263 réponses à ce sujet

[JamesX]

Stop feeding the troll people

[superfeds26]

I think that even tho this game is very dark and bittersweet, its a welcome change to the usual RPG morality choice games



Almost all games that use the morality choice mechanic in games, make the options painfully obvious. There is a good, neautral and evil path. KoToR, Mass Effect, NWN, Fallout 3....all those games the results were pretty obvious and while some people really want to play their characters has straight white knights....doing it over and over and over again in every game can get hold.



I think the ambiguity of the choices in this game are what make it stand out. It plays on your notions of good and bad and uses it against you. I was very surprised when I first beat the game, and saw how some of the choices I thought were "good" actually had negative affects.



I think this just makes the game more real and immersive..not neccessarily dark.



Id also point out that there are several options in the ending that dont have you sacrificing yourself, and who knows if YOU the player will really succomb to the taint and die in the deeproads...this is a video games, there is always some way to save someone, if the devs so choose in future expansions or sequels

[Maufurtado]

Four words:



Don't play it then.

[elikal71]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

elikal71 wrote...
Yes, but why would I want to play Easter European WWII Ghetto person, destined to terror and Concentration Camp stories in MY SPARE TIME RECREATION HOBBY???

Then pray tell, why the hell did you buy Dragon Age when it was said over and over again that it was a dark fantasy?

Because I didn't expect it to be that dark. *shrug*  I could not imagine Bioware makes such things. The way the Warden "recruit" is nothing like forcing people to take Herione to make them addict and make sure you stay in that Mafia or Crime Circle. I don't know how that can be entertaining anymore.

[Boycarino09]

I'm genuinely not trying to troll you, bro, but I think you may be a little too sensitive for this type of gaming. If you were insomniac for a few days after Fallout 3 then you truly ought not put yourself through the emotional rigors of a certain type of role playing game. I'm not being sarcastic. I know some people take things really seriously and if you are one of them then definitely back off from the game and take a walk. Get some sun, and smile a lot.



I get you in that sometimes a movie can move me to a point where I'm 'affected' for a few days, but not to a point where I can't sleep or can't just shrug it off. And yes, this game is dark. But for me it has enough light to make it worth while.



In regards to the Wardens... well that's just a given. It is the subject matter of the game. Now there is choice in regards to how you construct your character, but being a Warden is what the game is about. The plot and story revolve around just that! It's not good or bad, it just is. This is the game they made! If you don't love it, for real don't let it get to you. Just play something else till you feel better. Frankly, by the remarks you made I think you should box the thing up and try to get your money back. It's just really not for you.



And don't talk bad about Zev anymore! He's by boy!

[elikal71]

As someone who is greatly influenced by Superhero comics, one of the quality standards for good entertainment I regarded in great esteem, was the 1989 version of the Comic Code.  Quoting from a few most central:

"Socially responsible attitudes will be favorably depicted and
reinforced. Socially inappropriate, irresponsible, or illegal behaviour
will be shown to be specific actions of a specific individual or group
of individuals, and not meant to reflect the routine activity of any
general group of real persons."

"Violent actions or scenes are acceptable within the context of a comic
book story when dramatically appropriate. Violent behavior will not be
shown as acceptable. If it is presented in a realistic manner, care
should be taken to present the natural repercussions of such actions.
Publishers should avoid excessive levels of violence, excessively
graphic depictions of violence, and excessive bloodshed or gore.
Publishers will not present detailed information instructing readers
how to engage in imitable violent actions."

"If it is dramatically appropriate for one character to demean another
because of his or her sex, ethnicity, religion, sexual preference,
political orientation, socioeconomic disadvantages should never assign
ultimate responsibility for these condictions to the character
themselves. Heroes should be role models and should reflect the
prevailing social attitudes."


"Healthy, wholesome lifestyles will be presented as desirable.
HGowever, the use and abuse of controlled substances, legal and
illicit, are facts of modern existence, and may be portrayed when
dramatically appropiate."


Call me old fashioned, but I considered this Codex always as a very good standard for pupblishing good stories for entertainment. But alas in our amoral days breaking ethics is the fashion of the day.

[Notthisguyagain]

Have not finished the game, but I am sure I will, simply because it is so "Dark".



This darkness is what your character fights against, it is the driving force behind everything you decide to do. Your character is pulled in to fight against it, and sure, maybe you didn't have the same notion as many did, that your character (or you) are following some sort of higher calling, or finding some higher purpose in the Grey Wardens. It is kind of like enlisting in the military. If I told you, hey you can serve your country and protect freedom and have a chance to kiss a baby somewhere whose life will forever be changed for the better because you were around, but on the other hand odds are a bit higher that you will be killed or injured. Many people still take on that mantle.



Yet, in a computer/videogame, when "pushed" into this choice by extreme circumstances you can't bring yourself to either a) see where it goes, quietly stop playing, or c) immerse yourself in a false reality that exists only on a hard drive and dvd/gamedisc and attempt to put a stop to this "darkness" in a way that really doesn't put you at any real risk (assuming you allow yourself distance and don't go psychotic)



The worst thing that could happen is you don't enjoy yourself, the best thing that could happen is you do.



I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.

[Cursek]

You know, it's only up to your Gray Warden to overcome the difficulties of such tasks put out in front of you. Read more Marvel Comics, lol.

[Cursek]

You know, it's only up to your Gray Warden to overcome the difficulties of such tasks put out in front of you. Read more Marvel Comics, lol.

[Dragonsword18]

elikal71

i give u advise....

dont take games to personal to urself or just dont play ...

[Trelow-LMG]

Cursek wrote...

You know, it's only up to your Gray Warden to overcome the difficulties of such tasks put out in front of you. Read more Marvel Comics, lol.

Word. DC sucks.

[wlderotter]

elikal71 wrote...

SPOILERS for FALLOUT 3 ENDING and DIVINITY 2 ENDING coming!!!!
SPOILERS for FALLOUT 3 ENDING and DIVINITY 2 ENDING coming!!!!
SPOILERS for FALLOUT 3 ENDING and DIVINITY 2 ENDING coming!!!!


Ok, had to say that ahead. Ya know, I played both Divinity 2 and Fallout 3, and both were great games, good feeling despite the darkness in the world, but in the end, I felt... betrayed. Heck, I recall after Fallout 3 ending I was insomniac for 3 or 4 days! After all I had done they wanted ME to sacrifice myself? Wow, what form of entertainment is that? Is Concentration Camp Sim the next hit or what?? Sorry if that sounds carebearish to you, but at least *I* play games as escapism for an already grim RL. If I want dark I watch news on TV and I have that plenty for free.

Now I really don't need games be Disney meets Hello Kitty. By and large Fallout was always what I enjoyed (outside the ending).

Sure, in many games you are forced down a path. But the basis of my issue with the game is the Wardens. They are evil. Sorry, they ARE evil, or severly criminal at least. I had this bad feeling about Duncan when I played the many origin stories, and NEVER had this nice and rosy feeling towards Duncan as Alistair. Duncan uses outcast as tools, he manipulates people and the Warden use that blood ritual to coerce conformity, because after that point the members have no choice. You are made part of a group without knowing the bad price: that you slowly wither away and finally the darkness will inevitably overcome you and you must seek suicide in some battle before it. That is the reality of the Warden. It is nothing other than rape, and whatever Alistair says about it, the end NEVER justifies the means. Never. I felt so unwell about it, when that was revealed to me, I got nightmares and sleepless in RL now. Call me a whim if you must, but thats how it is. I am deeply disturbed, and IMVPO this game should not even be allowed without a much more clear and severe warning.

Duncans and Alistair's doings were WRONG, and in this case I feel like Rorschach: no compomises, even in the face of Armageddon. The Wardens are criminal.

If I had free choice and would not be confined to plots, I would leave. I helped save the Mages Tower and Red Cliff and I'd let Alistair go from there and take my lover Zev and whoever will follow me along. Alistair will handle just as well. And then, when the war is over, I would make sure the blood ritual of the Warden would become known, so no more people would go unknowing into this, and likely I would create a group (maybe with Zev?) to hunt down Warden, to bring those criminals to justice and wipe the Wardens from history.

Are they needed? No. That is a myth they created. Any well trained fighter can fight dawrkspawn, any dedicated person can form an order to unite the lands. The methods of the Warden are criminal, and again, like Rorschach said, there must be no compromise in justice, even in the face of Armageddon.

wow, must I point out it is a game?  I think from reading what y6ou have posted that you have a problem distinguishing between the real world and the game's world.  This game has affected you to the point of nightmares?  Seek counseling(I am not being  either sarcastic or witty), your attitude seems a bit extreme.    As far as the ends never justifying the means... sure... in real life - this is a game.  I think roleplaying is not for you since the role seems to affect your real world life.

[LdyShayna]

Dragonsword18 wrote...

elikal71

i give u advise....

dont take games to personal to urself or just dont play ...

Judging from the title of the thread, the second IS the decision that the OP finally made.  They just wanted to express their disappointment that they had to stop playing the game for this reason.

As noted later, if the OP was a big fan of previous BioWare games, I can certain understand where this comes from, personally.  While the 'rape' analogy is, I think, too much, I also think the contemptuous mockery by the other posters is similarly overboard.

[Flamin Jesus]

I found nothing about the game particularly dark, I mean yes, there were a lot of moments where I was hard pressed to select the lesser of two evils (Or the greater, in some cases), but it's a very welcome change of pace from all the fluffypillows carebear stories I've come to expect of the genre, I was actually pleasantly surprised that often the 'good' choice will lead to lower payouts and the 'evil' choice won't have immediate consequences, it means you actually have to do "the right thing, even if it has negative consequences for yourself" as opposed to "the thing that gets me the better payout even though I turned down a reward, because apparently people just LOVE giving me free stuff if I tell them I don't want anything".



In the majority of games, it's quite obvious that playing the 'good' character is the way it was intended and often the only way to play the full game (As in, with all sidequests and so on), and that a 'bad' character is (naturally) just doing it wrong. That means there is no choice involved, you don't actually play a good guy, just someone who realized that in RPG-world, the good guy always gets the girl, the kingdom and the money. I much prefer a more realistic setting where doing the right thing is something you do because you want to, not because you have to be afraid the hand of god will come down and squish you otherwise.

Also (And this is a little end-game spoilery, though I'll attempt to stay vague), I like how the story acknowledges that "a capable leader" is much more important and useful to the people than "a nice leader".



And really, a lot of people act like selfish pricks, and finally that fact of live made it into a game, whoo-hoo, more power to BioWare. Yet, there is still nothing in the game that's more depraved than what you'd see in half the households of the real world behind closed doors. It makes the story and the atmosphere more believable, the villains aren't villains because "that's just how villains are, my family has a long standing tradition of villainy, we won the villainy nobel-prize", but because they have their reasons, this even extends to demons, are you upset because "not good" isn't just mindless evil and good isn't just mindless nobility?

[Ravenshrike]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

I kinda do agree...the world of Dragon Age really is going to utter crap in a handbag, and every major plot event you come across has something awful happening to it. And there were moments where I the player felt like, "Wow, life sucks for these people."

Interesting fact: For the vast majority of human history, life has sucked for most of the people living in it at any given time. It is only within the last half millenium that this has truly begun to change on a worldwide scale.

[Red Viking]

What like about this game is that you really have to work for your happy ending. It's really dark, but the game doesn't automatically shut you out of a happy outcome just so it can stay dark and teach the player a lesson in the futility of life. You have to actively search for another way. It really helps if you have high persuasion and don't act like a homicidal jackass.

[Ravenshrike]

elikal71 wrote...

Call me old fashioned, but I considered this Codex always as a very good standard for pupblishing good stories for entertainment. But alas in our amoral days breaking ethics is the fashion of the day.

That codex gets you heroes like Superman, the most boring hero ever.

[Maria Caliban]

DC is awesome.



Also, I have to wonder how many comics you've actually read. Batman, Spider-Man, and the Punisher had some horrible experiences to become who they did.

[Godzilla vs Xenu]

"The Dark Fantasy Epic" - that's what I expected and that's what I'm getting out of DAO. I love it. : ) It's refreshing. If you want really bleak try playing Demon's Souls for a month or two, lol. I loved that too but after that this doesn't seem so bad - at least in DAO you always feel like you have living company with you. Personally, to me there have been more than enough sweet natured or cute leaning rpgs. I'm very glad for games that aren't afraid to go dark.

[Stalky24]

I had same problem last time I played Super Mario.



I am FORCED to play as a plumber and I am FORCED to risk my life for a girl named after fruit.



It makes no sense that OP is complaining about being Gray Warden.

[Stalky24]

elikal71 wrote...

"Socially responsible attitudes will be favorably depicted and
reinforced.Socially inappropriate, irresponsible, or illegal behaviour
will be shown to be specific actions of a specific individual or group
of individuals, and not meant to reflect the routine activity of any
general group of real persons."

"Violent actions or scenes are acceptable within the context of a comic
book story when dramatically appropriate. Violent behavior will not be
shown as acceptable. If it is presented in a realistic manner, care
should be taken to present the natural repercussions of such actions.
Publishers should avoid excessive levels of violence, excessively
graphic depictions of violence, and excessive bloodshed or gore.
Publishers will not present detailed information instructing readers
how to engage in imitable violent actions."

"If it is dramatically appropriate for one character to demean another
because of his or her sex, ethnicity, religion, sexual preference,
political orientation, socioeconomic disadvantages should never assign
ultimate responsibility for these condictions to the character
themselves. Heroes should be role models and should reflect the
prevailing social attitudes."

I definitly agree. Yeah,  my favorite hero is Wolverine.

and Joker is also nice example how this works in RL. (remember begining of Arkham Asylum (not game!) and the girl?).
Seriously, old man/vampire sex in League of Extraordinary Gentlemen is also interesting, not even talking about V for Vendetta...

[Duck and Cover]

Initially the game seemed brutal to me (not dark- but my image of dark is something different). I hadn't followed the game progress at all, and watched no trailers. I like to go in fresh and be surprised. And boy was I in for a surprise during the warden initiation. I was not expecting that. And then the scenes with Connor (I took the "easy" way). Wow, just wow. After that, however the game is pretty black and white good/bad. It's easy to tell which is which.



But the game has surprised me. I wasn't expecting an M rated game. I never heard of Bioware doing an M rated game. The sex, and violence kind of shocked me. But only because I wasn't expecting it. Even though I was shocked, it was a good shock. That's why I like to go into games fresh. It was an experience alright.



But I've listen to heavy metal all my life, and have watched plenty of gory movies when I was a teenager. It would take alot for me to not play a game.



question: Anyone know if the stuff with Connor is in the European version? I thought germany had rules about kids in video games. That was supposedly the reason you couldn't do a few things in Fallout2 german version. The stuff with a kid was a little shocking to me.



So what would it take for me to be really disgusted with a video game? I've never played the Grand Theft Auto games, but those seem to push the line. But I think it's done in a non serious enough manner not to be morally questionable to play it. I heard about some sick Japanese games, however. Supposedly there was a japanese game where you go around raping women. I definately would not play such a game.

[andysdead]

you aren't forced to be a grey warden.



you could not play.



bye!

[Radp]

I like this game. I don't mind it is dark because all the time you fight against evil and it is a substance of the game which counts here. I don't know what Elikal awaited from this game. Maybe he should go to play Sims or something like that.

[Cursek]

Stalky24 wrote...

elikal71 wrote...

"Socially responsible attitudes will be favorably depicted and
reinforced.Socially inappropriate, irresponsible, or illegal behaviour
will be shown to be specific actions of a specific individual or group
of individuals, and not meant to reflect the routine activity of any
general group of real persons."

"Violent actions or scenes are acceptable within the context of a comic
book story when dramatically appropriate. Violent behavior will not be
shown as acceptable. If it is presented in a realistic manner, care
should be taken to present the natural repercussions of such actions.
Publishers should avoid excessive levels of violence, excessively
graphic depictions of violence, and excessive bloodshed or gore.
Publishers will not present detailed information instructing readers
how to engage in imitable violent actions."

"If it is dramatically appropriate for one character to demean another
because of his or her sex, ethnicity, religion, sexual preference,
political orientation, socioeconomic disadvantages should never assign
ultimate responsibility for these condictions to the character
themselves. Heroes should be role models and should reflect the
prevailing social attitudes."

I definitly agree. Yeah,  my favorite hero is Wolverine.

and Joker is also nice example how this works in RL. (remember begining of Arkham Asylum (not game!) and the girl?).
Seriously, old man/vampire sex in League of Extraordinary Gentlemen is also interesting, not even talking about V for Vendetta...

I kno rite? Don't forget Watchmen, lol. Plotwise, that is definably one of my favorites.