263 réponses à ce sujet

[Narzon]

So... you are upset because... you have the choice to be darker?

That's the stupidest thing I've heard this week.



Let me ask you. If someone on the street asks you for some change, do you rejoice knowing you can give him money?

Or do you start screaming and crying because POTENTIALLY you could torture him and kill him painfully?

Life has choices, you don't have to take them.



Likewise, Bioware creates a fantasy world, and gives you several choices, most of them extremes of the various attitudes your character can take on. If you want to be a goody-goody, then do so. Save the Arl's kid, save the werewolves from the curse, whatever you want, honestly. But to be upset because the game doesn't FORCE you to? That's not a roleplaying game. That's a hollywood movie.

I don't think you can rightfully say what you think about RPGs because what you are describing is not an RPG.





Then again I don't know why I bother. You've proven yourself much more immature than anyone else on this board. Considering the thousands of people posting here about how attached they were to this game, and considering this game's high rankings. and considering Bioware's history of RPG excellency, I fail to see where you think you can come off and say we have no "taste".



No offence, but maybe you should actually read the 17+ rating on the box.

[SunKilMoon]

Ninjaphrog wrote...

Hizuka wrote...

Ah, yes, when you can no longer defend your stance, resort to personal attacks. Well done - I stand in awe at your amazing skills in debate.

And I have no trouble defending my ....stance? But if you don't like my opinion? Go hang with the other ****faces.

Wow...you've got some serious issues 
It sounds to me like you're 'darker' and 'more gruesome' than all the worst choices in DA:O

Being in a relationship with you must be something like being controlled by a Desire Demon

[Fudzie]

I, for one, was upset at the fact I had no option to experience a Desire Demon sequence.



Sloth is so... boring. And he sucks at what he does.

[Narzon]

I believe you can, not that they show too much.

You enter the fade yourself to save the Arl's son, and if you make a deal, you can be rewarded with "pleasure"

[Jersey75639]

The demon possessing the kid at Redcliffe is a desire demon.



I was kind of surprised that you never ran into any major pride demons besides the mage origin though, those being the highest up in the hierarchy and everything.

[Fudzie]

I take that back. Forsooth, I am off for Desire booty.

[Obadiah]

elikal71 wrote...
It really hit me hard, I must admit, and its a point where I must say that my path with Bioware games is ending.

I feel the same way about dark stories. If I'd have known that NWN2 OC was going to end the way it did I would have been bummed as heck. I'm bummed now playing this, but I think I'll get over it. You will too, sir.

After all, it's still a good yarn.

(Edit) Had the wrong poster's name in the quote. Sorry 'bout that.

Modifié par Obadiah, 13 novembre 2009 - 01:12 .

[Krenmu]

Umm..I don't recall ever typing that..I would never say that my path with Bioware games is ending..I love their games in fact..always have.

[Jersey75639]

Probably just cut a quote short and left the wrong name in, it happens.

[Azeo]

Hizuka wrote...

You know, the current contenders for Best RPG of All Time are, to most people, Planescape: Torment and Fallout. (I like DAO more than I did fallout and nearly as much as I did PS:T.) Both of those games allowed you to play a saint, a fiend, or anything in between. I wonder how the OP and my venemous opponent from above would feel about those two games.

And Jersey, I'm not sure what she means in the last one, either.  I think she was getting a bit incoherent there at the end.

Fallout & Fallout 2 remain the best RPG's of all time in my book. The thing that was so great about those games wasn't just the choices but the fact no one could force you to do something you didn't want if you were good enough at the game. This game is more linear so it lacks that open element, for example being forced into exile in the dwarf noble origin. If this was Fallout you would have had the choice to fight the people who were threatening to exile you, seduce Bhelens girlfriend and get her to kill him in his sleep, or set up a drug trade with the assembly getting them so addicted that they had no choice but to vote for you in order to keep getting their drug fix. This game really too me felt too linear and with no real choices, so that was where it fell short. Not the lack of happiness, but the lack of real control. I understand why they did it though, think of the amount of effort it would take to make the game respond realistically to all those other choices. Still, I think more control could have been giving to the player without changing the setting or story. There are a few ways in paticular I can think of. I wish Bioware would let me write for them  

[Maria Caliban]

Jersey75639 wrote...

The demon possessing the kid at Redcliffe is a desire demon.

I was kind of surprised that you never ran into any major pride demons besides the mage origin though, those being the highest up in the hierarchy and everything.

There's one in the Deep Roads.

[Jersey75639]

ty, I'll keep a lookout for it next time I'm playing through.



Does it have to do with the bags you find with body parts in them? (Speaking of dark..)

[Krenmu]

lol Body parts in bags isn't dark at all...

[Hizuka]

Azeo wrote...

Hizuka wrote...

You know, the current contenders for Best RPG of All Time are, to most people, Planescape: Torment and Fallout. (I like DAO more than I did fallout and nearly as much as I did PS:T.) Both of those games allowed you to play a saint, a fiend, or anything in between. I wonder how the OP and my venemous opponent from above would feel about those two games.

And Jersey, I'm not sure what she means in the last one, either.  I think she was getting a bit incoherent there at the end.

Fallout & Fallout 2 remain the best RPG's of all time in my book. The thing that was so great about those games wasn't just the choices but the fact no one could force you to do something you didn't want if you were good enough at the game. This game is more linear so it lacks that open element, for example being forced into exile in the dwarf noble origin. If this was Fallout you would have had the choice to fight the people who were threatening to exile you, seduce Bhelens girlfriend and get her to kill him in his sleep, or set up a drug trade with the assembly getting them so addicted that they had no choice but to vote for you in order to keep getting their drug fix. This game really too me felt too linear and with no real choices, so that was where it fell short. Not the lack of happiness, but the lack of real control. I understand why they did it though, think of the amount of effort it would take to make the game respond realistically to all those other choices. Still, I think more control could have been giving to the player without changing the setting or story. There are a few ways in paticular I can think of. I wish Bioware would let me write for them  

They probably have to limit options due to the complexity of the game vs the complexity of programming Fallout.  The scripting has got to be a LOT more complex.

As to letting you write for them, go apply.  I had a friend on an NWN PW i played on for 8 months or so who turned out to work at Bioware in QA.  It seems QA is the entry point, and one of the requirements of his application process was to submit an NWN module he had created.  You should probably also either be Canadian or be able to move to and work in Canada immediately.

[Hizuka]

Jersey75639 wrote...

ty, I'll keep a lookout for it next time I'm playing through.

Does it have to do with the bags you find with body parts in them? (Speaking of dark..)

I believe it does, actually.

[Zenthar Aseth]

Ninjaphrog wrote...

Hizuka wrote...

Ninjaphrog wrote...

I completely agree with every single word, and this will most deffinately be my first and last Bioware game. Their idea of fun is my idea of sick and gruesome. Sure it's pixels and bytes and a story written by people who need some bright lights in their life, but honestly, it really does sound like some fanatic religious bastard decided to write a more interresting view on forcefully making people do what they really do not want to do, and brainwashing them into thinking it's the right thing to do...Greater good my freaking butthole.

So freeing a child from demonic possession is sick and gruesome?
So destroying an item that uses living souls to create fighting machines is sick and gruesome?
So freeing a people from a 400 year-old curse is sick and gruesome?
So saving humans, elves, and dwarves from extermination is sick and gruesome?



Hello Kitty Online is over thataway.

Or you can kill the child, or have his mother do it...yes...it is
Or giving it to an obsessive maniac...yes..it is
But the only way is to kill a man...yes...it is
By forcing people with families from their homes cause 1 man has the ability to do so? Yes...it ****ing is.



I simply wont point you anywhere cause your sick ass doesnt belong anywhere.

Real life will be extremely hard for you. How can ANYONE get "sick" over a video game?

Modifié par Zenthar Aseth, 13 novembre 2009 - 05:30 .

[Maria Caliban]

Zenthar Aseth wrote...

Real life will be extremely hard for you. How can ANYONE get "sick" over a video game?

I've watched movies (The Cell) that made me feel ill. (The scene where the man's intestine is slowly pulled out of him made me stop the player)

I've raved about the end of the Orzimmar questline, but it could have easily crossed a line if the visuals had been more graphic. Silent Hill 2 is one of the more frightening games I've played and I definately got chills/raising heart at times.

If a video game can make you happy, sad, melancholy, fearful, curious, or evoke a sense of wonder, why can't they make you sick?

[Jersey75639]

Though it's probably worth saying that I don't believe that 'sick' in that context meant a physical feeling sort of thing.

[rilzic]

To the Op



I understand your position. Main from reading fantasy books and there swing toward dark and gritty content. Personally I like it, a scenario where things aren't perfect, where it isn't always just good vs. evil, where the good guys actually take some hits and when the victory over evil might seed evil in your own side makes it more believable, helping to make a “game” more of a story. Something I can relate to in my own life.



I respect that there is an audience out there for the good farmboy/nobles son who's ignorant to the world at large, who goes on to save the world from a dark lord. While along the way he meets the girl of his dreams, who also happens to be just as pure of heart. Not everyone wants to read or play a King Aurthur story.



This is a 18+ game, which attempts to tell an adult story. I don't believe that was ever in question.



I don't know why you want this game to be a fairy tale but have you ever heard of a Greek tragedy, and more importantly what a tragedy is in general. It's a form of art as far as I am concerned.



As to why you can or can not be a grey warden, well a company can only fit so much into their budget/timeline. This is the story they wanted to tell, I respect them for it and I enjoyed it. In fact it brought me much to close to tears more times then my manly demeanor likes to admit. (just kidding i'm a cry baby.)

[Xenoseroster]

You know I really haven't thought of DA as being that dark.  Seems rather lighthearted overall to me.  Are there options for dark, evil, depressing happenings that you could chose?  Sure.  Do you have to take them?  No.  Are you punished for not taking them?  Quite the opposite.  And even if you chose to do them, there's a fun factor in the "I'm a nucking futs Mr Evil man, look out!" outlook.

But really, if you want dark, try the Warhammer universes, especially 40k.  There's some bleak hopelessness for you.  Billions of billions of people across millions of worlds, basically living in a somewhat high-tech dark ages, complete with intolerant clergy and corrupt nobility, where the best any given individual human can hope for is to die to preserve humanity and not get eviscerated by any number of hostile alien forces without fighting back.  I'd pick that as dark over "Oh we killed the blight, everyone back to your normal lives." 

The only notable exception in DA IMO is the dwarves.  Rigid, injust societal structure? Check.  Hopeless battle for survival? Check.  Heartless, scheming, honorless nobles?  Check.  Which is why I chose to preserve the Anvil of the Void.  Sure if they're drafting casteless to go into golem-dom it's immoral, but if the warrior caste types are volunteering, the dwarven people could really use a hand in the darkspawn fight, not to mention me as a grey warden.  Even if Branka is totally unhinged.

Modifié par Xenoseroster, 13 novembre 2009 - 05:58 .

[Kromzor]

Ninjaphrog wrote...

Hizuka wrote...

Ninjaphrog wrote...

I completely agree with every single word, and this will most deffinately be my first and last Bioware game. Their idea of fun is my idea of sick and gruesome. Sure it's pixels and bytes and a story written by people who need some bright lights in their life, but honestly, it really does sound like some fanatic religious bastard decided to write a more interresting view on forcefully making people do what they really do not want to do, and brainwashing them into thinking it's the right thing to do...Greater good my freaking butthole.

So freeing a child from demonic possession is sick and gruesome?
So destroying an item that uses living souls to create fighting machines is sick and gruesome?
So freeing a people from a 400 year-old curse is sick and gruesome?
So saving humans, elves, and dwarves from extermination is sick and gruesome?



Hello Kitty Online is over thataway.

Or you can kill the child, or have his mother do it...yes...it is
Or giving it to an obsessive maniac...yes..it is
But the only way is to kill a man...yes...it is
By forcing people with families from their homes cause 1 man has the ability to do so? Yes...it ****ing is.



I simply wont point you anywhere cause your sick ass doesnt belong anywhere.

Yeah, you CAN do those things OR you CAN choose NOT to do them.

So I don't see the logic behind the arguement. 

You can play a mostly goody-two-shoes white knight, or you can be mostly an evil bastard, or something in the middle.

Part of the problem may be that you're messing up certian dialouge choices in the game.  Take the possed kid in Redcliffe for example.  There is a way you can do it so that nobody dies, but judging by the forums a lot of people miss it.

And for a lot of the side quests if your persuasion is high enough you can talk people into or out of things instead of being forced to fight them and likely kill them.  It comes up many times in main quest lines as well.  This knowledge should be pretty standard for anyone thats played a lot of SP RGPs that use similar stats/skills.

[Ellzedd]

This may be harsh but there was fair warning as to the nature of the content given to you before you decided to play it.

This, for me, is no different to those that went to see the south park movie at the cinema, then got up mid-way, left and complained about how offended they were by the content.

I actually saw a brighter side to the whole thing (OMG, who knew?).

I mean, the dwarves pretty much look down on "surface dwellers" and mock their "blights" because they have been at war with the darkspawn for yonks.

"your blight is my everyday" isn't that a rough quote from the legion?

And yet, they unite with elves and men alike. Some of them have never even seen the sky, they actually believe that you fall up into it!

There are friendships (alistair in particular, friendship bonds with him are a real laugh).

Did you know he became a templar for the fashion? He hides his armour under his pillow at night and occasionally gives it a stroke.

There's the romance. Morrigan really doesn't care what becomes of the two of you sleeping together - something more or not - Yet she finds herself inexplainably jealous if/when you sleep with Leliana.

Alistair and wynne / Morrigan together in party are funny as hell. The humour in that is just top notch. Like when Alistair asks Morrigan about her mother and gets slated because he'd find moss growing on a stone "more interesting" or when he asks Wynne to patch up his tunic and tries to guilt her by saying something along the lines of "heyy, you wouldn't want me to have to fight the blight in a tunic that has holes in it would you? I might catch a cold" in his kiddy-voice.

I also love how you can watch Morrigan become socially human piece by piece. The friendship you can build up with her is truly a heart-warming thing.

And if you play a PC that fight's for an alternative to death every step of the way.. Well, thats sort of inspiring.

I mean sure, there's a cutscene where some dude drinks spawn blood and dies so horrifyingly badly that the next guy wimps-out and gets murdred by Duncan.. but who cares, the guy was a douche anyway

Part of the problem may be that you're messing up certian dialouge choices in the game. Take the possed kid in Redcliffe for example. There is a way you can do it so that nobody dies, but judging by the forums a lot of people miss it.

You have to have completed the "stone circle" questline beforehand, that way you can call on a favour owed to you by the mage circle.

Modifié par Ellzedd, 13 novembre 2009 - 10:06 .

[ToJKa1]

It was pretty clear from the beginning Ser Jory's story wouldn't have a happy ending..

Really the only thing that bothers me is that the Joining IS a delayed death sentence (except for Daveth, lucky SOB), without it being mentioned beforehand. But that also makes choosing to sacrifice oneself in the end the easy choice, end the blight, die, and be remembered as a hero. Those who remain have thougher job: get new recruits and watch out for the next Blight, all the while knowing that one day the taint will kill them.

Just a note, i haven't seen the ending yet, i've just purposely spoiled it partially for me, so who knows, i might yet be pleasantly surprised. Also, that loading screen text "Those who survive the taint eventually become ghouls" spoiled it during the Origin story, funny that it's mentioned there before in anywhere in game (unless i missed a Codex entry).

Modifié par ToJKa1, 13 novembre 2009 - 10:18 .

[Zenthar Aseth]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Zenthar Aseth wrote...

Real life will be extremely hard for you. How can ANYONE get "sick" over a video game?

I've watched movies (The Cell) that made me feel ill. (The scene where the man's intestine is slowly pulled out of him made me stop the player)

I've raved about the end of the Orzimmar questline, but it could have easily crossed a line if the visuals had been more graphic. Silent Hill 2 is one of the more frightening games I've played and I definately got chills/raising heart at times.

If a video game can make you happy, sad, melancholy, fearful, curious, or evoke a sense of wonder, why can't they make you sick?

I don't know about you, but they make me happy/sad/melancholy because I LET THEM. Making me sick? No way, Jose. I know it's just a video game.. and I see no reason to feel "sick".

[Bedlam66]

I can't wrap my head around that the fact that People are getting so worked up over a GAME. I mean with some of the posts I've read it's no wonder that we have to put up with the crappy ESRB all the time over content. IT'S A GAME for gods sake. I mean I'm sure that most of the people making these posts are people who've played RPG's before all played those games where"heroes set out to save the world from big bad monsters" and there's never really any choice to what you do in that prescripted environment, but really? Playing a GAME makes you want to really Vomit? I just don't understand some people.