386 réponses à ce sujet

[Nerevar-as]

ID1 & 2? What are those?



Human man - fem elf is a bit overdone in fantasy, but the human going for the exotic but close enough to human looking girl is everywhere. In ME we get Liara and Tali (elf like eyes, so yeah). But in DA elves are not that different. No long lifespan, no especial power, the underdog, weaker genes, ... Only the elves in The Witcher (maybe) have it worse.



Gaider had Katriel - Maric and Fiona -Maric, now I think about it. Maybe he thought elf - Warden was a bit too much.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Russalka wrote...
I did say fantasy roleplaying games done by Bioware, so ignore Jade Empire, Mass Effect, Knights of the Old Republic and others, they do not count in this matter. Neverwinter Nights had Aribeth in the official campaign, Nathyrra and Aribeth in Hordes of the Underdark. So it still goes with six elven romances against two human ones.

Everything else of other genres do not count because the bulk of the writers have been on the fantasy RPG side and David Gaider mentioned elven romances being over-done in fantasy.

a) Jade Empire is fantasy
What NWN has can hardly be called romances.
c) doesn't matter. It's still 10 YEARS from the last elven romance they made.

ID1 and 2 are Icewind Dale 1 and 2. No romances, just pure create-your-own-party and save-the-town fun.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 01 octobre 2010 - 11:43 .

[Nerevar-as]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

ID1 and 2 are Icewind Dale 1 and 2. No romances, just pure create-your-own-party and save-the-town fun.

Thanks. Can´t believe I didn´t realize of it. Will never forget how many times I killed half my party with Burning hands.

[Skellimancer]

Why are Bioware fans so obsessed with romances...

[Lotion Soronarr]

Some are. I'd play the game without them (heck, I'm playing ID2). But, since they will be in...we all want what we want, no?

[Russalka]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
a) Jade Empire is fantasy
What NWN has can hardly be called romances.
c) doesn't matter. It's still 10 YEARS from the last elven romance they made.

ID1 and 2 are Icewind Dale 1 and 2. No romances, just pure create-your-own-party and save-the-town fun.

But Jade Empire was not an RPG, and not fantasy in the classical sense. And clearly you haven't played Hordes of the Underdark, which had very good romance options. The original campagin with Aribeth had brief but fulfilling snippets of romance, which in my opinion still counts.

If you wish to argue with mildly unrelated examples, then yes, Katriel and Fiona were elven romances too, in the books, which sets the last written elven romance onto a quite recent time.
The Icewind Dale series were not done by Bioware.

One can argue as much as one wants, but the lead writer has had his say and there are reasons to back it up as well.

[Lotion Soronarr]

He said he didn't plan any elven romances for DA:O



He said nothing for DA2.

[Russalka]

He did say, like I have mentioned in other threads, that they are going for something entirely new with romances this time. I do not know if that counts elves in.

[DPB]

Russalka wrote...

Everything else of other genres do not count because the bulk of the writers have been on the fantasy RPG side and David Gaider mentioned elven romances being over-done in fantasy.

Sorry, but why do people keep saying this? As I pointed out several pages ago, he said no such thing, merely that at the time of writing he wasn't interested in repeating the Elven romances from BG2 in DAO. DG never said that they were over-done, boring or cliched.

Most of this thread is ridiculous - lots of people getting worked up over "quotes" that never existed in the first place.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

He said he didn't plan any elven romances for DA:O

He said nothing for DA2.

Exactly.

Modifié par dbankier, 01 octobre 2010 - 12:18 .

[Russalka]

dbankier wrote...

Sorry, but why do people keep saying this? As I pointed out several pages ago, he said no such thing, merely that at the time of writing he wasn't interested in repeating the Elven romances from BG2 in DAO. DG never said that they were over-done, boring or cliched.

Most of this thread is ridiculous - lots of people getting worked up over "quotes" that never existed in the first place.

Well then, I worded it wrong. What I do mean is that there have been enough elven romances. I am not implying that I am against it, however. The 7-10 year gap does not count if mister Gaider still had the BG2 romances in mind when writing DA:O. And there is still the fact that there are six elven romances against two human ones, eight if one counts the books.

Besides, I remember other quotations where the "overdone" part was the case, though. But it could be just my bad memory.

Modifié par Russalka, 01 octobre 2010 - 12:31 .

[Ortaya Alevli]

There's no such thing as "enough elven romance". And I can't even begin to tell how ridiculous it is to use that as an excuse not to include an elven romance in a fantasy game. It makes the elves look like they're there as a token alien race, filling some space. Besides, creating elven companions your character can have feelings for is a much better way to introduce them as genuine "persons" than playing the "oppressed miserable folk" card.

[Russalka]

The more and more I think about it, the more evident it becomes to me that this time we would have a female elven love interest, or a dwarven one, or both. The latter seems a bit unlikely next to hopes of having Varric as the male LI.



But them wanting to make it different this time can speak both ways, either for or against elven romances.

[SXOSXO]

I think someone here shares the same elf fetish that Maric had.

Modifié par SXOSXO, 01 octobre 2010 - 01:59 .

[Dan-mac RI]

Skellimancer wrote...

Why are Bioware fans so obsessed with romances...

Idk, why does your avatar remind me of Jessica Rabbit?

[Shepard Lives]

Dan-mac RI wrote...

Skellimancer wrote...

Why are Bioware fans so obsessed with romances...

Idk, why does your avatar remind me of Jessica Rabbit?

Jessica Rabbit for romance option in DA2.
Or should we call her Jessica Nug?

[AmstradHero]

Russalka wrote...
But Jade Empire was not an RPG, and not fantasy in the classical sense.

Not an RPG? What, it didn't meet the stringent requirements of "must be classical high european medieval fantasy in the D&D style" and all the associated trappings in order to be an RPG?

Just because something isn't "classical" fantasy doesn't mean it's not fantasy.  It is an asian fantasy setting, and it's sure as heck an RPG. Just because it has action-style fighting does not proclude it from (correctly) being called an RPG.

As for elven romances... why do we need elves as romance options more than any other race? Surely the characterisation of the NPC is more important than "they're an elf" or "they have blonde hair" or "their boobs jiggle inside their armor". Yes, I'm looking at you, poorly written Aribeth romances of NWN and HotU.

Modifié par AmstradHero, 01 octobre 2010 - 02:20 .

[DPB]

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

There's no such thing as "enough elven romance". And I can't even begin to tell how ridiculous it is to use that as an excuse not to include an elven romance in a fantasy game.

And again. As I said, that didn't happen. I don't particular care one way or the other if the romances are elven or not, but it's a little unfair to keep accusing Bioware of saying this with no evidence at all.

Modifié par dbankier, 01 octobre 2010 - 02:38 .

[Zenjamin]

I will respond in legnth later to some of these posts. But it seems people are getting off topic.

I will just say two things realy quick.
1) More options is always good. Dont want an elven romance? Good, thats why they should put in a human or dwarf romance. Want an elf romance? Good, that option should be there too.
Nobody should attack the idea of an option, unless that option will take away choices for you. And this will not be the case. There is no way there wont be a human romance option (imo). So there is no reason to fear an elven female romance option. Because it is just that. AN OPTION!

2) 99% of people who play DA2 will not have played a bioware game before KOTOR. What happened before then does not matter. And Bioware is reaching out to other gamers. Those who play DA2 will play it because it looks badasss and got good reviews. They will not give two ****s what fantasy fanatics think is or isnt overdone. It will be a new experience for them.


Again. Dont want an elf option?
Simple.
Dont take it.

But dont pretend that there arent people who want one.
What is old hat to you is new and refreshing to me.

Modifié par Zenjamin, 01 octobre 2010 - 02:56 .

[Ortaya Alevli]

dbankier wrote...

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

There's no such thing as "enough elven romance". And I can't even begin to tell how ridiculous it is to use that as an excuse not to include an elven romance in a fantasy game.

And again. As I said, that didn't happen. I don't particular care one way or the other if the romances are elven or not, but it's a little unfair to keep accusing Bioware of saying this with no evidence at all.

I get the feeling you read too much into my post. Just a feeling.

[DPB]

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

dbankier wrote...

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

There's no such thing as "enough elven romance". And I can't even begin to tell how ridiculous it is to use that as an excuse not to include an elven romance in a fantasy game.

And again. As I said, that didn't happen. I don't particular care one way or the other if the romances are elven or not, but it's a little unfair to keep accusing Bioware of saying this with no evidence at all.

I get the feeling you read too much into my post. Just a feeling.

It just seems that most of this discussion has stemmed from something that was never said in the first place. I'm sorry if that wasn't what you meant, but I've seen a lot "David Gaider said elven romances have been done to death," without any actual quotes to back that up.

[Russalka]

AmstradHero wrote...

Not an RPG? What, it didn't meet the stringent requirements of "must be classical high european medieval fantasy in the D&D style" and all the associated trappings in order to be an RPG?

Just because something isn't "classical" fantasy doesn't mean it's not fantasy.  It is an asian fantasy setting, and it's sure as heck an RPG. Just because it has action-style fighting does not proclude it from (correctly) being called an RPG.

I misplaced a comma. What I meant was that Jade Empire and the Baldur's Gate/Neverwinter Nights/Dragon Age series cannot really be compared in this issue, as they are not of the same particular (sub)genre.

Overall, I meant that one cannot really compare the settings which do not have elves to settings that do have elves. Everything I said can be subjective, but in this subject it can be said so.
That is just my take on it.

EDIT: Semantics.

Modifié par Russalka, 01 octobre 2010 - 04:55 .

[Wakara Pezi]

 Yes, to an elf LI and no to a dwarf one.

Modifié par Wakara Pezi, 01 octobre 2010 - 05:56 .

[Ortaya Alevli]

dbankier wrote...

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

dbankier wrote...

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

There's no such thing as "enough elven romance". And I can't even begin to tell how ridiculous it is to use that as an excuse not to include an elven romance in a fantasy game.

And again. As I said, that didn't happen. I don't particular care one way or the other if the romances are elven or not, but it's a little unfair to keep accusing Bioware of saying this with no evidence at all.

I get the feeling you read too much into my post. Just a feeling.

It just seems that most of this discussion has stemmed from something that was never said in the first place. I'm sorry if that wasn't what you meant, but I've seen a lot "David Gaider said elven romances have been done to death," without any actual quotes to back that up.

No harm done.

To clarify, what Gaider said where had nothing to do with my post. I was referring to other people who kept playing the same "too many elven romances, done to death, we don't need any moar, imma throw up nao" tune.

[Zaros]

Wakara Pezi wrote...

 Yes, to an elf LI and no to a dwarf one.

Why no to a dwarf one?

I don't see why we can't have both.

[Wakara Pezi]

If we could have both that would be cool, then.