263 réponses à ce sujet

[crimsoncobra57]

Joy and happiness are not the only emotions that a human is capable of experiencing, and certainly not the only ones that can be provoked through literature.
Not all stories are meant to take you, hand-in-hand, giggling through the sunshine to ride off with the princess, and as it is, that's a very good thing.

And I think you are failing to see, or purposefully remaining ignorant to the crisis and morality in the plot. Grey Warden's are the only ones who can stop the blight, and thus the only ones who can stop the world from being consumed by darkness. That hardly means you are "100% a tool of duty", or that you are required to give up all personal happiness. I found an abundance of happiness throughout the game, and connected with the characters I felt closest to. The others, I may not have spent enough time with.. Such is life.
But I am curious how you felt, "betrayed, raped and left alone by every single character". Surely that is a stretch, to enhance the point you're trying to make. So many of those characters are there for you, and stand by you. Did you give them a chance?

I was deeply impacted by a lot of choices I had to make, and they stuck with me for a while. I may have regretted some later, but what's done is done.
There is light in the land of Ferelden, you just need to seek it out. You need to have the courage to fight for what you think is good in the world. Not every person you encounter will be cheery, or nice. You cannot expect them to be.

Also, complaining about being forced to be a Grey Warden is hardly fair. The plot is formed around you being a Grey Warden. Even in games that give you freedom, you can only give so much before losing the narrative flow. Every game keeps you on some sort of path, for the sake of an overarching plot. It's not possible to predict the outcome of every possible choice a person could make in a free world. Not on a budget, and a time-frame that most developers are given. You get what freedom you can, which is quite a lot in Dragon Age.

Modifié par crimsoncobra57, 12 novembre 2009 - 06:06 .

[Jazharah]

In contrast to the OP, I enjoy DA:O for the emotional involvement, which is an actual 'escape' for me instead of warm and fuzzy teletubbie-spore-sims-crap.

My compliments to David Gaider for his response. Please get even darker in ME2 and future DLC.

BioWare, since BG2 has been *THE* standard in the game industry when it comes to RPG's for me *because* they go off the beaten path; *because* they dare to touch on ethical standards and 'controversial' topics (if I'm correct, ME1 was the first mainstream game to introduce lesbian sexuality, DA:O would be the first mainstream game with homosexuality).

The thing is that such issues as gay sexuality and polygamy (hey, I can woo 3 companions without dire consequence other than a bit of a quarrel with my 'main lover') are actually non-issues for me in 'real life', and with BioWare being the only developer that actually touches on these subjects to my knowledge, they deserve more credit that they are already getting.



In conclusion: DA:O is a game that involves you emotionally, it jerks a couple of tears, gives you the chills, makes you laugh heartily and gives flutters in your belly in romantic situation. It's a complete experience in many, many ways. If that's too dark for you or 'immoral', go crawl back under the rock you came from.

[LdyShayna]

Jazharah wrote...

If that's too dark for you or 'immoral', go crawl back under the rock you came from.

If you liked David's response so much, I wouldn't think you would want to so utterly undermine it with a single sentence like this.  Ah, well. 

[David Gaider]

imported_beer wrote...
And since Bioware is the only gaming company whose games I play regularily, this means gaming for me as a hobby has officially ended.

Well, I would say to you as well that we're not likely to hit the same note with every story. If I write future romances, they're likely to be of a different flavor and end differently as well, simply because that's what I prefer to do. Maybe our next story will have happier outcomes for the romances, it's hard to say -- I simply reject the idea that it must be so. I fully accept, however, that not everyone is looking for the same thing in their entertainment and not everyone is going to be willing to come along for the ride. That, however, was never going to be the case.

[Jazharah]

LdyShayna wrote...

Jazharah wrote...

If that's too dark for you or 'immoral', go crawl back under the rock you came from.

If you liked David's response so much, I wouldn't think you would want to so utterly undermine it with a single sentence like this.  Ah, well. 

I see your point, and if I would be speaking with a BioWare tag under my name like David, I wouldn't use similar expressions. The benefit of being a player instead of a developer is that I can be personal and opinionated without risking my job or antagonizing the community as a whole with a comment that could be perceived as 'official'.
The worst that can happen is that somebody does not agree with my opinion, or just the strong expression of it, which I can respect in turn.
The question at this point is if this contributes to the initial conversation which was a strongly expressed opinion indirectly asking for other's opinions, which I gave. I'm unsure if a personal opinion of a personal opinion of a personal opinion is adding to the discussion as a whole.
That said, let me undermine myself once more: I could have expressed my opinion less aggressively. Thank you for pointing that out.

[madal434]

..so far only the mage origin story has given me hard emotional choices..to help or not 2 help...both choices froze my blood... great work...i dont think i need to repeat what others have been saying to the emotional cripple who started this thread..

Here is a quote I use when I play Multiplayer games that might be useful to u.

Good luck Have fun Die well (gl hf die well in shorthand)

[RosaAquafire]

Blah, I really hope all these people saying No! Entertainment should always be mindless escapism! don't end up affecting the tone of future BW games. I seriously thought that DA:O was the best benchmark of game story-telling as art I've ever seen, and even in that, it STILL had an easy happy lightside answer to a lot of dilemnas that irritated me.



I guess I can see (I GUESS) why people want their media to be soothing and happy, but it's so ... weak. Meaningless. I'm a lit student and the main thing that I've learned from all my years in study is that a story that makes you smile is entertainment, but a story that makes you THINK is art.



Choosing between art and entertainment ... there's really no contest for what stands the test of time and elevates work to a higher level, is there?

[Maria Caliban]

There was one section of the game where I felt the story really lived up to its dark fantasy potential, and that’s at the end of the Ozimmar quest line. It gave me a section that was pure horror and followed it up with what I found to be a very tricky moral choice.

To me 80% of the game was very much traditional fantasy. *Well done* traditional fantasy, but still very easy to play the righteous hero smiting an obvious evil.

I don’t know. There appear to be others who found the story dark and depressing, but I wish it were a bit harder to play the white knight. I wish the various romantic but impractical things I did had negative consequences instead of everything turning out fine in the end. It seems no matter what you do, people will support you and you’ll be hailed as the hero of Ferelden.

I'd prefer if DA were darker and being good was harder.

David Gaider wrote...

Maybe our next story will have happier outcomes for the romances...

You can get happy endings for all the romances but one, and, as I understand it, Morrigan never says that she's interested in staying with the PC together forever.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 12 novembre 2009 - 10:48 .

[Jersey75639]

Looking back over most of the responses I can see, to an extent, where both sides are coming from. Initially I just thought the OP was a whiny b*, and honestly I still do; but I can see where people like imported are coming from, too.



It should also be noted that not all soothing, happy stories are meaningless. Many of them are, it's true, but not all great literature is tragedy. You can experience the same personal growth and emotional involvement in a well done comedy as you can in a story such as DA:O. I've been deeply moved by movies and books that were overall light, happy stories as much I was by this game. The main factor is not a dark setting, or a light setting, but how the story is told and how deeply the writers make you understand the characters, which I feel was very well done in this story.



If all games were like Dragon Age, then sure, I don't think I could keep playing them, because every once in a while you need a pick-me-up, but I don't believe that having a game or a story now and then like this is by any means 'immoral.'



If you have never experienced loss, then you have a harder time appreciating what you still have. If you've never had anything, then you'd never feel loss as deeply. That's basically how I feel about it.

[Maria Caliban]

Jersey75639 wrote...

If you have never experienced loss, then you have a harder time appreciating what you still have.

I tend to disagree. I know people who've lived charmed existences and who deeply appreciate their loved ones and what life has given them. I've known people who've suffered loss and become very bitter in response.

A person's experiences shapes them, but how it does so is different from person to person.

[Jersey75639]

Not everyone responds to situations in the same way, true. I still believe the statement to be mostly true, though, at least for me personally, as I said. Its overly simplistic, but I don't really feel like it's wrong.

[Noxxio]

Wow, ALL. OF. YOU. GOT. TROLLED.

[Tankenminnet]

Even the write did! Holy crap!

[Lurid Jester]

Some of you folks take this game WAY too seriously?



"Dammit, I feel like being trapped in a position with no exit to have a life I decide."



That has to be the funniest thing I've read in a long long time. In fact, I'm almost certain the OP is trolling... that's the only explanation. Anything else just makes me giggle.

[VanDraegon]

I am extremely thankful to Bioware that they gave us an RPG that is in such a dark, adult orientated game.

[Kromzor]

Meh, its darker than most, but its still not that dark.



I'd call it realistic more than anything, though the whole gift system really diminishes that.



"Sorry I defiled the sacred ashes of your religion's most holy saint, here have a pretty flower. Feel better now? Good. Now lets go dry hump by the campfire in front of everyone."

[Dtelm]

When the back of a game begins...

"From the makers of mass effect comes the DARK Fantasy Epic"



And when the game webiste proclaims...

"...Comes an epic tale of violence, lust, and betrayal"



You can hardly complain for getting excatly what you were told you were going to get.

[Kromzor]

Noxxio wrote...

Wow, ALL. OF. YOU. GOT. TROLLED.

I dunno, I have actually met people like this IRL and other places on teh internets (politics/current affairs discussion boards)

The thing that does make it sound like a troll is when he talked about Z-whatever, the elf assassin... you don't meet him untill after you complete one of the major story arcs, but this guy claims to barely have gotten past the origin stories... so how does he really know anything about that character?

He could just being going through some emotional trauma in his life.  I remember when I was like 12 and my parents were getting divorced that I cried at the end of... Mario RPG.  I got attached to the characters and I was sad when they all left and the story was over.  Infact it was the shot of the shark king standing on a rock looking out at the sun setting into the ocean that did me in.

[Dragonsword18]

David Gaider wrote...

Huh.

Well, I'll say this: you can't please everyone. You would think that needn't bear repeating, but some people seem to think not pleasing everyone is immoral. I find that a little odd, but so be it.

We've said from the beginning that the game was dark because it was about difficult choices. If they were easy choices it probably wouldn't work, would it? There is good in the world, but in such a terrible time you need to fight for it and sometimes work with what you have. Sometimes people disappoint. Sometimes everything doesn't work out nicely with a ribbon on it.

If you were looking for a breezy, escapist fantasy then you probably came to the wrong place. But to say that it's hopelessly bleak is, I think, an extremely romanticized view. Not that being a romantic is a bad thing, but I think we were pretty clear this is no fairy tale. In my opinion, some of the best tales of all time are tragedies -- and while I wouldn't say DA is tragic, necessarily, I would say that it's designed to provoke feelings other than warm fuzzies. And I think we've done that. Most of the responses I've seen from people, even the ones who were disturbed by the outcomes, have been very adult and thoughtful and still seem to recognize that the level of their emotional involvement was a sign of the quality of their experience and not to the detriment of the game.

I'll leave it at that. Some people are likely still going to be disappointed that the story or its tone wasn't exactly the way they would have preferred, and while that's too bad it can't be helped. Sorry to the OP that they found it too much. Perhaps our next story will be more to your liking.

exactly...
it was told a way back before game was releas  that it will be a dark game with dificult morality...

i played many, many cRPG and i never, NEVER fell the power i fell here...
Most of games u cant choice like here. u disaproval and aproval is the most important thing in the game... thats why its so good. U try to making a friend with them... not like in other cRPG when someone ask to join ur pt and u say yes... then u are " best friend forever" without talking to that person...

I love what BioWare try to put here... and its done properly... i hope that if they will be ( i`m sure there will) a Dragon Age 2 or whatever will be called, will be the same like this...coz thats  is a powerful expierience

[tsd16]

elikal71 wrote...


On my own person they give me NO choice. I MUST be Warden, and I take that without knowing heck about it, only later it shows it has a huge price to pay. All about my character is forced on me from the very first moment. I am raped, essentially. Sheesh... sorry, but this really took me down in my mood. I feel seriously unhappy, and no game made that. I don't like that. Not at all.

its a story.  and really, from a high level (not to take away from the originality of the low level story of DA itself) its your typical fantasy epic,  dark powerful army invades lands, small group of heroes must undertake grueling quests to unite its peoples and defeat the evil.  Did you like lord of the rings?  Do you like warcraft? So its edgier big deal but essentially the same concept, its a story.  I dont get it with people saying it brings down their mood.

How is it any more dark than playing a WW2 shooter as a terrified unwilling draftee (see no choice there) forced to kill or be killed wading through blood on various grueling campaigns.  Its entertainment, geez, Ive never had my "mood" lowered due to the subject matter of a game, I play a game, the story is good I am entertained, where is the problem,.

Maybe im not a hardcore enough RPer and dont actually have emotional responses as if the in game situation is REALLY happening to me.  When i found out my characters life is basically crap, I thought man that sucks for him, but its a pretty cool plot twist and went on with my  life.

[Vinditater]

Don't mean to spit on your cake, but it's the same in real life. Either youre a corporate tool or you're homeless. You don't really have a choice. And this game has lots of positive things, I think youre just looking for all the bad things. And like Jinnth said, if you get sad over a video game, take a look at other countries around the world. If that doesn't brighten your day, you probably should get back to writing in your diary as you listen to My Chemical Romance.

[Azeo]

kaispan wrote...

I kind of had the same problem, but it wasn't til closer to the end, after Landsmeet. I admit I felt physically ill, had to stop playing... and couldn't fall asleep. 
Then I didn't want to finish but ended up coming back to try new characters.

Spare yourself. I tried this too and at first it may seem cheerful but they all end up equally sad. You'll just get frustrated again. Go find a happy game you can enjoy playing or do something else. Mass Effect is not as dark.

[wormslayer]

David Gaider wrote...

Perhaps our next story will be more to your liking.

please don't nerf the "darkness" for the next story!

[Azeo]

David Gaider wrote...

imported_beer wrote...
And since Bioware is the only gaming company whose games I play regularily, this means gaming for me as a hobby has officially ended.

Well, I would say to you as well that we're not likely to hit the same note with every story. If I write future romances, they're likely to be of a different flavor and end differently as well, simply because that's what I prefer to do. Maybe our next story will have happier outcomes for the romances, it's hard to say -- I simply reject the idea that it must be so. I fully accept, however, that not everyone is looking for the same thing in their entertainment and not everyone is going to be willing to come along for the ride. That, however, was never going to be the case.

Allowing those who seek the happy endings to have them as well will just expand the amount of people who enjoy your game and increase future sales. No harm in that.

Modifié par Azeo, 13 novembre 2009 - 03:42 .

[Azeo]

Just make the Star Wars MMO bright and cheery and everyone will be happy. (joke)

Modifié par Azeo, 13 novembre 2009 - 03:41 .