155 réponses à ce sujet

[shnizzler93]

I hate to be nit-picky, but I've almost never been able to understand time in videogames.



Dragon Age for example. I know it's supposed to take over a few years (at least, that's what I remember hearing), but to me, it never felt like years, or even months really. Also, Assassin's Creed 2. I am currently doing my first playthrough (on console), and after one assassination, the game jumps ahead two years, but again, it did not at all feel like two years. There are several other games like that, and while I probably played nearly as many as any of you, the game that made me understand the timeline the best was The World Ends With You.

[Meltemph]

I would assume because time is so subjective and relative? Probably why people can be doing the exact same thing and one person cant believe where the day has gone and the other cant believe how long the day has taken.

Modifié par Meltemph, 02 septembre 2010 - 01:35 .

[addiction21]

Meltemph wrote...
It is very puzzling how many people on this site in particular, are perfectly fine with the fundamental changes Witcher is doing(the supposed fans anywho), yet DA2, the mention of any changes is blasphemy and must be killed with fire.

I have trolled (FYI it had nothing incommon with a big green monster living under a bridge but a fishing technique)the internet fo longer then many around here have been alive and I can all but assure you they have the same fits on Witcher forums. That or they act exactly like the same "fanboys" they like to put down.
I have been around the the BioWare forums for too long and those that are the loudest about every horrible thing BioWare is doing have been saying it for years. Every new thing in the pipline is a betrayal, yet they buy it, they hold it up as a great example of how things should be done, and then continue their "constructive critisim" about the new thing coming down the line.

Internet hypocrisy at its finest.

Meltemph wrote...

I would assume because time is so subjective and relative? Probably why people can be doing the exact same thing and one person cant believe where the day has gone and the other cant believe how long the day has taken.

Something like this.
Such movement thru time is something hard to portray. Be it movies, games or book because we ourselves are not moving thru it at the same pace as the story we are looking at.

[AtreiyaN7]

I wouldn't worry about the hypothetical linearity. if we're jumping around to different periods of time, who says that we'll be doing it in a strictly linear fashion? Maybe Varric's story will jump ahead two years and then go back five years based on, err, whatshername's (the woman talking to Varric) questions? We may not be going in a temporally straight line from years 1-10.

Yes, sorry, I can't remember the Chantry cleric's/priest's name. I stayed up late.  Hmm, this might be a good reason to invest in one of those fear-powered coffee makers - is there one that can automatically make me an iced coffee with mint, whipped cream & chocolate shavings? That would be so awesome.

[Malanek]

Without having read much of this thread, I don't think framed narrative means the game has to be linear. Completely depends on how, and when, they launch the cutscenes. Using Origins as an example as CanadianDave did...



Player completes Lothering and goes to Briciallian forest. AT that point the framed narrative launches explaining the cosequences of how many peasants later fell to the darkspawn horde before very briefly dropping vague hints about what you would stumble on next by discussing the lust for immortality and the nature of beasts.

[Dr. wonderful]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

I wouldn't worry about the hypothetical linearity. if we're jumping around to different periods of time, who says that we'll be doing it in a strictly linear fashion? Maybe Varric's story will jump ahead two years and then go back five years based on, err, whatshername's (the woman talking to Varric) questions? We may not be going in a temporally straight line from years 1-10.

Yes, sorry, I can't remember the Chantry cleric's/priest's name. I stayed up late.  Hmm, this might be a good reason to invest in one of those fear-powered coffee makers - is there one that can automatically make me an iced coffee with mint, whipped cream & chocolate shavings? That would be so awesome.

Cassandra.

That is her name.

Modifié par Dr. wonderful, 02 septembre 2010 - 01:50 .

[Dave of Canada]

filaminstrel wrote...

The FF games are pretty much all linear in the main story. But I still enjoyed them.

I loved Final Fantasy as well but not for multiple playthroughs.

[highcastle]

People say linear like it's a bad thing. Origins was fairly linear, too, you know. Sure you can pick which order to pursue the treaties in, but the game overall had a set progression to it. You couldn't skip ahead to the landsmeet, for instance. Linearity in games usually makes for stronger stories. Look at Oblivion and Fallout 3 for comparison. Both were more open world games, and both had main quests that were generally ignorable and skippable in large parts. The story ended up less important than the game world. That's fine if that's what you want, but I come to BioWare for a good story. And that generally means keeping things on a fairly set path. There might be some flexibility in when you complete certain quests, but there will likely be a set beginning, middle, and end.

[obnoxiousgas]

highcastle wrote...

People say linear like it's a bad thing. Origins was fairly linear, too, you know. Sure you can pick which order to pursue the treaties in, but the game overall had a set progression to it. You couldn't skip ahead to the landsmeet, for instance. Linearity in games usually makes for stronger stories. Look at Oblivion and Fallout 3 for comparison. Both were more open world games, and both had main quests that were generally ignorable and skippable in large parts. The story ended up less important than the game world. That's fine if that's what you want, but I come to BioWare for a good story. And that generally means keeping things on a fairly set path. There might be some flexibility in when you complete certain quests, but there will likely be a set beginning, middle, and end.

Basically this. I could choose which main quests I wanted to do first, and that was fairly nice when I was trying to play in-character ("I'm a mage? I'll go recruit my fellow mages first then."), but after a few playthroughs more or less descended into meta-gaming ("If I do the mages and the Urn of Sacred Ashes before going to Redcliffe, I will feel so awesome."), complete with accompanying guilt from my inner roleplayer. I don't really care a great deal if the game tells me, "No, you shall go to Redcliffe then the mages and then the Urn," provided there's a good reason for it.

My only concern in terms of linearity is not being able to go back to locations in order to complete sidequests and such, although I suppose I wouldn't really mind this as long as they make it obvious when you're going past the point of no return.

[Bobad]

obnoxiousgas wrote...

....

My only concern in terms of linearity is not being able to go back to locations in order to complete sidequests and such, although I suppose I wouldn't really mind this as long as they make it obvious when you're going past the point of no return.

Indeed, this requires clarification.

[NKKKK]

Wow it seems that David Graider's trolling has corrupted Mary Kirby too.

[SteveGarbage]

This is the way I might anticipate it:
You finish the Lothering blight story to Cassandra. Then from there you warp into your outer frame and Cassandra and Varric banter and then she says. "But yes, how did Hawke...." BAM DIALOGUE WHEEL - then you choose the part you want to hear.
There's nothing to say that the story has to be linear. You may have your standard three or four story sections and whatever order you play them in may not matter. Say those stories happen in years 1-6 but there is no set order like there is no set order to tackle the main quest in Origins.

So for example, maybe the first thing you choose is - "How did Hawke turn the Riviani pirates from foes to friends?" and that section becomes your first main quest during year 1. Then you may choose for the second ummm "How did Hawke halt the Qunari invasion?" and then that becomes quest 2 in year 2 or 3.

The way I see it is you could maybe select those pieces in any order but then they might affect additional things further in the story. So say you do Rivaini pirates first and qunari invasion second. Maybe you get aid from Rivaini or certain sidequests or something during the Qunari quest. But maybe you choose to do Qunari first and Rivaini second. Then maybe Kirkwall's defenses are in ruins when the Rivaini pirates attack or something.

Really I think the framed narrative if it has non-specific order could make the story MORE interesting. While in Origins it didn't matter a whole lot what order you did them in, I think in DA2 with the framed narrative and the time span that order could make vast differences. Say if you don't choose to stop the Rivaini pirates until one of your last quests, maybe as you're going through earlier ones you find towns are ravaged by raids, where if you stopped them first those towns would be peaceful and prosperous.

That probably sounds like a lot of work and could get complex from the development side but it would be AWESOME. So no, I don't think necessarily you'll be forced into an order of Lothering- Quest 1- Quest 2- Quest 3 linearally. I anticipate more like Lothering - Quests A or B or C (to be done in any order) - Static Quest 1 (same for everyone upon completion of ABC - like Leviathan scene in KotOR) - Quest D or E - Finale.

Make sense? I think it does. I'm more excited than worried about the frame.

Modifié par SteveGarbage, 02 septembre 2010 - 01:37 .

[Sternchen]

I think every game is linear in his way, we have a begin, questrelevant parts, and a endboss. That´s the frame of every game. Why should it be other? To play a game without that would be interaktiv totally, would have no end.

[The Hardest Thing In The World]

So as long as the game's not like this, I think we should be OK.

[AlexXIV]

Dave of Canada wrote...

The more I hear about a framed narrative, the more I'm fearful the game will be linear in the regard of choices on how to progress through the story itself. While I've had many fears calmed by the news releases and such, I've yet to see anything that suggests differently in this regard.

When you've done Lothering in Origins, you're free to tackle your way around the world however you please and deal with each important plot aspect in whatever order you please. Yet with this ten year timeline, I'm fearful that we're going to be forced into a singular plotline and then advance into another afterwards with a timeskip.

I'll use Origins for an example.

Ostagar / Lothering [Year 1].
You're then put into year 2, stories rise up about werewolves.
Brecilian Forest / Dalish Elves [Year 2]
You've saved the elves (or werewolves), it's now year 3 and you hear rumors of the mage tower and rite of Annulment.
Mage Tower [Year 3].

Repeat this for every event in the game, you're given no choice in the regard of how it plays out itself and you only play the game in a linear fashion dealing with the plot events as they arise.

While it might be just overreacting, is anybody else seeing the ten-year timeline in a similar fashion?

I use your example. Brecilian Forst / Dalish Elves. You go there, do whatever, and afterwards game goes on disregarding your decisions. Nobody will even comment on whether you helped the Elves or Werewolves until the slideshow epilogue. Of course you can choose if you go to the Elves first or go to the Dwarves first, or Redcliffe first. But what does this choice actually change? Nothing. DA:O is one of the best examples for choices that don't matter immediatly (if anything they matter in the aftermath for your save game).

My understanding of DA2 is that depending on your choices in year 1, you get a different year 2 (or maybe year 3 depending how long the effects of your actions need to play out). My only concern with this is that if you could for example send the game in two different directions every year, you'd end up with 100+ game endings which I find a bit unlikely for a game that is shorter in development time and actual length than DA:O. Also that would mean for DA3 they would have to include these choices.

I think it is clear to see where the limits of Bioware are. Look at all the choices you make in ME and which actually change ME2. The biggest one is probably Kaidan/Ashley one, and who becomes Councilor. I don't actually know how not picking up Tali or Garrus works, never tried. Anyway the game made clear that they can't make a sequel recognizing many important events. And I think it is no big surprise either that DA2 plays in Free Marches far away from influence of the things that happen in Ferelden.

[ImoenBaby]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

 We may not be going in a temporally straight line from years 1-10.

I hadn't even considered that, and what an interesting possibility.   It's a regular occurance in film and literature, but I don't think I've played it in a game before.

What I'm not worried about is in what order events occur, because it's not important whether I go to the Circle of Magi or Orzammar first. That's not the kind of choice that matters to me.  What I care about is the outcome - how moral choices affect the game's ending (or middle, or beginning), or how character interaction affects the story.

As for multiple playthroughs, I like to turn up the difficulty each time and see what strategies need to be developed. That kind of challenge, plus trying new characters, and making new plot decisions, makes a second and third playthrough worthwhile. 

[wowpwnslol]

Non linearity in a game designed for consoles? What madness is this? It might confuse the kids. It MUST play out like a movie... or at least the latest installment of some crappy Final Fantasy game!

[Kiely]

ErichHartmann wrote...

Mary Kirby wrote...

Oh, another panic thread. That's disappointing. I was hoping this was a gathering of people suffering from phobias of perspective drawing. I'll keep searching...

Sounds like something Morrigan would say...

Ya, question or raise a concern about something and you will be belittled...classy!!!

Modifié par Kiely, 02 septembre 2010 - 03:33 .

[Meltemph]

Ya, question or raise a concern about something and you will be belittled...classy!!!

Either get thicker skin for forums or get over yourself... My god man, God forbid they show sarcasm or get annoyed with the constant crying. I love when people on this forum act "appalled" that a dev would dare raise their voice to the forum masses.

[Vandicus]

I imagine that we'll be able to choose where we go, but we won't be able to go backwards, like what happens in Lothering. The VO doesn't need to change much, if at all, to allow us to choose where to go and what to do first.

[Dave of Canada]

Meltemph wrote...

Ya, question or raise a concern about something and you will be belittled...classy!!!

Either get thicker skin for forums or get over yourself... My god man, God forbid they show sarcasm or get annoyed with the constant crying. I love when people on this forum act "appalled" that a dev would dare raise their voice to the forum masses.

It made me sadface that posting my fear attracted all that, though.  *powering the sadness coffee machine* Especially when you compare other threads to this one, I'm not shouting the sky is falling I simply shared a fear I had for the game >.<

[Meltemph]

It made me sadface that posting my fear attracted all that, though.  *powering the sadness coffee machine* Especially when you compare other threads to this one, I'm not shouting the sky is falling I simply shared a fear I had for the game >.<

They were just venting, and having a little fun, no need to take it so serious, I guarantee they do not.  The fact that there have been way worse and annoying threads should be proof enough of that.  Plus you are a bit of a regular, I'm sure they knew that also.

[Dave of Canada]

Meltemph wrote...

Plus you are a bit of a regular, I'm sure they knew that also.

Heavily doubt that the writers know who I am, I'm just another voice in the millions.

[Hollingdale]

wowpwnslol wrote...

Non linearity in a game designed for consoles? What madness is this? It might confuse the kids. It MUST play out like a movie... or at least the latest installment of some crappy Final Fantasy game!

Gtfo