created and then I went and decided while playing what LI would fit the most.

For my current dudeShep, he was fully paragon. Not one single Renegade decision in Me1. He romanced Liara. Then she broke his heart by refusing to join him. His little naive world kinda crashed a little. And he actually made a few renegade choices in ME2. But then he got Tali back and had to help her and hugged her on her Loyalty Mission and that confused him and when she said, she liked him, he realized he liked her too, more than he should. And bam! Tali romance ^.^

Seriously, I know I'm not the only one who plays Mass Effect as obsessive and in canon!

[Soviet Vodka]

KreeCapt wrote...

I loved Tali for her personality. That and her accent.

This.

[Legbiter]

My canon Shep is a paragon who hooked up with Ashley in ME 1. Then he did Jack down in engineering, followed by Miranda right before going on the suicide mission. Then he dumped her and is now currently taking dancing lessons from Kelly.

[Symji]

Estelindis wrote...

Different people find different qualities attractive.  Different people will like different LIs. 

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Thompson family wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...
... the Ashley-as-racist- crap is one of my biggest pet peeves.

I'm willing to use the word xenophobic, then, even though I don't see much of an improvement. No offense intended.

Would American military personnel be comfortable letting Chinese personnel onto one of their advanced ballistic missile submarines?  Just to pick two countries.

I can tell you a British friend of mine visiting China was received in quite a hostile fashion when she tried to go through a town where nuclear missiles are made.  (She had no idea, and finally managed to convince the interrogating agents that Britain wouldn't send a maths lecturer who could speak almost no Chinese to spy on China.)  That doesn't mean the Chinese were anti-British.  They were just trying to protect their interests from people they didn't necessarily see as allies.  I think the same applies to Ashley.  For her, the memories of conflict are just too fresh to assume that aliens are on humanity's side.

I always laughed at Ash when she talked about this, at least as far as Garrus was concerned. The game explicitly states that the Normandy was co-designed by the Turians, which means that there were Turians present when it was being built. It also means that the Turians already have every single technical specification of the Normandy already available to them. The only thing they wouldn't know would be Alliance policies and procedures, or possibly communication protocols. Personally, I took that part of the conversation to be because she didn't know the history of the Normandy itself, combined with the fact that she had no prior experience working with aliens.

[upsettingshorts]

Symji wrote...
I always laughed at Ash when she talked about this, at least as far as Garrus was concerned. The game explicitly states that the Normandy was co-designed by the Turians, which means that there were Turians present when it was being built. It also means that the Turians already have every single technical specification of the Normandy already available to them. The only thing they wouldn't know would be Alliance policies and procedures, or possibly communication protocols. Personally, I took that part of the conversation to be because she didn't know the history of the Normandy itself, combined with the fact that she had no prior experience working with aliens.

Completely reasonable and a far cry from ASHLEY IS A BIGOT ALIEN HATER that pops up everywhere.

[J4N3_M3]

I don't see Ashley as alien hater per se. She says it herself in ME2, that she's not a big fan of aliens but Cerberus even goes too far for her taste. And I agree with her. I can understand that she is sceptical about aliens. My colony kid Kara is not a big fan of aliens either, though in ME1 I played her paragon for the events on Mindoir were her fuel to right all wrongs in the galaxy xD the only grudge she holds is against batarians and in ME2, where she turns completely renegade, this grudge turns into pure hate from the moment, Forvan poisons her. The only people she trusts in Me2 are Garrus and Tali (and Joker and Chakwas) because she had learned to trust them in ME1. All other people can go eff off. No matter if human or alien. She is completely anti-social xD

Personally, I adore Ashley. I have an uncompleted Me1 PT dudeshep pt who romances her.

[Siansonea]

J4N3_M3 wrote...

I want Zaeed to be a LI! And Kasumi!

I actually thought Vido Santiago was hot. Now that's a bad boy my Renegade FemShep would go after (he survived in her playthrough, Zaeed did not).

[Siansonea]

I'm actually in the "I don't hate Ashley" group, but I really don't hate any of the characters (yes, even Tali). Unfortunately, as much as I might like Ashley, I like Kaidan better, and it always makes more sense to save the human biotic officer rather than the ordinary human NCO from a strategic standpoint. Human biotics don't grow on trees, soldiers kinda do. So Ashley is dead in all six of my 'canon' playthroughs. I'm tempted to redo my Infiltrator playthrough in ME1 and have him romance Ashley/kill Kaidan, but it's hard for me to play ME1 after playing ME2.



The thing is, I like all the LIs for different Shepards, it really adds variety and replay value for me that my Shepards can have such distinct experiences. I see them as couples (well, except for my über-neutral Engineer and my psycopath Soldier), and it's cool that they each have a person that fits their personality.



I do not play Shepard as "me". I think there are a fair number of players like that. That said, I do like some LI storylines better than others, Ashley's was the least interesting in ME1 for me, and I never bothered with Thane's in ME2, though I watched it on YouTube.

[MajesticJazz]

bobobo878 wrote...
MajesticJazz knows all! He can see into your SOUL!

Jazz IS for your soul!

 
 

HTTP 404 wrote...

Elyvern wrote...
You're forgetting one big thing as well, OP.
The relative ages of the LIs and the age group of gamers they are supposed to appeal to.
One of the reasons why I can never imagine Tali or Liara as my LIs is their age. Both of them are more likely to inspire "younger sibling" feelings in me than the desire to bonk them. Of course, you can also argue that people past a certain age, say let's set an arbritary age of 30, actually become socially competent and mature enough to find loving partners despite how they could be geeks previously. But even if you remain a geek for life, age still plays a part in your choices, I feel.

youre absolutely right, tali and liara felt more like little sister to me. Im 26 years old.  I need a woman not a girl! 

Exactly! To me, especially Tali, came across as a little sister rather than a mature women who I could take seriously. If not a little sister, Tali comes across as that High School freshmen who has a crush on the Senior star Quarterback of the State Championship football team. Same with Liara, she is like that Math/Science/Theater club geek girl who has a crush on the popular guy in school for the simple idea that he is....popular. Either way, both Tali and Liara (ME1) become very submissive when in the presence of Shepard.

DaringMoosejaw wrote...
More a fan of Liara and Tali because they're feminine, I'd say in my point of view. Ashley and Jack are very brash and have a swagger, though Jack improves a tiny bit later on. Miranda's also pretty aggressive, but she handles it in a subtler way than the other two.

Liara and Tali are more feminine? How so? So you're saying that because they are naive and submissive equals feminine? So Ashley and Miranda aren't because they have a bit of "hard edge" to them? I love how us men like to define feminism with submission as if a strong minded, independant, mentally tough female cannot be feminine.
 

Shavon wrote...

They are probably the most popular, because all kinds of people love geeky, feminine girls, not just the kind of guys described in the OP.

Again, what makes Tali and Liara so feminine, atleast more feminine than Miranda, Jack, and Ashley?

[brfritos]

J4N3_M3 wrote...

brfritos wrote...
That's why they bother people so much.

nah! jacob was just ugh because he was soooo....i can't even find the word to describe it. Jack was hot! I like everything about her. But Jacob? nah! 
but to each their own...

Jack is hot? Where?
And to who?

That's why I said they were exaggerated, a man with the "macho type" don't act like that, but the similarities will be the same (naked woman, drank a lot and go to bed).
Like Shepard is doing a favor to him. LOL

Also that's why I want a renegade sex between Zaeed and femShep, but you know, if a woman chooses to make sex because she wants, she's a ****.
That crap that society indocrinate females since they born.

And Jacob is ugh because?
He's the only one who really shows some independence, rather than do what the others want.
Just  like Jack, BTW, I think that's what Bioware intended to show, but were mistakenly interpreted (like Ash, for example).
You can see that he's not a PoS in his loyalty mission, he doesn't agree with anything was happen.

And like someone said earlier, Miranda IS a whinner. Shania Twain was abused in her teeenage years, but you don't see her talking about and tell people to have pity on her.

[J4N3_M3]

Siansonea II wrote...

I'm actually in the "I don't hate Ashley" group, but I really don't hate any of the characters (yes, even Tali). Unfortunately, as much as I might like Ashley, I like Kaidan better, and it always makes more sense to save the human biotic officer rather than the ordinary human NCO from a strategic standpoint. Human biotics don't grow on trees, soldiers kinda do. So Ashley is dead in all six of my 'canon' playthroughs. I'm tempted to redo my Infiltrator playthrough in ME1 and have him romance Ashley/kill Kaidan, but it's hard for me to play ME1 after playing ME2.

The thing is, I like all the LIs for different Shepards, it really adds variety and replay value for me that my Shepards can have such distinct experiences. I see them as couples (well, except for my über-neutral Engineer and my psycopath Soldier), and it's cool that they each have a person that fits their personality.

I do not play Shepard as "me". I think there are a fair number of players like that. That said, I do like some LI storylines better than others, Ashley's was the least interesting in ME1 for me, and I never bothered with Thane's in ME2, though I watched it on YouTube.

I agree with you on almost everything you said. For me it's hard as well to go back play ME1 after having played ME2 so many times. But I have played it three times by now and a few unfinished Sheps, that wait to be played until the end. Still, ME2's combat system has spoilt me for ME1 xD 

And like I said earlier, I have different Sheps for most LIs, too. My favorites are Garrus and Kaidan, Tali is catching up right now as I play her romance.

Do they appeal to me as the player? In fact, they all do. They all have attributes that I do like. Miranda looks sexy. But I also love her voice, her accent and the way she is written. Jack is awesome. I like her snotty behaviour and how she makes Shepard work really hard to break down these walls. It's just brilliant. Tali is just cute and I adore her, yet I don't see her as submissive at all. She's grown quite a lot compared to the first game. She speaks her mind more than once, e.g. when talking to the customs officer or the c-sec guy with the stolen credit chit. Or when talking to Avina. I like that! Also, I think she has this subtle, sarcastic humour....I like that. When Shepard returns her feelings, how she is caught off guard. It just makes my heart melt. Thane is just the spiritual guy. I adore him. He has this calm side, my Lana just needs and often seeks after Kaidan has broken her heart. She hadn't expected to meet someone she could have feelings for and then Thane kinda sneaks his way into her heart through the backdoor. I like that. Garrus is for my FemSheps that have always had this subtle crush on him but never really realized that. They enjoyed his friendship and his company. And they never expected him to actually jump on the idea of "letting off some steam together" let alone the fact, that it becomes quite more emotional for both of them. Kaidan is my MainShep's man. He's the down to earth guy who doesn't hold back with his opinion and doesn't follow her blindly like a puppy. And Horizon was pretty hard on her. She needed time to heal and focus on the mission instead of jumping at someone else. Liara was Brian's LI. He grew up as a Spacer kid and was the war hero. He never had any real baggage. Of course someone like Liara was perfect for him. But then he met her on Ilium and she had changed so much. He did everything to help her but instead she just refused to join him and wanted to continue her own hunt. That hurt him pretty bad and although he tried to keep a clear head, when Tali's loyalty mission came and he hugged her to comfort her over her father's death, he was a bit confused because it felt different from a just friendly hug. He seeked her company more often after that and then when she admitted his feelings, he was baffled, yet not put off. And he'd do everything for her.

God, I'm a sucker for all this crap.

[Siansonea]

We're all suckers for this crap. It's pretty clear by the amount of content on these forums that discuss the LIs that they are a huge part of the game's appeal. The story is very immersive, and the fact that there are so many permutations was a huge selling point for me personally.

[J4N3_M3]

brfritos wrote...

J4N3_M3 wrote...

brfritos wrote...
That's why they bother people so much.

nah! jacob was just ugh because he was soooo....i can't even find the word to describe it. Jack was hot! I like everything about her. But Jacob? nah! 
but to each their own...

Jack is hot? Where?
And to who?

That's why I said they were exaggerated, a man with the "macho type" don't act like that, but the similarities will be the same (naked woman, drank a lot and go to bed).
Like Shepard is doing a favor to him. LOL

Also that's why I want a renegade sex between Zaeed and femShep, but you know, if a woman chooses to make sex because she wants, she's a ****.
That crap that society indocrinate females since they born.

And Jacob is ugh because?
He's the only one who really shows some independence, rather than do what the others want.
Just  like Jack, BTW, I think that's what Bioware intended to show, but were mistakenly interpreted (like Ash, for example).
You can see that he's not a PoS in his loyalty mission, he doesn't agree with anything was happen.

And like someone said earlier, Miranda IS a whinner. Shania Twain was abused in her teeenage years, but you don't see her talking about and tell people to have pity on her.

Zaeed is awesome! I'd create a shep for him any time. Also one for Joker, if that would ever happen xD 

I romanced Jacob for science (thanks, Clan V) but Bioware had given him all the lines I, personally, would never want to hear from a guy. They should have made a renegade sex scene (like they did with Jack) just for him. I'd have done that. xD He reminds me of the kind of guys, I'd pick up in a bar if I really needed to get laid.

And I'm not stating facts, just my personal opinion.  
And yes, Jack was hot to me. I am a sucker for tattoos and shaven heads. sowwy....

[Silverite]

I agree with OP. Well, at least all my male friends who are total geeks/nerds do prefer Tali and Liara.
They are more submissive than Ashley/Jack/Miranda/Samara and they are completely unexperienced in love and sex affairs - what's not to like for any socially awkward teen?

[Wishpig]

Your looking into this way to much.

Liara and Tali are the most popular for two reasons.

1. They were in the first game. A long bioware tradition is, in the sequel, the community gets pissed when inevitably a new cast of NPC's replace the old. Hell it's not just a bioware tradition, movies, TV, games, the original cast tends to be the most beloved, new characters always have to overcome a huge hurdle to get accepted.

2. Ashley was pretty damn ugly and was also a ****. Her face just looked WRONG. It wasn't attractive, it wasn't natural looking, it was like a face out of Eldar Scrolls Oblivion. And she was a good person, but also very closed minded, raciest, and just tough to get along with as opposed to Tali and Liara who were nice people.


Bamn done.