40 réponses à ce sujet

[Thrar]

Back on the original topic: Try an F/T multi or dual. It looks like you've never played with a backstabber, and the unmodded NPCs available don't offer a good one either. Assassins are nice, but F/Ts have a much better chance to hit and a far better fighting ability after the initial blow. The multi has roughly the same amount of thief ability points (start with traps/locks if you have no other thief) while the dual has far more.

I once played a game with an F/T multi and Aerie as the only NPC. It's a highly efficient team, with just two characters covering all four general classes, and each of them benefits greatly from synergies between the two classes they have. Between the two of them, XP is plentiful and they will level fast, allowing Aerie to get high-level mage spells and turn undead to blow up almost everything, while the PC gets enough thief points to quickly do all he needs to do, with both fighter and thief HLAs while still in chapter 2.



I took Imoen along after spellhold in that game, but she was mostly dead weight. If you go to spellhold early, you might get her early enough to compete in levels, but having two high-level mages in a party of 3 is really overkill.

[HoonDing]

Seagloom wrote...

The thing is 99.9% of mages shouldn't have them since they were invented by the Simbul. It's unlikely she would share them with anyone except maybe a few of her sisters or Elminster.

I know she invented her own "the Simbul's spell trigger" that allowed 4 spells to be sequenced, instead of 3.

Thrar wrote...

I once played a game with an F/T multi and
Aerie as the only NPC. It's a highly efficient team, with just two
characters covering all four general classes, and each of them benefits
greatly from synergies between the two classes they have. Between the
two of them, XP is plentiful and they will level fast, allowing Aerie to
get high-level mage spells and turn undead to blow up almost
everything, while the PC gets enough thief points to quickly do all he
needs to do, with both fighter and thief HLAs while still in chapter
2.

Good idea, I might try this myself. I've never romanced Aerie before anyway, and other party members always pick on her too much so they can stay at home.

Modifié par virumor, 03 septembre 2010 - 09:08 .

[Chebby]

Virumor, ignorance is bliss. If I linked you a video of somebody crying for hours on end, you wouldn't *need* to go through that romance.

It was so painful to go through that I actually decided to gib her for no reason and do something else.

[wise grimwald]

The Aerie romance isn't that bad.

My problem with it was that when I was playing a very moral and upright paladin, she jumped into bed with me without so much as a "by your leave!" I was trying to play the male equivalent of Saerileth at the time, so being raped by a little thing like her was certainly embarassing!


Having Korgan in the party as well as her can be quite amusing, particularly her reaction when he threatens to spank her bottom!

Modifié par wise grimwald, 03 septembre 2010 - 10:20 .

[Seagloom]

virumor wrote...

I know she invented her own "the Simbul's spell trigger" that allowed 4 spells to be sequenced, instead of 3.

The thing is, I can't find any other instance of spell trigger or sequencer without her name attached to it. They did later do away with associating it with her in 3e's Spell Compendium, but that's eh... several years too late for Baldur's Gate 2.

-----

Aerie's was the first romance I completed. I thought it was okay. It was sweet and cute, but rather stereotypical. I must admit I *did* like the happy ending her and my elf warrior got, and there were some funny conversations in Shadows of Amn. Aerie also has a nice theme. It just lacked the quandaries of what I saw of Jaheira's romance, or the challenge in wooing Viconia. I had to figure out Viconia and Anomen's quirks to avoid angering them. Aerie's was like a "romance for beginners." Very predictable, but sweet if you like that fantasy trope.

[Thrar]

Said duo run was the only time I played the Aerie romance, I thought it was interesting in its own way, finding out more about Aerie and her background. Also, with the relatively little interaction a duo provides, having a romance going on is nice I think.

[amanasleep]

Seagloom wrote...

I think druids could have been better off in comparison to mages and clerics if the latter two didn't make off like bandits. They both get too many unique spells compared to druids and that hurts. Take the sequencer and trigger spells for example: I love these spells. Any mage player probably does.

Everybody knows that triggers, etc. make mages very powerful, but the point of departure for the relative power of Druids should never be mages but only clerics.  In that respect the only problems with them are the lack of variety in Spell levels 1-3 and the xp gap between D14 and D15.

The first issue can be solved by playing an Avenger, full stop, but is not really an issue even if you don't.  The second is also not really so much of an issue in power levels, because insects, fire elementals, ironskins, and Nature's Beauty are collectively better than the rest of the Cleric spell list, and Druids get access to all of these much earlier than Clerics get their best and highest level spells.

Once you get to ToB, Druids are if anything even more powerful than Clerics, because they start right off with 6 level 7 slots, which allows them to abuse the very powerful Quest Spells they have access to.  In addition, Druid level progression above D15 is very quick for the next 8 levels, allowing them to load up on the best HLA's much faster than a Cleric can.  Finally, Druid have great variety in one area that Clerics severely lack--weapons!  The ability to use daggers, darts, spears and scimitars allows Druids many strategies not open to Clerics, like gaining 6 APR by dual wielding Belm under Improved Haste, or getting solid ranged disabling throughout the entire game via darts of stunning/wounding, or incredible early damage dealing using Impaler.

Honestly, you could ask that Druids be more interesting, but they are plenty powerful if played right, even vanilla Druids are.

Modifié par amanasleep, 03 septembre 2010 - 06:25 .

[Seagloom]

I compare them to clerics and mages because they are spellcasting classes. The difference is in the nature of spells and roles in the party. Clerics and druids lack the raw offensive magic mages have but make up for it by being able to wade into melee from early levels either because of equipment or abilities. I have played a druid through Shadows of Amn twice. Once, a plain kitless druid and another time an Avenger imported from Baldur's Gate. The way I did plat felt very passive compared to a cleric.

As a cleric of Lathander I could buff, and go right into melee knocking heads. I could make undead explode or flee in terror, which made vampire nests and shadows trivial encounters past the early stages of Chapter 2. My cleric also had more unique spells that were consistently useful. Holy Smite always had an impact. Slay Living is overpowered at the point you get it, and Harm is much more effective with cleric buffs to THAC0.

I also thought cleric equipment selection was plain better. The Improved Mace of Disruption remains viable until you get the Runehammer. Crom Faeyr, Storm Star, and the Flail of Ages are no slouches either. It was nice to be able to stand in the middle of my own Firestorm without needing to expend slots on protection magic since I could equip full armor.

That doesn't mean I found druids weak. Just not as good as cleric and nowhere near mages. As a druid, I agree darts were awesome. Darts were actually what got me through Baldur's Gate since the druid spell list was seriously lacking there. Insect Plague and Creeping Doom are amongst the best spells in the game. Fire Elementals are insanely strong early on. I remember getting a high HD elemental and letting it solo the Pebblecrusher encounter since none of them could harm it. Iron Skins is lovely and more than makes up for the loss in AC compared to clerics. As an Avenger it just gets better with sword spider form and a slew of handy mage spells. It's also nice how equipped item properties (other than weapons) carried over into spider form.

Yet with all that, I found my druid played very passively. Sort of like a low to mid level mage without as much offensive punch. You don't get the good spears until late into the game. Impaler is where... the Sahuagin city? Belm loses a lot of appeal as a main hand weapon when things start becoming immune to it left and right. I imagine dual-wielding makes up for that, but single-classed druid THAC0 hurts in chapter 2 and plateus for a big part of SoA. Most of their best spells are too situational. The exception is Nature's Beauty since blindness is a great status effect to inflict, and summoning elemental princes at will is also handy. I think later on, once you get into Throne of Bhaal, I agree druids are badass and in ways superior to clerics.

However, many of their best abilities are too situational, and the amount of micromanagement required to fully utilize them is considerable for what you get in return. I personally don't mind since I play without AI on and micromanage my entire party. I think it's telling that with a mage or cleric I barely need to stay on top of them to get very nasty results; whereas with a druid I need to time my Lightning Bolts just right to bounce them, know who to poison as a spider, when to shift and unshift, and never feel like my character dominates in melee even with the two elemental shapes. I love druids as a class, but honestly compared to their Icewind Dale or 3e counterparts in NWN1&2 they just feel shortchanged through most of the game. When their big power jump comes in epic levels it's not impressive enough to wow me even though much of it is nice. Fighter/Druids are a whole other bag though. That class combination is outstanding.

All that said, I'm no build expert. I go with what I find fun. My opinions are those of a casual player who doesn't solo or do no reload challenges. Who just picks up the game every year or so for another run through to soak in the characters and stories. I'm no authority compared to most of the mainstays of this board who probably know every bit of BG2 by memory. So if I'm wrong, I'm wrong and I guess that's all there is to it.

Modifié par Seagloom, 03 septembre 2010 - 07:33 .

[HoonDing]

Aren't druids better using quarterstaffs from the very beginning? I always had trouble finding decent scimitars beyond Spectral blade, and there's only two decent clubs, but there's no lack of really great quarterstaffs (staff of fire/air, staff of woodlands, staff of the ram).

Anyway, does anyone have information about a monk's special abilities? When I fight Balthazar, he always uses this insane special abilities I never heard of before (Solar Stance, wtf?). Are these unique to only Balthazar?

Modifié par virumor, 03 septembre 2010 - 07:41 .

[Seagloom]

Yeah, those are unique to Balthazar in the vanilla game. There are monk mods out there though.

[bloodanddarknessfillmysoul]

Oversight looks to restore HLAs akin to Balthazar's abilities.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Refinements does something similar.

[Flamedance]

Amazon. Other than, there are - far as i know - no legal downloads available.

[HoonDing]

Okay, I've started a playthrough with a Fighter/mage/thief and Aerie.



My question is, since the Elven lass is quite frail in the beginning (to say the least) and I fear sooner or later she'll come out at the wrong end of an enemy spell, does a mod exist that allows the romances to continue even if the romance interest bites the dust?

[Humanoid_Taifun]

The romance is not killed along with the signficant other. Only if the spell takes her out of your party (Imprisonment, Petrification) or if you wait for too long before ressurecting them will they not like you anymore.

Modifié par Humanoid_Taifun, 08 septembre 2010 - 10:57 .