263 réponses à ce sujet

[Mordaedil]

Just a little note. While this is an RPG game, it's more predefined than most other games than Bioware usually make.



Yes, they've always assigned a "role" in the past, but that's not what I'm talking about. We're Grey Warden's, sure, but we're something else too: The Origins. We're roleplaying these specific characters from each family. We're certainly given more freedom than most games, heck, I'd argue more than any other Bioware has ever made. But we're still these individuals.



So saying it's an action "I wouldn't take" is kinda playing it wrong, you're not really playing the role you're given here. This is Bioware giving you guidelines and sort of cornering you, sure, but think of it as actual roleplaying, not what people do around a table rolling dice. You're placed in this role, this act, and carry it through in third person.



Stop thinking of your character as you. I think that'd help overcome your symptoms nicely. (Otherwise, you're very close to being a high-school shooter, which is very dangerous territory; you might not be able to control your actions if games affect you thusly)

[Majspuffen]

The game is dark. It's the first time since I was a child that I've actually been scared in a game. Wouldn't say it's depressing, but the choices you have to make are somewhat painful sometimes because you know it'll affect what will happen next. This game was worth the price, and I'll be willing to pay for more DLC. Kotor, Mass effect and now dragon age, these are games that sucks you in and makes you think. Love em

[Jersey75639]

Dark Trenches was definitely one of the creepiest sections of an rpg game I've seen, especially considering the game isn't one of those 'Silent Hill' type games that is designed primarily to be that way. (I know, the game is designed to be dark, but you know what I mean)

[Majspuffen]

Tassiaw wrote...
Hear hear!

The Dark Trenches scared the living bajeebus out of me. When Hespith started her chanting, I had to pause and walk around the house to calm myself down. I used to never be able to play scary games, indeed, the first one I was ever able to play for more than 5 minutes was BioShock, and later Left4Dead.

Haha, likewise. I managed to muster my courage to go through most things, but the corner before the Broodmother was.. well, took me a few hours before I actually managed to go through. It's ridiculous too, because I had read about the broodmother and seen the vid on her on the dragon age website. So I told myself "It's just a big fat monster with 10 breasts and a couple of tentacles, nothing to be scared of". It's just... Around the corner... *shudders*. Once I got by it was no trouble to do it again though. The first time is always the hardest.

Oh and that Branka, how I despise her for betraying her own people to the darkspawn... Saying that they were still use of her so that they could spawn darkspawn to test the traps in the area. She was the only character in the game I really felt like killing. Grrr! ... Luckily Oghren wasn't too affected by this.

[ToJKa1]

This is very emotionally enganing game indeed. I'm getting close to the ending, and i'm also getting the feeling it won't be a "happily ever after" ending..



On Bethesda boards some people brag how they slice up every people they kill, i never understood why someone would want to do something like that, until i saw the arl's son in the city elf origin story.

[Erik Mcvay]

honestly dude if it's too much then play kingdom hearts but i guess you wont like that becayse you HAVE to be the key blade master, also what do you want, do say screw you duncan i want to be a farmer? im too afraid to give my own life so the world can survive? you call morrigan selfish lol

[specter7237]

elikal71 wrote...

Wintermist wrote...

Rorschach from Watchmen, now there's a hero! By Duncan's Beard, I cried when he died, seriously.

I quote him merely for the sake of the idea of no compromises in your ethics. I disliked his morals tho. The means NEVER is justified by the end. Never ever. You cross that line to the Dark Side... forever will it dominate your destiny. So to speak. You can't be a "little evil" just as you can't be a little bit dead. My fav hero is Batman, mainly because he never ever kills. Also Captain America, because he is a positive character, someone to look up to as rolemodel of integrity. It is so great that he has no guns, and his only weapon is a shield, a defensive weapon. At least in the old comics, dunno how it is these days where everything is dark and amoralism is trendy aka "provocative".

Tales should inspire people to be good and to feel good, not drag them down further on the road of ethical nihilism.

This kind of thinking is not realistic, and alot of us play DAO for it's ethical realism.  What the Wardens do is necissary for the sake of maintaining peace and stability in the realms, and without them the blight could ravage all of Thedas.  Most of us are comfortable with the fact that life isnt perfect and believe adding realism to a story makes it engrossing.  Obviously this isn't your kind of game though.

[ToJKa1]

Eveyone dies eventualy anyway, why not make your (characters) life something for the history books.



That's how i view this game and Fallout 3 (with non-Broken Steel) ending, a hero that rises from obscurity, doing good deeds, and eventually sacrificing him/herself for the good of others. That's how legends are made



Or if i feel like it, an evil bastard that is nearly worse than the threath he/she is fighting, finally convincing someone else to make the necessary sacrifice, and disappears as mysteriously as appeared, or redeems him/herself by giving the sacrifice.



In the end it's a story about fictional characters in a fictional world, and what is best, you can replay the story of that character and make changes if you wish, or just to experience it again. After all, those characters never die, as long as we have computers (or consoles) and electricity

[Phayte3000]

elikal71 wrote...

Are they needed? No. That is a myth they created. Any well trained fighter can fight dawrkspawn, any dedicated person can form an order to unite the lands. The methods of the Warden are criminal, and again, like Rorschach said, there must be no compromise in justice, even in the face of Armageddon.

I trust you understand that only a Grey Warden can truly kill an Archdemon? It is explained near the end that the reason they have to do it is that, because of the taint inside of them, when they strike the killing blow on the Archdemon they take the spirit of it inside of them, where both the spirit and the Grey Warden are destroyed. Granted, there is the option of using Morrigan's ritual (fathering a child with the taint, killing the demon, and the spirit seaking out the unborn child like a beacon and taking possession of it), but that ritual is ancient and blood magic. So you need Grey Wardens to end Blights, not fight darkspawn per se.

The Grey Wardens serve a valuable purpose: they do what has to be done. Their doomed existence has one purpose and one purpose alone: to protect the world from the Blight. They exist outside of the traditional world, even moreso than your "usual" hero does. The Operative in the movie Serenity reminds me of the Grey Wardens. To take an except of dialogue between The Operative and Mal:

Operative:
I'm sorry. If your quarry goes to ground, leave no ground to go to. You should have taken my offer. Or did you think none of this was your fault?

Mal: I don't murder children.

Operative: I do. If I have to.

Mal: Why? Do you even know why they sent you?

Operative: It's not my place to ask. I believe in something greater than myself. A better world. A world without sin.

Mal: So me and mine gotta lay down and die... so you can live in your better world?

Operative: I'm not going to live there. There's no place for me there... any more than there is for you. Malcolm... I'm a monster. What I do is evil. I have no illusions about it, but it must be done.

That's how I see the Grey Wardens and that's how I've played through twice now. They have no place in the world they hope to defend or save. They are the anti-hero, even though they are the protagonist of the story.

So you have three options really: try and play as heroically/nobley as possible, accept the "do what must be done" concept behind the Grey Wardens, or simply don't play. But seeing as how the morality of the game has already effected you so much, you may not be able to let it go. In which case I would be more than willing to discuss it further. I love moral/philosophical discussions!

Modifié par Phayte3586, 12 novembre 2009 - 03:08 .

[RUDAL]

Hmm... I'll just say this. For all who thinks that game is too dark and too evil - then you better DO NOT play The Witcher

Modifié par RUDAL, 12 novembre 2009 - 03:34 .

[ToJKa1]

Nah, this is worse. Then again, i never completed the Witcher..

[Phayte3000]

RUDAL wrote...

Hmm... I'll just say this. For all who thinks that game is too dark and too evil - then you better DO NOT play The Witcher

The Witcher was an awesome game.

[vyvexthorne]

There are some choices that are in the grey area but at the same time I've found through lots of dialogue that there is a third choice.. It's usually not the obvious choices available but you have to exhaust the dialogue to get there. Sometimes just leaving the situation alone might actually feel better than completing it. Like if your choice seems to be to persuade somebody to do something or kill them.. You can actually just leave without doing either. Sometimes doing one quest before another gets you a third option in that next quest that wouldn't have been available if you hadn't done the first quest. There's lots of options in this game it's not just cut black and white and not everything is easily accessible... you just have to work at it.

[David Gaider]

Huh.



Well, I'll say this: you can't please everyone. You would think that needn't bear repeating, but some people seem to think not pleasing everyone is immoral. I find that a little odd, but so be it.



We've said from the beginning that the game was dark because it was about difficult choices. If they were easy choices it probably wouldn't work, would it? There is good in the world, but in such a terrible time you need to fight for it and sometimes work with what you have. Sometimes people disappoint. Sometimes everything doesn't work out nicely with a ribbon on it.



If you were looking for a breezy, escapist fantasy then you probably came to the wrong place. But to say that it's hopelessly bleak is, I think, an extremely romanticized view. Not that being a romantic is a bad thing, but I think we were pretty clear this is no fairy tale. In my opinion, some of the best tales of all time are tragedies -- and while I wouldn't say DA is tragic, necessarily, I would say that it's designed to provoke feelings other than warm fuzzies. And I think we've done that. Most of the responses I've seen from people, even the ones who were disturbed by the outcomes, have been very adult and thoughtful and still seem to recognize that the level of their emotional involvement was a sign of the quality of their experience and not to the detriment of the game.



I'll leave it at that. Some people are likely still going to be disappointed that the story or its tone wasn't exactly the way they would have preferred, and while that's too bad it can't be helped. Sorry to the OP that they found it too much. Perhaps our next story will be more to your liking.

[Hizuka]

I see someone just got into work this morning. ;-)



On the flipside of what the OP mentions, while I think this game is awesome, I'll admit to tearing up a little at my character's funeral while being happy at the same time. As a 39 year old man who's been a gamer for 30 years, this is probably the first time a computer game has affected me like this.



Bravo.

[Lughsan35]

David Gaider wrote...

Huh.

Well, I'll say this: you can't please everyone. You would think that needn't bear repeating, but some people seem to think not pleasing everyone is immoral. I find that a little odd, but so be it.

We've said from the beginning that the game was dark because it was about difficult choices. If they were easy choices it probably wouldn't work, would it? There is good in the world, but in such a terrible time you need to fight for it and sometimes work with what you have. Sometimes people disappoint. Sometimes everything doesn't work out nicely with a ribbon on it.

If you were looking for a breezy, escapist fantasy then you probably came to the wrong place. But to say that it's hopelessly bleak is, I think, an extremely romanticized view. Not that being a romantic is a bad thing, but I think we were pretty clear this is no fairy tale. In my opinion, some of the best tales of all time are tragedies -- and while I wouldn't say DA is tragic, necessarily, I would say that it's designed to provoke feelings other than warm fuzzies. And I think we've done that. Most of the responses I've seen from people, even the ones who were disturbed by the outcomes, have been very adult and thoughtful and still seem to recognize that the level of their emotional involvement was a sign of the quality of their experience and not to the detriment of the game.

I'll leave it at that. Some people are likely still going to be disappointed that the story or its tone wasn't exactly the way they would have preferred, and while that's too bad it can't be helped. Sorry to the OP that they found it too much. Perhaps our next story will be more to your liking.

This game has evoked more emotional responses in me than any game to date.  Kudos to you guys.

[Naltair]

I enjoyed the tough choices and the fact that we had/have tough decisions to make. I look forward to more.

[Celevra]

David Gaider wrote...

Huh.

Well, I'll say this: you can't please everyone. You would think that needn't bear repeating, but some people seem to think not pleasing everyone is immoral. I find that a little odd, but so be it.

We've said from the beginning that the game was dark because it was about difficult choices. If they were easy choices it probably wouldn't work, would it? There is good in the world, but in such a terrible time you need to fight for it and sometimes work with what you have. Sometimes people disappoint. Sometimes everything doesn't work out nicely with a ribbon on it.

If you were looking for a breezy, escapist fantasy then you probably came to the wrong place. But to say that it's hopelessly bleak is, I think, an extremely romanticized view. Not that being a romantic is a bad thing, but I think we were pretty clear this is no fairy tale. In my opinion, some of the best tales of all time are tragedies -- and while I wouldn't say DA is tragic, necessarily, I would say that it's designed to provoke feelings other than warm fuzzies. And I think we've done that. Most of the responses I've seen from people, even the ones who were disturbed by the outcomes, have been very adult and thoughtful and still seem to recognize that the level of their emotional involvement was a sign of the quality of their experience and not to the detriment of the game.

I'll leave it at that. Some people are likely still going to be disappointed that the story or its tone wasn't exactly the way they would have preferred, and while that's too bad it can't be helped. Sorry to the OP that they found it too much. Perhaps our next story will be more to your liking.

Epic response David.

However please dont fill the next story with warm fuzzies, to that guys liking.  DA:O and the two prequal books are epic stories, lets keep the comming stories on the same track.

[TanithAeyrs]

I have not read all 6 pages of this thread but I think the OP missed the point of dark, heroic fantasy, the dev's have said all along that the game will be full of hard choices. I have found many lighter and positively good moments in the game. My Dalish elf was very disturbed by the joining but she has embraced the mission of the Grey Wardens whole heartedly. She truly likes most of her companions and is struggling with her affection for Alistair in the context of being a Dalish elf. This is by far the best RPG I have played, the difficult choices and darker moments add a flavor that has been missing from most RPG's.

I try to role play my characters and I have had much more latitude in this game than in many previous games. There definitely are some very dark moments, however, that is part of good story telling. I think the writers have done a masterful job of of making me really think about my characters choices and the impact they will have.

I will confess I am a truly "evil- impared" player- I usually play a paladin, or other "good" character. I don't usually steal or loot containers in anything but dungeons. I have found DA:O to be very playable in this context- honor and goodness are not impossible in Ferelden (although my character is always broke).



Anyway, my 2 cents. Back to dying in a really hard battle (have to figure out a new strategy).

[LdyShayna]

TanithAeyrs wrote...
I will confess I am a truly "evil- impared" player- I usually play a paladin, or other "good" character. I don't usually steal or loot containers in anything but dungeons. I have found DA:O to be very playable in this context- honor and goodness are not impossible in Ferelden (although my character is always broke).

I generally agree.  Over all, I was really enjoying the game, despite the bad moments and tough choices.  I get attached to characters in good RPGs easily, and am (perhaps overly) sensitive.  Heck, I have known what the ending of the human noble origin would be for months, and I still cried.  There's only one choice that I can't seem to get past.  Since I've heard that I will eventually have to make it, I find I cannot enjoy playing the game anymore.  I guess this is my "Suck it up, pnrincess" moment if I want to get to the end.  Meh. 

[Palesblade]

Hizuka wrote...

I see someone just got into work this morning. ;-)

On the flipside of what the OP mentions, while I think this game is awesome, I'll admit to tearing up a little at my character's funeral while being happy at the same time. As a 39 year old man who's been a gamer for 30 years, this is probably the first time a computer game has affected me like this.

Bravo.

The game certainly surprised me with its emotional roller coaster ride.......I love it!