145 réponses à ce sujet

[The Halfman]

Although I dont have the quotes to back it up I think we were told there is no "hard" level cap whilst this would appear to be a "soft" cap and therefore this isent a lie. Just my understanding

[marshalleck]

BonafideSeraphim wrote...

Easily extended on the PC yes...not on the consoles. I don't care much about the level cap because, as mentioned, I'll probably never reach it...but it's still extremely bad form to lie about it.

Consoles are irrelevent. The only content you'll be leveling in beyond the main campaign is DLC from Bioware, so if they feel leveling past 25 needs to happen, then they will make it happen. None of what's being discussed in this thread will affect console players one bit since you'll never get 3rd party campaigns.

[BonafideSeraphim]

This is a hard cap. Hard cap doesn't necessarily mean hardcoded. It implies that there is a set level that you can't go beyond in the game. This is the case(unless you crack open the game and mod it).



Why not just say "Yeah, the cap is at 25. You'll most likely never reach it though."



I wouldn't have had a problem with that. Instead, we got a lie. That annoys me as a consumer.

[BonafideSeraphim]

marshalleck wrote...

BonafideSeraphim wrote...

Easily extended on the PC yes...not on the consoles. I don't care much about the level cap because, as mentioned, I'll probably never reach it...but it's still extremely bad form to lie about it.

Consoles are irrelevent. The only content you'll be leveling in beyond the main campaign is DLC from Bioware, so if they feel leveling past 25 needs to happen, then they will make it happen. None of what's being discussed in this thread will affect console players one bit since you'll never get 3rd party campaigns.

No, it's not irrelevant. It refutes the idea that it's okay because it can just be modded. Of course, to me, the very fact that we were lied to refutes the idea that it's ok.

Again, why not just be honest with us?

[soteria]

BonafideSeraphim wrote...

This is a hard cap. Hard cap doesn't necessarily mean hardcoded. It implies that there is a set level that you can't go beyond in the game. This is the case(unless you crack open the game and mod it).

Why not just say "Yeah, the cap is at 25. You'll most likely never reach it though."

I wouldn't have had a problem with that. Instead, we got a lie. That annoys me as a consumer.

That's fair enough.  They did say there wasn't a level cap... you could argue that the exact truth of that statement is irrevelant if we can't reach 25 without cheating, but then, why lie?  Or, if you prefer, why imply an untruth?

[Auraad]

Are you surpised?

Besides ... it's not called "lying" ... it's called marketing ...

[Vasharai]

QQ more.

[BonafideSeraphim]

Auraad wrote...

Are you surpised?
Besides ... it's not called "lying" ... it's called marketing ...

How is this marketing? They didn't use half-truths to imply that you could ride griffons or something like that. They just outright said "No hard level cap," and yet there is. How would "Yes, there's a hard level cap...like the vast majority of games. You'll probably never reach it," be marketing?

[Sinistral777]

Are you really complaining about something that you could not discover without PC customers downloading the toolset to look it up?

Reallllly?

Modifié par Sinistral777, 11 novembre 2009 - 09:00 .

[BonafideSeraphim]

You can discover it without doing that...



And again, it's a lie. I, as a consumer, don't enjoy being outright lied to. I fail to see why anyone would. It also makes me question some of the more questionable answers we were given(along with some other rather peculiar missteps with the game).



I'm hoping a developer will see this and pop in with an actual reason for it.

[Mordaedil]

BonafideSeraphim wrote...

This is a hard cap. Hard cap doesn't necessarily mean hardcoded. It implies that there is a set level that you can't go beyond in the game. This is the case(unless you crack open the game and mod it).

Why not just say "Yeah, the cap is at 25. You'll most likely never reach it though."

I wouldn't have had a problem with that. Instead, we got a lie. That annoys me as a consumer.

It's a soft cap because it is extendable by editing a 2da, which was never possible before, in games like NWN1 or NWN2. In those games you had to truly "crack" the game to extend the level cap beyond any preset value.

Consoles are irrelevant because they cannot reach the level cap by "legal" means. Heck, even PC users can't reach the cap by legal means. Debug mode must be active for it to be reached.

By the time we get content that unlocks more experience levels, the cap will be raised to accomodate this.

The developers also prior to release stated that the soft-cap was at level 25, though different peoples assumed this meant different things.

Then again, they were being pretty vague about it before release, so I am mildly stunted, though I do not really feel "lied to".

[Phbbt107]

You really are looking for something to complain about. If you're on the console, there's simply no way for you to reach the level cap, making it irrelevant. There are onl yso many quests and monsters don't respawn. Sooner or later, you run out of things to kill and quests to turn in and you won't be at the level cap yet. If you want to complain, at least complain about osmething legitimate, like day 1 DLC, overpriced DLC, unbalanced characters, etc.

[BonafideSeraphim]

Yes, being annoyed because you were lied to about a product you bought is so stupid...



And believe, if I wanted something to complain about, there are more than a few things that I could choose. It's not as if I'd have to nitpick to find something. I just don't enjoy being lied to.



It's a minor thing but it's still poor form on Bioware's part. And yes, it's possible to reach the level cap on the 360. There are a few quirks you can exploit to get there. Pretty much the console version of the debug tool/toolset.



And it IS a hard cap...just because it can be edited doesn't mean it's not a hard cap, not hardcoded, but still a hard level cap. Soft level cap implies that you'll end up around a certain level because of lack of good leveling opportunities. Hard cap implies there's a set number you can't go past. There happen to be both in the game.



I believe there IS a way to grind in-game as well. That's for another discussion though as I'm still trying to figure out if it would work.

[Aldandil]

It's not like I'm upset or anything, but I don't get why they would say that a level cap doesn't exist when it actually does. I mean, what's the point?

[Flash Aron]

... WHAT STUPID DESIRE to want unlimted Levels ! ...

who cares, if you do everything what is possible in the game and couldn't reach LEV25 it is good balanced and a good game design !

AND WHO CARES FOR DAMN CHEATERS !!!

.

Do you remember that stupid Fallout 3 ? There it was a joke, as after 20% done in the world you already had maxed out near everything and reached Lev20, even the add on months later for lev30 was a joke, as already everyone has wasted thousands of exp. points ... THERE IT WAS TERRIBLE and game was boring after 20% ...



Here I don't see any problem, when you have solved 100% and done EVERYTHING in the game and you just hit Level 25 IT WAS PERFECT GAMEDESIGN and THANK YOU to the developers ! ANd it seems it is that way ...

I think I will be able to tell you in maybe a week (played now 50hours, solved 30%, Level 12)

[BonafideSeraphim]

Flash Aron wrote...

... WHAT STUPID DESIRE to want unlimted Levels ! ...
who cares, if you do everything what is possible in the game and couldn't reach LEV25 it is good balanced and a good game design !
AND WHO CARES FOR DAMN CHEATERS !!!
.
Do you remember that stupid Fallout 3 ? There it was a joke, as after 20% done in the world you already had maxed out near everything and reached Lev20, even the add on months later for lev30 was a joke, as already everyone has wasted thousands of exp. points ... THERE IT WAS TERRIBLE and game was boring after 20% ...

Here I don't see any problem, when you have solved 100% and done EVERYTHING in the game and you just hit Level 25 IT WAS PERFECT GAMEDESIGN and THANK YOU to the developers ! ANd it seems it is that way ...
I think I will be able to tell you in maybe a week (played now 50hours, solved 30%, Level 12)

Thank you for posting...but none of this has anything to do with this topic.

[Danzara_666]

Well they most probably meant that there isn't a level cap that you WILL get stuck in before the end. There was such a thing in KOTOR for example.

To me, level cap is the point you can no longer get any more bonuses from your exp. And since you can't even reach the highest point of exp bonus in DA, I wouldn't consider it a level cap.



And when you'll say I'm totally incorrect and not in topic at all, I'll just say: Yes, they lied to YOU. Bad, bad game developers lied to you blatantly. So get over it and whine about something else



(The last part is half-joke)

[Flash Aron]

... I see it that there is still no level cap, as there is also no indoor "high jump" cap for humans (without help) in real live. Even there is a ceiling, but nobody will hit it :-)

[BonafideSeraphim]

Danzara_666 wrote...

Well they most probably meant that there isn't a level cap that you WILL get stuck in before the end. There was such a thing in KOTOR for example.
To me, level cap is the point you can no longer get any more bonuses from your exp. And since you can't even reach the highest point of exp bonus in DA, I wouldn't consider it a level cap.

And when you'll say I'm totally incorrect and not in topic at all, I'll just say: Yes, they lied to YOU. Bad, bad game developers lied to you blatantly. So get over it and whine about something else

(The last part is half-joke)

Nah, I only say that to people that post nonsense or can't understand that why it's a bad thing to be lied to as a consumer.

Anyway, if your post is in-line with the developers' thought processes, why not just outright say "Yes, there's a hard level cap. You won't reach it," instead of "No hard level cap," which is what was continuously posted on the other forums before release('twas an extremely common question for some reason)?

Mainly this bothers me because it brings into question many of the other things that we were told. Many, like me, were questioning(and out right critical) of some of the answers but still accepted them because Bioware has a history of being fairly open and forthright.

[Dragonlanxe]

Who cares if there is a lvl cap or not. It's the story that matters, not if your lvl 55. Also depending on upcomeing DLC they might change the lvl cap.

[Dragon Age1103]

BonafideSeraphim wrote...

Cry? Yes, I'm crying by being annoyed that we were blatantly lied to by many developers and by the manual.

God forbid we expect them to actually be honest about something extremely simple...or, you know, actually be given information about the game. Horrible manual, no technical information about skills, spells, damage, etc..., poorly written descriptions, complete lack of knowledge about how long stuns last, how spells scale to your level, and many other things.

If they weren't honest about this...what about the more complex issues that we'd been given questionable reasons for?

I love the game, I really do. I've already got 30 something hours into...but I don't take kindly to being outright lied to.

EDIT: And while I can't confirm it...I do expect it's possible to reach level 25 on a legit playthrough with some grinding and lots of wasted money...that's entirely beside the point though.

Wow you cry a lot. I mean if u just use those things called eyes u can tell how long someone is stunned. if u knew if it were 3 or 5 seconds is that going to save your life. DO you pause & go well I'm 11ft from him my char can travel 2 feet a second, he's stunned for 5.67 seconds according to the book of all knowledge...can I make it! You could just not complain & enjoy the game oh & not cheat or use console commands & enjoy the game.

[Flash Aron]

... and even if you say, why couldn't I get more exp. points, the gaming world is still here.

Even if you would design it as a real sandbox game ...

it is like "Bolt" will not run suddenly 100m in 6 sec ...

so the DA:O world function now between lev 1-25 ...

I even think that game design should be made that way, if you are doing something with your char. what he already has known or done, he shouldn't gain any more exp. ponts. So when he slains / does something below his level, he will not learn from it.

So killing the same typ of darkspawn over and over, will gain you 0 Exp. ... say when you are Lev 25 you will have to kill "Flemeth" over and over, but she is already gone ! So you could seek out everything in that world, but you already have seen everything or slain ... therefore NO EXP. GAIN and as the world was balanced around Lev 1-25 you are stuck. The world has to change and it will change with new DLC

[Suron]

and this matters how? there SHOULD be a cap...I'm already picking talents (trap making/herb/poison/etc) that I don't really want or need on my chars because there's not enough choices or variety...



same with main ability/spells...the limited choices can only take you so far...



so what if you COULD hit lvl 99 if back at lvl 35 you had every skill/ability/and spell possible on your sheet.



But there always has to be the idiots that jump on the "X company LIED" bandwagon..no matter how idiotic or meaningless the reason they found is.



and as I said if yer gonna be disappointed in something be so in the lack of skills...because there certainly isn't enough if there wasn't some kind of cap.



so go join the crowd of people that MUST find something to **** about a company...but if you think this cap thing has any bearing or deserves any kind of emotional response then I'd hate to see how you react to something that does deserve it..you'd probably jump off a building

[JDMusgrove]

I'm so glad that so many people are either to lazy to read what was written before they posted or just don't care to being out right lied to them, simply grand.

[FlintlockJazz]

Are people certain they said there would be no level caps? I feel that there is some misunderstanding here, as I was led to believe that they meant that there would be no caps on stats. In order to prevent players from becoming super specialists many devs will apply caps to stats in order to stop players from piling all their points into one, either by applying hard caps (stats can never go above a certain level no matter what, though it's often determined by level) or soft caps (players can keep piling points into stats but the benefits to do so get less and less, so you end up having to spend more points for less of a gain). I understand that DA:O doesn't have caps to the stats, so that might be where the confusion has come from.



As for the level cap, I thought it was capped at 20 so knowing that it's at 25 is like an increase to me!