263 réponses à ce sujet

[Lioneste]

Keep it dark and gritty Bioware. Currently my favorite books are the Game of Throne (Song of Ice and Fire) books by George R R Martin. Why? Because they show a fantasy world with realism, where every person is in fact: a person- not the epitome of right and wrong, good or evil. I’m sick to my stomach of cliché heroes and self-righteous fuzzy gaming…

Dragon Age impressed me because it hit on the shades of grey that exist in real life. Even those who you consider a villain can turn out for the better, and vice versa. There is no definite right or wrong, just the fact that you’ll have to slaughter countless humans/darkspawns/elves through the game proves you’re a killer, no matter your moral idiotic justifications. Much as people want, nothing in life can be boxed up and told it’s so… its simply a convenient delusion of the mind.

Give us more of what you’ve done with Dragon Age, realism, darkness, gritty choices without the fuzzybearic-fantasynerd-influence. The world is one amazing mess of opinions and shades of grey, and because of that, it’s a wonder and a pure joy to experience.

…its in the eye of the beholder.

Modifié par Lioneste, 13 novembre 2009 - 01:25 .

[Livemmo]

Considering theres still a happy ending I wouldnt call it as dark as you may think. Obviously, being a Grey Warden comes with a price, but it's for the greater good. I'm not exactly sure what game you've been playing, but after beating the game and seeing the ending, I really cant say I saw anything that was 'over the top'. Infact, the only problem I have with the game is that it forces you into being a hero at the end..

[Narzon]

Arguably you could just kill the archdemon for selfish purposes. I don't see how they could choose an ending like "Don't do anything to the dragon". And have the texts afterwards read "You did a lot of stuff, but none of it matters, because human kind has been eradicated".
As a man working purely by practicality, joining the Grey Wardens to escape a death sentence, killing Arl Eamon's son to save time, destroying the circle of magi to gain the aid of the templars, and massacring the dalish to have the werewolve, my dwarf character certainly was no hero. In the end, I let Alistair sacrifice himself just so that I could surive. Yes, I suppose I saved a great deal of lives, but above those was my own.

Modifié par Narzon, 13 novembre 2009 - 01:43 .

[Dragonsword18]

Ninjaphrog wrote...

elikal71 wrote...

I never thought I'd say that, but I stopped playing DA and prolly will not continue. I wrote a lengthy post already. After a first try playing 30% through, I restarted to make better choices since in the first run every single char had dropped back to neutral towards me.

I had seen a game where every single step was bleak and dark. Maybe you call me carebear, but I really reached the limit here. I won't call all the detail where I felt more and more depressed, but when Alistair finally told me I would have worse nightmares and then be taken over by the darkness, so yay I can die young and all Wardens go to Ozamar to die in heroic battle. What a cheat.

You know, I played all origins, and truth be told, in NONE I really found I wanted to be a Grey Warden, even before I knew it all.

First, the game has a good - evil morality in terms of duty (Wynne, Alistair" VS selfishness evil (Morrigan, Zevran) that I can't share. Demons, sins, atonement... sheesh I felt like fallen into some 16th centure church story!! So I can chose to sacrifice my whole life to some holy crusade against evil or I can run away and let the entire world perish. WTF? At some point I wonder if Pope Benedict and the Vatican wrote this story? The entire idea of being fored down a path of being either 100% a tool of duty and give up all personal happiness (because I am strangely unreplacable) or to let the world rot is just a tad too extreme. Sorry to say, but at leats I play computer games for the escapism, for the good feeling, not by this angsty, depressive feeling.

Dammit, I feel like being trapped in a position with no exit to have a life I decide. ALL is decided for me, I MUST be a Warden, and imvpo that organization sux. I mean the cheat people into it, the make people tools and all in the so called greater good. Well at least I dont believe the end always justifies the means. Forcing people to drink that blood and not telling them all the truth is sort of rape. And at least playing a raped character wasnt entertaining last time I checked.

I feel betrayed, raped and left alone by every single character, and at that point I realized that this game stopped to make me feel good and began to make me feel seriously depressed. I admit I am not very thick skinned, but I must, for the first time in 25 years gaming, say that this game may not be morally right. I at least can no longer support this as form of "fun entertainment" in any length. I just realize that THIS kind of world, story and characters are making at least me not happier but merely depressed, and thats not what I play games for. It really hit me hard, I must admit, and its a point where I must say that my path with Bioware games is ending.



EDIT, and just to be sure, I spoilt myself now, reading the various endings, and they all are variations of suktastic, at least in my book. But that seems to be fashion of the decade. See Fallout 3, see Divinity 2. In the end same **** as in beginning, more or less.

I completely agree with every single word, and this will most deffinately be my first and last Bioware game. Their idea of fun is my idea of sick and gruesome. Sure it's pixels and bytes and a story written by people who need some bright lights in their life, but honestly, it really does sound like some fanatic religious bastard decided to write a more interresting view on forcefully making people do what they really do not want to do, and brainwashing them into thinking it's the right thing to do...Greater good my freaking butthole.

if ppl need a bright side... why they actualy buying this game if they know that it is a dark game?

[syllogi]

For those expressing amazement that a game can cause people to feel sick or sad enough to stop playing, it's really not that hard to imagine. Personally, I don't read books anymore that are extremely depressing or dark (why did I pick up "The Road" after reading "Blood Meridian", yikes), I get too caught up in it if the story is well told, and real life can be hard and bleak enough, without falling into a depression over fiction.



I also don't play games with PvP because I was raised in a violent home. It might sound crazy to some people, but I like escapism in my games, not a chance to ponder why young people on XBox Live have to use racial slurs to get their point across.



That being said, I love this game, and find there is much more entertainment and fun to be had than darkness. Look at a character like Sten, who at face value should be a humorless killing machine, but turns out to be hilarious, or the surprise appearance of a minor character right before the final battle, to me things like that more than make up for the dark stuff.

[Dragonsword18]

Ninjaphrog wrote...

Hizuka wrote...

Ah, yes, when you can no longer defend your stance, resort to personal attacks. Well done - I stand in awe at your amazing skills in debate.

And I have no trouble defending my ....stance? But if you don't like my opinion? Go hang with the other ****faces.

wooow... ur so immature...pls if u will write that kind of post just dont do it... close the tab and go play some "bright" game....

[simpatikool]

I thought the point of this game though was to tell the story of a Grey Warden facing the blight. That is a story arc you don't get to change in this game. That is the main story line they are running off of, and it is a troubling story indeed.



Why would they present an option where you are not a grey warden? Thats a whole different story, a whole different game.

[GregorLightbringer]

Bedlam66 wrote...

I can't wrap my head around that the fact that People are getting so worked up over a GAME. I mean with some of the posts I've read it's no wonder that we have to put up with the crappy ESRB all the time over content. IT'S A GAME for gods sake. I mean I'm sure that most of the people making these posts are people who've played RPG's before all played those games where"heroes set out to save the world from big bad monsters" and there's never really any choice to what you do in that prescripted environment, but really? Playing a GAME makes you want to really Vomit? I just don't understand some people.

......to back you up some... ALSO, most people don't realize what kind of effort goes into a game today. About 10 years ago, it would have only taken about a couple of months to 1 1/2 years depending on the game. NOW it takes 3-5 years, professional actors,  and people complain when something is MISSING or not up to standards!?!?! Dude, sometimes they have to cut things OUT in order to make a internal deadline or because it's too buggy. I bet there was TONS of content they would have liked to put into it to make this a truly AWESOME game, but it just would not be practical.  

[Livemmo]

GregorLightbringer wrote...

Bedlam66 wrote...

I can't wrap my head around that the fact that People are getting so worked up over a GAME. I mean with some of the posts I've read it's no wonder that we have to put up with the crappy ESRB all the time over content. IT'S A GAME for gods sake. I mean I'm sure that most of the people making these posts are people who've played RPG's before all played those games where"heroes set out to save the world from big bad monsters" and there's never really any choice to what you do in that prescripted environment, but really? Playing a GAME makes you want to really Vomit? I just don't understand some people.

......to back you up some... ALSO, most people don't realize what kind of effort goes into a game today. About 10 years ago, it would have only taken about a couple of months to 1 1/2 years depending on the game. NOW it takes 3-5 years, professional actors,  and people complain when something is MISSING or not up to standards!?!?! Dude, sometimes they have to cut things OUT in order to make a internal deadline or because it's too buggy. I bet there was TONS of content they would have liked to put into it to make this a truly AWESOME game, but it just would not be practical.  

I agree. People also dont realize the amount of entertainment they get with that $50 they spent. You could buy ...4 dvds for $50? That would give you roughly 8 hours of entertainment. One play through alone will give you atleast 30 hours with dragon age. Thats not even to mention the replayability the core game itself gives you. These companies could and should charge alot more for less content, and yet people still complain.

[ToJKa1]

Jersey75639 wrote...

Though it's probably worth saying that I don't believe that 'sick' in that context meant a physical feeling sort of thing.

Well, my brains might have screwed up wiring, but some strong emotions do cause me stomach pain. I hope i can numb myself to this game before i get an ulcer. It's a great game, but not worth that much.

Or is it..?

[Maria Caliban]

Narzon wrote...

Arguably you could just kill the archdemon for selfish purposes. I don't see how they could choose an ending like "Don't do anything to the dragon". And have the texts afterwards read "You did a lot of stuff, but none of it matters, because human kind has been eradicated".

There are thousands of other Wardens who could kill the archdemon, and the people of Thedas have worse Blights.

[Korsriddare]

Ninjaphrog wrote...
Or you can kill the child, or have his mother do it...yes...it is

Or you can try a little harder saved the child without killing either the child or mother.

[Korsriddare]

Ninjaphrog wrote...
Or you can kill the child, or have his mother do it...yes...it is

Or you can try a little harder and save the child without killing either the child or mother.

[Dragonsword18]

Korsriddare wrote...

Ninjaphrog wrote...
Or you can kill the child, or have his mother do it...yes...it is

Or you can try a little harder saved the child without killing either the child or mother.

yes... its all about u... u decide if somthing is dark or light... u can be evil... kill everyone u can...dont help noone with finding familys member etc... its all up to you. You decide will a Conor leave or die... will his mother leave or die...

its about morality of urself... if u want play "Evil" ... play

if u want play a "Good" character... then play as a good and help all ppl...

U complain you dont have chance to be whoever u want... U are Grey Warden... its all about them ... this game show u they history... what they have to do when the times come like this... 

so stop complaining...

dont play if u feel sick...
play if u dont...

ty

Dragonsword:wub:

[Livemmo]

I'll say that not all the choices that you make are as 'black and white' as they were in past Bioware games, but this is both a blessing and a curse. While it does make the story seem more interesting because the choices are 'harder to make', all this really does is take the choices people really want to make out of the game and topics like this come up.

Now, I understand that were all Grey Wardens. That's the main story and with everything we do were heading to it's conclusion: kill the archdemon. However, even though Bioware has stated there is not supposed to be an evil vs good theme with DA:O, giving the player no final choice in the end does nothing but frustrate players.

I'll put it this way. In Kotor I had the option at the end of the game to destroy the Jedi if I so chose to. I still had to kill Malik (Archdemon in this case), but in the end I still had the option to rule over the Sith and betray the Jedi if I so chose.

The reason why many players are frustrated with DA:O is because were forced into being the Hero. Not that I play the bad guy all the time, but it is fun to see just how far you can go in a Bioware game. You could tell this was coming though, just look at the ending in Mass Effect. No matter what you did, you were still FORCED to be the hero.

Let me rephrase here. I like a happy ending the same as the next guy. It's cool to see that good wins over evil and the lone hero saves the day and bla bla crap of that nature. In reality, do you really think the Darkspawn would be stopped by 1 man? Not only that, after being basically spat on the entire game by everyone in the kingdom, why would I even want to save these people and be their hero? I personally wouldnt give a good damn about anyone and would just move myself to Orlai or whatever and let them have their fake king and Darkspawn.

Modifié par Livemmo, 13 novembre 2009 - 07:34 .

[Livemmo]

SightlessMage wrote...

LOL @ OP
Growup, crybaby.
Ya I'm a jerk, sue me.

mm while the OP may be taking the game itself a bit too serious, I highly doubt it really bothered him as much as it may seem. There are far worse things that happen in movies or hell... even day-to-day life. I find most of the content humorous to be honest, but nothing really felt like it was 'over the top' with this game. Of course, I'm also used to Bioware games and what they may or may not include.

After all my complaining that I've made in this topic, I must admit the game itself is very well done. Even though I may have done a few things different with the story, I still very much enjoyed it. It's because of this that I dont even second guess Bioware games. I dont wait for reviews, I go out on release day and purchase anything Bioware puts out. It's always well worth my money.

[ITSSEXYTIME]

Livemmo wrote...

I'll say that not all the choices that you make are as 'black and white' as they were in past Bioware games, but this is both a blessing and a curse. While it does make the story seem more interesting because the choices are 'harder to make', all this really does is take the choices people really want to make out of the game and topics like this come up.

Now, I understand that were all Grey Wardens. That's the main story and with everything we do were heading to it's conclusion: kill the archdemon. However, even though Bioware has stated there is not supposed to be an evil vs good theme with DA:O, giving the player no final choice in the end does nothing but frustrate players.

I'll put it this way. In Kotor I had the option at the end of the game to destroy the Jedi if I so chose to. I still had to kill Malik (Archdemon in this case), but in the end I still had the option to rule over the Sith and betray the Jedi if I so chose.

The reason why many players are frustrated with DA:O is because were forced into being the Hero. Not that I play the bad guy all the time, but it is fun to see just how far you can go in a Bioware game. You could tell this was coming though, just look at the ending in Mass Effect. No matter what you did, you were still FORCED to be the hero.

Let me rephrase here. I like a happy ending the same as the next guy. It's cool to see that good wins over evil and the lone hero saves the day and bla bla crap of that nature. In reality, do you really think the Darkspawn would be stopped by 1 man? Not only that, after being basically spat on the entire game by everyone in the kingdom, why would I even want to save these people and be their hero? I personally wouldnt give a good damn about anyone and would just move myself to Orlai or whatever and let them have their fake king and Darkspawn.

Your point is moot because there's several radically different endings: Your character doesn't have to be the "hero".

I also disagree that just because you can't be a stereotypical evil " I don't care let's kill everyone" psychopath that the game doesn't give you freedoms.  Yes, the start of the game is fairly linear and yes the end of the game is always the same but it's all about the branches in between and after.  That's what makes your character's experience through the game so much different than mine. 

[Livemmo]

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...

Livemmo wrote...

I'll say that not all the choices that you make are as 'black and white' as they were in past Bioware games, but this is both a blessing and a curse. While it does make the story seem more interesting because the choices are 'harder to make', all this really does is take the choices people really want to make out of the game and topics like this come up.

Now, I understand that were all Grey Wardens. That's the main story and with everything we do were heading to it's conclusion: kill the archdemon. However, even though Bioware has stated there is not supposed to be an evil vs good theme with DA:O, giving the player no final choice in the end does nothing but frustrate players.

I'll put it this way. In Kotor I had the option at the end of the game to destroy the Jedi if I so chose to. I still had to kill Malik (Archdemon in this case), but in the end I still had the option to rule over the Sith and betray the Jedi if I so chose.

The reason why many players are frustrated with DA:O is because were forced into being the Hero. Not that I play the bad guy all the time, but it is fun to see just how far you can go in a Bioware game. You could tell this was coming though, just look at the ending in Mass Effect. No matter what you did, you were still FORCED to be the hero.

Let me rephrase here. I like a happy ending the same as the next guy. It's cool to see that good wins over evil and the lone hero saves the day and bla bla crap of that nature. In reality, do you really think the Darkspawn would be stopped by 1 man? Not only that, after being basically spat on the entire game by everyone in the kingdom, why would I even want to save these people and be their hero? I personally wouldnt give a good damn about anyone and would just move myself to Orlai or whatever and let them have their fake king and Darkspawn.

Your point is moot because there's several radically different endings: Your character doesn't have to be the "hero".

I also disagree that just because you can't be a stereotypical evil " I don't care let's kill everyone" psychopath that the game doesn't give you freedoms.  Yes, the start of the game is fairly linear and yes the end of the game is always the same but it's all about the branches in between and after.  That's what makes your character's experience through the game so much different than mine. 

NO SER! your gaming experience was the exact same as mine because I say so.

This is my immature post of the day. Deal with it.

[Elsmallo]

I don't think it should necessarily be seen as weakness to argue that the game is too dark. I know that we live in an age of morally complicated and divisive wars, environmental fear, loss of faith in politics etc... but when people assert that to make things bleak, violent and miserable is the only way to make anything meaningful and have any relevance, and that people who find it unsettling just have weak stomachs, I rather wonder. Like, how many people did you kill on your way to work today?



I had the same issue with the Witcher after a while. Everyone's so miserable and messed up. There was a strong element of horror in that game that exists also in DA:O - I recently played the brood mother part and found it downright disturbing. On the whole I don't mind horror films, and have no fear of bleakness in fiction. I loved The Road, and also enjoyed Lunar Park. Don't read Michel Houllbeck's Whatever, though. I also thought No Country for Old Men was a bit much.



I just wonder about the merits of having the same bleakness in games - I suppose it's because in games you like to feel you have options available to you, or you more fully engage with a fictional world than in books or films. Also it goes on longer. I think I'm actually beginning to fear and loath the endless darkspawn. Lots of games are like this these days and of course devs make the games they want. How people play Dead Space however I have no idea.



And of course not all of DA is so unremittingly bleak - I found the Sacred Ashes quest actually quite moving, and had no difficulty answering so in the dialogue (although I think this was the superb environments, rather than the relentless killing!) Also puzzles are good.



I think it is a fantastically well-made game, but I am finding it a bit bleak. I enjoyed BG2 thoroughly, which was certainly dark in parts, but had the less threatening and comparatively cosmopolitain D&D Forgotten Realms as its backdrop.



I guess when I read the 'dark fantasy' tag on DA I figured the game would be about as dark as other so-called titles, which tend to think a spiky hero and visuals are all that are necessary to achieve this effect. So I suppose congratulations to the devs for making a game that is truly...um, dark.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Look at a character like Sten, who at face value should be a humorless killing machine, but turns out to be hilarious, or the surprise appearance of a minor character right before the final battle, to me things like that more than make up for the dark stuff.

Yup, first playthrough whilst I had Sten in my group, I never had him in the party much as was nicely settled with the original 4/5 with my female human noble warrior, yet I used him during once instance where I kinda had to due to something happening with two of my characters and had such a blast, then of course due to the ending I had, I have decided in my next run through he is definitly going to be more a part of my team...

I was originally going to play my character as a major zealot style character but found myself being drawn in to softening her up (even though she did harden both Leliana and Alastair) a bit, it all happened in the circle tower actually because I had her kill Wynne there, but by the end of that situation her opinion of mages had changed thanks to a certain other mage (not morrigan).

Oh and yes that surprise appearance just before the final battle certainly brought a smile to my face. Certainly would be interesting to know how he managed to get there though

One last thing that really did make all the darkness in the game pale into the background...
the cake is a lie

[TheChimes]

Dusty Arne wrote...

Lol.. this topic is pretty funny.

If you dont like the game.. dont play it..

If you like it... have fun with it..

Its nobody's fault... its a dark game. though i have to say i laugh a lot too... i love the black humor.

I love the game... I like dark, i play dark. if i want happy games i play lego indiana.

/agree

its just a game i mean c'mon, if you want a happy game go play hello kitty

[Bryy_Miller]

Ninjaphrog wrote...

Hizuka wrote...

Ninjaphrog wrote...

I completely agree with every single word, and this will most deffinately be my first and last Bioware game. Their idea of fun is my idea of sick and gruesome. Sure it's pixels and bytes and a story written by people who need some bright lights in their life, but honestly, it really does sound like some fanatic religious bastard decided to write a more interresting view on forcefully making people do what they really do not want to do, and brainwashing them into thinking it's the right thing to do...Greater good my freaking butthole.

So freeing a child from demonic possession is sick and gruesome?
So destroying an item that uses living souls to create fighting machines is sick and gruesome?
So freeing a people from a 400 year-old curse is sick and gruesome?
So saving humans, elves, and dwarves from extermination is sick and gruesome?



Hello Kitty Online is over thataway.

Or you can kill the child, or have his mother do it...yes...it is
Or giving it to an obsessive maniac...yes..it is
But the only way is to kill a man...yes...it is
By forcing people with families from their homes cause 1 man has the ability to do so? Yes...it ****ing is.



I simply wont point you anywhere cause your sick ass doesnt belong anywhere.

One of my huge pet peeves is when people project subject matter of fiction on to what the author/audience actually feels. Being emotionally invested in a piece of art is one thing, but not realizing that a story of fiction does not reflect the author or reader's viewpoints is another.

[TheChimes]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Ninjaphrog wrote...

Hizuka wrote...

Ninjaphrog wrote...

I completely agree with every single word, and this will most deffinately be my first and last Bioware game. Their idea of fun is my idea of sick and gruesome. Sure it's pixels and bytes and a story written by people who need some bright lights in their life, but honestly, it really does sound like some fanatic religious bastard decided to write a more interresting view on forcefully making people do what they really do not want to do, and brainwashing them into thinking it's the right thing to do...Greater good my freaking butthole.

So freeing a child from demonic possession is sick and gruesome?
So destroying an item that uses living souls to create fighting machines is sick and gruesome?
So freeing a people from a 400 year-old curse is sick and gruesome?
So saving humans, elves, and dwarves from extermination is sick and gruesome?



Hello Kitty Online is over thataway.

Or you can kill the child, or have his mother do it...yes...it is
Or giving it to an obsessive maniac...yes..it is
But the only way is to kill a man...yes...it is
By forcing people with families from their homes cause 1 man has the ability to do so? Yes...it ****ing is.



I simply wont point you anywhere cause your sick ass doesnt belong anywhere.

One of my huge pet peeves is when people project subject matter of fiction on to what the author/audience actually feels. Being emotionally invested in a piece of art is one thing, but not realizing that a story of fiction does not reflect the author or reader's viewpoints is another.

yours too huh?  yea its annoying, and ninjaphong... quit looking at the evil sides...