145 réponses à ce sujet

[Pulse.01]

Sounds to me like there is no realistically reachable level cap through normal playing of the game as it is in it's present state.



I can see how it might be a concern for an enormous, epic campaign that someone might want to make in the toolset, but give them a chance to address certain game issues.



The game hasn't even been out a month and there is some hypercritical game-bashing floating around.



For me, this game is extremely fulfilling and a satisfying experience, my money has been very well spent as far as I can see.

[Godeshus]

Somebody please quote what is said about the level cap. In other words, I would like to see an official quote that basically says "There is absolutely no level cap whatsoever". I would, but I don't have the manual here with me (I'm at work).



My point is this: You guys should Read what is written about this in the manual and on the faq. No where does it say that there isn't a level cap. From what I remember, the manual states something like "Dragon Age: Origins does not have a hard level cap". In the faq it states that most people will finish the game at between levels 15-20. Even if you can eke out a little extra xp, you could make it to level 21, possibly 22. No way you'll get to the "soft" cap at level 25. The only people who are complaining about this are people who are using console cheats. I have no problem with cheating, if that's how you want to play. It's your game, not mine. But don't complain that the original release won't let you cheat as much as you want to. That's just silly.

[Mordaedil]

Godeshus wrote...

Somebody please quote what is said about the level cap. In other words, I would like to see an official quote that basically says "There is absolutely no level cap whatsoever". I would, but I don't have the manual here with me (I'm at work).

Here.

Kelston wrote...

You failed to understand what I was saying.

The
2da was edited, I bumped myself to just before 25 so I could spam some
experience in an attempt to get past 25. Regardless of the editted 2da
files, the game turned off xp gain at 25.

This is information you omitted from your post. I will look into it when I get home.

[Nighteye2]

BonafideSeraphim wrote...

It seems so. We were repeatedly told that there was no hard level cap by developers. Even the manual states that there is not level cap.

However, MANY people have been saying that there is a cap at level 25. Even Georg's website suggests that there's a level cap at 25 since that's where the levels stop on his own chart.

So what's the truth?

You can't reach lvl 25 without cheating. So there is no level cap you can reach while playing through the game normally.

[AdrynBliss]

i'm sure it must be possible to reach 25 without cheating, my first play through i'm sure i finished on 23 and i'd missed some quests and hadn't killed any high dragons.

However with out any old saves i can't prove it. On my second play through now though so i promise a screenshot once i make it.

[KalDurenik]

Problem is that they lied. They could just have said "the level cap is 25" Oh well Bioware don't seem to look at these forum so much now days... ... (and its just after release)...

[Spaceweed10]

BonafideSeraphim wrote...

It seems so. We were repeatedly told that there was no hard level cap by developers. Even the manual states that there is not level cap.

However, MANY people have been saying that there is a cap at level 25. Even Georg's website suggests that there's a level cap at 25 since that's where the levels stop on his own chart.

So what's the truth?

Of course there is a level cap - it will cap at the maximum available 'xp' that is provided in the game.  Use your limited brain.

[Pulse.01]

Yeah, they lied, I can't BELIEVE I can't level my party to level 100,000,000,000 I mean WTF IS GOING ON HERE?!?!?!?! LIES!!!!!

[Bryy_Miller]

BonafideSeraphim wrote...

Yes, being annoyed because you were lied to about a product you bought is so stupid...

I would think that stupid stuff like "the level cap is actually higher omg" would actually be very, very low on on the list of False Marketing for ANY video game.

[Godeshus]

 To all of those who are upset that bioware lied to them about the levelcap, even though they can't reach it in a single play through, I thank you very very much. You have all reminded me of the following clip, and had me in stitches for a good 20 minutes.

www.youtube.com/watch

[Althernai]

Actually, they didn't lie, they just chose their words very carefully. They said that there is no level cap and there effectively isn't: the maximum level is set to 99 and you'd run out of talents and skills to choose at level up long before you reach it. There is an XP cap at the amount necessary to reach level 25, but this is not the same thing.

[Nooneyouknow13]

It's pretty bloody easy to hit 25 actually. The army donations give a rather large amount of XP, and it doesn't take much of a genius to figure out that elfroot is dirt cheap, and available in unlimited quantities. That said, the cap is easily adjusted if you actually care, so I fail to see the issue of it existing.

[dtsazza]

There was always going to be some level cap, if only because computer storage isn't infinite and at some point you need to draw a line in the sand and say "this is enough."

I don't feel that there's anything worth throwing aroudn accusations of lying over. There is a mechanical level cap at level 99, which is beyond any benefits you could reasonably get from levelling up. The XP cap kicks in lower (around level 25), but again this is above the amount of XP you can get from actually playing the game. Bear in mind that since there are no respawning enemies in DA:O, there is a total amount of XP that is attainable in the original campaign - so it's clear that the XP cap is for technical reasons and will not impact on the game at all.

Also, I don't believe Georg has ever said there's no level cap. In the quotes linked above, he is in fact talking about the cap on several occasions (including at one point his justifications for raising it to level 25 and saying that no-one will be able to reach it). While Chris Priestley has explicitly said "no level cap", this is likely because he believed it to be the case - since it essentially is. I would not be surprised if this is what he was actually told - as a technical worker myself, you don't overload people with the details they don't need to hear. If it's impossible for a player to hit an arbitrary point beyond which they can't progress when playing the game - then it makes sense to tell non-developers that there's no level cap.



Just some players will decide to use the console to try and create a level 100 player doesn't reduce the validity of Bioware's statement. You can consider whether there's a level cap in the game and a level cap in the engine as two separate statements. I think it's safe to say that Bioware have always been talking about the game, the original campaign, unless the context indicates otherwise. As soon as you start using their engine as a platform for your own modifications (including console commands) you need to be aware of the technicalities of the engine; but if you're just playing the game, there's no level cap.

[Godeshus]

dtsazza wrote...

Just some players will decide to use the console to try and create a level 100 player doesn't reduce the validity of Bioware's statement. You can consider whether there's a level cap in the game and a level cap in the engine as two separate statements. I think it's safe to say that Bioware have always been talking about the game, the original campaign, unless the context indicates otherwise. As soon as you start using their engine as a platform for your own modifications (including console commands) you need to be aware of the technicalities of the engine; but if you're just playing the game, there's no level cap.

the entire post was very intelligently put together, but this last paragraph explains it perfectly. I believe the issue lies within the psychology of marketing. There are people who just don't want a level cap, so anything that sounds like it is saying just that becomes fact. 

ie. People hear what they want to hear/ read what they want to read.  It is good practice to actively question what we are told.  Language is a powerful thing, as is easy to take something out of context when certain words can make implications, but never actually say it right out.  

[GoldenusG]

Nooneyouknow13 wrote...

It's pretty bloody easy to hit 25 actually. The army donations give a rather large amount of XP, and it doesn't take much of a genius to figure out that elfroot is dirt cheap, and available in unlimited quantities. That said, the cap is easily adjusted if you actually care, so I fail to see the issue of it existing.

Gah!  Someone pointed that out just as I was about to comment on it!  Blast!

On my playthrough - which was mostly on easy, dropped to that after many failed attempts to save the population of RedCliffe, and then never re-raised, I was 100 experience shy of level 24 on completing the game.  This was having done practically everything possible, and only donating the various bit and bobs I found, even then I've still got the best part of 300 gold, and a couple of hundred crafting doodads, along with a few runes and gems to (potentially) turn in.  So it is likely very possible to reach level 25 without exploiting the game.  Whether you'd be able to hit 26 is another matter - even if it were to have an xp goal.

Regardless, the advertising of 'No level cap' when there is one is in very bad form.  I've decided to assume that rather than blatently lying about it, the person responsible for setting the xp requirements got lazy and decided that no-one would reach it, so why bother typing those few numbers...  So incompetance rather than malevolence.

[SheffSteel]

MPhone wrote...

I guess people will search for anything to cry about. Run along now and tell your mommy. I am sure she will call the mean people at BioWare and give them a stern talking to for lying to her pumpkin.

I'm thinking of cutting and pasting this into every thread on the forum.

And why not?
It is applicable to every discussion, even if it isn't relevant to any.


edit

We were not lied to.
Here's what I remember the devs saying.
(1) There is no hard level cap.
(2) By the time you've finished the game, you will be at level 18-22.
(3) There is a soft cap at level 25.

Note for non-programmers
When devs talk about a hard limit they mean "hard coded" as in a number that's written into the game code. That number can only be changed in a patch or new version of the game. By contrast, a soft limit is a limit in the game's data, which could theoretically be changed using modding tools or DLC.

Modifié par SheffSteel, 18 novembre 2009 - 03:15 .

[Statue]

If* it's not possible to reach level 25 in a single playthrough, the problem is one of principles and honesty in marketing rather than being a gameplay issue to worry about at present.

A problem might arise in future considering DLC which might make it possible to hit 25 in a single playthrough, but I would hope that new player levels would be added to address that possibility. I'd guess new player levels would be part of an expansion in future when there's sufficient additional content to make hitting the current cap a real possibility*

*I really have no idea whether it is possible to reach that cap within a single playthrough as I've not played through all the way even once yet - however if it *is*, then that cap would be an issue. I'll test it by doing everything and killing everything and will report back in 4 months (by which time an expansion will be out granting access to level 50).

Modifié par Statue, 18 novembre 2009 - 02:59 .

[MarshalVaako]

If it is impossible to reach the level cap without hacking the game...then there is no level cap.



In the future when the release more DLC if it becomes possible to cap then it will become an issue. But more then likely then will "raise" the invisible cap before it becomes a problem.

[FatedHeart]

NetBeansAndJava wrote...

Boeresmurf wrote...

no hard lvl ap because its excpecte that without console abusing.. u dont reach lvl 25 in 1 playthrough.

but programming technical they needed to make a lvl cap.. but there is no reachable lvl cap in the current state of the game

Not sure why there would need to be a technical lvl cap b/c of programming constraints.  That just seems like a silly thing to do.  25 does not sound like a programming issue, since most of those would be base 2 (binary).

I bet the hard cap is there for as a balancing issue.  My guess is that enemies scale in difficulty with your lvl more slowly than you scale in power.  Therefore, the cap is meant to keep the game entertaining.

Just my thoughts.

Actually from a programming aspect setting a definate hard cap solves many game design issues. If the player has no limit on how high then youd have to allow for unlimited enemy scaling which means that at around level 100,000 (consoled to of course) the enemies mechanics would all be using four to five digit numbers in the formulas for working out damage and health. This while isnt an issue for the hardware can cause issues with the software. For example, the 255 digit limit implied by alot of languages for string characters and array limits would start to come into effect after youve got something with 255 digits (if the player decides to level to that high... not probable but it could happen) then youve got your maths being "cut" short as it were by numbers that suddenly dont make any sense..

As far as the context is concerned, again from a design point of view giving the player a hard cap, in turn allows the enemys to have a max level as to what they possibly could be.. which in turn allows for easier scaling for difficulty levels, xp levels and simpler formulas for calculating damage , health, resistance ect ect

[Damar Stiehl]

They LIED TO US!!!



The level cap is supposed to be OVER 9000!!!

[lawsie100]

i beleive the fact is, your not supposed to, nor be able to get to level 25, those that did either used a bug with recurring quest hand ins or used the toolset. simple as that, there is not enough content to get to lvl 25, or beyond it so really, there is no hard cap at all on the game if you think of it that way. Cheat and there is though.

[Loregothe]

"WAAH! someone lied to me. My mom bought me this game and no I can't cheat my way to level 10,000."



Get over it kid. You are going to be "lied to" about many more important things than that.

[F-C]

a computer cannot handle numbers going to infinity, so no matter what there would always be a level cap. if the level cap was 9999999999999 or 25 doesnt really matter, there would still be one.

setting it above what is reachable in a playthrough doing all the content in the game is effectively making a 'no level cap' game.

there is a big difference between that and a game where you hit the level cap and still have 25% of the game left to do.

if you cant see that, you are just looking for something to troll about.

Modifié par F-C, 18 novembre 2009 - 04:18 .

[Pulse.01]

^ this

[CorwynNiTessine]

Georg has a website? What's the address?