134 réponses à ce sujet

[snfonseka]

fongiel24 wrote...

snfonseka wrote...

How SB knows that collectors are working for the reapers?

This point throws a wrench in the argument that the Shadow Broker couldn't possibly want to work towards his own annihilation. The Shadow Broker doesn't have access to any information that proves a connection between the Reapers and the Collectors. Cerberus and Shepard are just chasing the Collector/Reaper connection on a hunch. When Shepard asks TIM how he knows they're connected, TIM tells him "the data is all there" but  this language suggests TIM is just attempting to connect dots. 

If TIM had hard evidence connecting the Reapers to the Collectors, he has no reason to hide it from Shepard. We only get more solid data suggesting a Reaper/Collector connection later on in ME2, first on the "abandoned" Collector ship when EDI discovers the Prothean/Reaper connection and later on when EDI locates the Collector base in the galactic core. The Shadow Broker doesn't have any of this intel. The Shadow Broker may very well believe his deal with the Collectors is just an ordinary business transaction.

+ We need to keep in mind that TIM starts to suspect that after the initial abductions and not before. Because their is no reason to do so. Before the starting of the abductions, "They are rarely seen in Terminus itself, let alone Citadel space, and are generally regarded as a myth by Citadel citizens. Definite sightings of Collectors have been made on Omega every few centuries. "

Modifié par snfonseka, 02 septembre 2010 - 10:45 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

I wonder what impact the information you sold (or didn't sell) to the SB in ME1 has on this DLC. I suppose it will be cosmetic again, but it would be great if for once the decision could have a more dramatic effect.

[ExtremeOne]

KainrycKarr wrote...

I don't care if he's evil or not. He tried to sell Shepard to the collectors, and for that a very literal ass-kicking is in order. Hopefully his successor, as I am hoping I can re-utilize his resources, will not be so foolish.

  


I agree and thats the sole reason I'm getting the dlc 

[Eldareus]

snfonseka wrote...


or maybe its an AI (similar to GOTO in KOTOR 2), so because of this  it doesn't have any attachements for living beings....

That's my suspicion as well.  From the conversation with Barla Von in ME1 he mentions that the SB tries to maintain a level playing field never giving one side a clear advantage. This indicates that the decisions SB makes is more logical in nature rather than ego driven emotion.  I don't think a sentient AI being would view morality the same an organic based being since there is no emotions or feelings involved.  Also Barla Von mentions that their is a vast amount of information the SB keeps track of he suspects a whole network of folks rather than a single person, but an AI would easily manage vast amounts of knowledge.  Maybe the SB is a Geth like being.  

[Dragoonx89]

it is said that the SB has been around for decades, it would be someone with a long life span or none at all like a ai, geth, or a reaper, i just have a gut feeling its a reaper and Shepard does not know its a reaper until the end so he refers it as a he going by the voice

[Inquisitor Recon]

Why are we ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL!!!

Shadow Broker has done nothing to benefit myself, so that alone is reason enough to kill him.

[ezrafetch]

Pacifien wrote...

I'm trying very hard not to speculate on
the upcoming DLC. But I can't deny that a part of me wants the option
to leave the Shadow Broker be. Without losing Liara's loyalty if
possible.

Put in a Paragon/Renegade check afterwards to maintain loyalty and get a nice make-up romance scene? [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]

Honestly wouldn't surprise me if Bioware did that as a fan service.

[Skyblade012]

Spartindude wrote...

Honestly, if the SB is such a big guy in the galaxy and with ties to pretty much EVERYTHING, you'd expect his lair to be nigh in-penetrable. You really think that BW is gonna send you into somebody like that's fortress? Obviously not. It would be like letting Shepard die at the end of ME2... With no resurrection.
The SB could or could not be Reaper or even Geth for all that it matters, the SB could be a collective of people all working under the title of the "Shadow Broker" but who he/she/what is, is not the question. BW is giving us a choice to assume something. Don't do it,
Think about the word ASSUME
"When you assume something, you make an ASS of U and ME"

Um, quite the opposite, actually.

The Shadow Broker deals with information, and his primary defense is secrecy.  No one has attacked him because no one knows who he is.  As long as he manipulates information and ensures that finding him is not worth the cost and trouble, he's in good shape.  He'll have some defenses, certainly, but he's not going to have a volcanic island fortress with a planet killing superweapon or anything.

I doubt it would be near the difficulty of infiltrating the Collector base (from a lore standpoint, gameplay wise, the difficulty could be anywhere).

[Archereon]

Perhaps its possible that the Shadow Broker is unaware of the existence of the Reapers and their connection to the Collectors? After all, self preservation is a universal instinct, if he knew about the Reapers, it would seem natural he would want those best equipped to oppose them (the Council for example *rolls eyes at Turian*) to know about the danger the galaxy faced, if only for his own sake.



Alternatively, he could be indoctrinated like Saren (just enough that he is blindly loyal to the Reapers, but not so much that his mental facilities begin to deteriorate), or genuinely believe that the Reapers cannot be defeated, only appeased.

[Sajuro]

I want to call in that favor he owes me for the cerberus intel

[MrnDvlDg161]

I don't buy this automatic idea that some  Genius... or a group of quote " Genuises"  can be all knowing and maintain this balance in the said Galaxy through information gathering and selling --- taking out people it considers a threat and able to become more or less --- demi gods of the universe.


Every agency makes mistakes just as every organization has its players, fools, the ambitious, and the self-serving.

As this is speculation, I don't think it would be far from the truth to consider that this  Shadow Broker could have its own internal problems and become corrupted? I mean if you can corrupt an Assari Matriarch like Benezia,  take over an influential Spectre,  you can probably deduce that the Shadow Broker can also have the same faults.


So perhaps he/she/they weren't evil --- but a change had occured within the cloak-and-dagger schemes they/he/she plays.

[Wolverfrog]

I'm expecting a choice at the end of the Shadow Broker DLC.



Shadow Broker: You can kill me, but it'd take you years, maybe decades to decrypt the information I possess. Or, you could let me go, and I will give you the decryption key.

[Jonathan Shepard]

I'm with Pacifen. SB needs to be much more of a neutral character. We already Have villains as the Reapers, Collectors, Geth Heretics, Mercs, etc. We don't need the Shadow Broker against us too, especially if we've turned our backs on the Illusive Man.

[cihimi]

snfonseka wrote...

How SB knows that collectors are working for the reapers?

The pattern is in the data. The Council and the Alliance wouldn't admit it and would rather believe the threat died with Sovereign. But you and I know ( and probably most possibly, Mr. Shadow Broker, too) the the Repaers are a real threat. 

[Cra5y Pineapple]

I agree.

I would not call the Broker evil at all. I would say he/she is simply a neutral power. If I had a choice between joining any organisation in ME i'd go for the Shadow Broker. Great intel, great monies, and powerful leaders. Seriously, the Broker competed with a REAPER in redemption. That says something.

[Archereon]

Wolverfrog wrote...

I'm expecting a choice at the end of the Shadow Broker DLC.

Shadow Broker: You can kill me, but it'd take you years, maybe decades to decrypt the information I possess. Or, you could let me go, and I will give you the decryption key.

Or perhaps we could discover that the SB is indoctrinated.  The paragon choice is to spare him, but lock him up somewhere safe, but that pisses off Liara something awful.  And of course, the neutral option is to let Liara kill him, the renegade is to do it yourself.

[atheelogos]

Op what you've said is certainly something to think about

[RiouHotaru]

Pacifien wrote...

When the rumors of the Shadow Broker DLC started to sprout up several months ago, I was extremely reticent about the idea. For me, the Shadow Broker is supposed to be much as the Illusive Man is portrayed: a cold, calculating genius. Seemed a much larger figure/organization than could be contained in a DLC. Plus, I didn't like this vibe that the Shadow Broker had entered maniacal villain status. The initial role, from Barla Von's description and how the Shadow Broker was actually successful in showing much displeasure toward Saren, just gave him/her/them/it a great mystique.

I'm trying very hard not to speculate on the upcoming DLC. But I can't deny that a part of me wants the option to leave the Shadow Broker be. Without losing Liara's loyalty if possible.

It's not that he's a manicial villain.  But he DID possibly get Shepard killed and then tried to sell your body to the Collectors during Redemption.  All because it's a "good business deal" (What, who cares if the Collectors are working for the enemy of all organic life, right?)  Even from the trailer, we don't see much of the SB himself, so much as we see his agents.  THEY seem to portray him as a super-villain, but then they aren't exactly reliable narrators.

But I personally wouldn't forgive him for the crap he pulled all in the name of business.  Which is why he has to go.

[krasnoarmeets]

The shadowbroker was trying to sell Shepard's body to the collectors. What part of that could be considered good?

[Archereon]

krasnoarmeets wrote...

The shadowbroker was trying to sell Shepard's body to the collectors. What part of that could be considered good?

What if he's indoctrinated?  I don't see any other way he'd willingly assist in his own demise, he's clearly not suicidal, and therefore, he must either be ignorant to the existence of the Reapers, or deluded into thinking that by appeasing them, he will be spared, a delusion that could be due to indoctrination.

[Pacifien]

krasnoarmeets wrote...
The shadowbroker was trying to sell Shepard's body to the collectors. What part of that could be considered good?

Well, to be fair, Shepard was dead. Most people will accept death as being pretty much final unless they, for some reason, thought Shepard was vital to the survival of the entire galaxy.

So if the Collectors were asking a pretty good price for Shepard's body, don't see why someone wouldn't take the opportunity. Their connection to the Reapers is conjecture, and the Illusive Man never does cough up the data that shows us why he thought the Collectors were agents of the Reapers. Don't even know if he realizes the connection at the time Shepard died, so don't see how the Shadow Broker would either.

Anyway, not to defend the Shadow Broker as some good guy, but never thought him to be an outright bad guy either. Always viewed him as completely neutral, though never taking sides could be viewed as pretty much self-serving, somewhat cowardly, a bit morally bankrupt, and so forth. I think many people place value in a person at least sticking to one ideal or another.

[Chuvvy]

**** tried to sell your corpse to the collectors.

[axl99]

The Mass Effect Redemption comic makes the Shadow Broker out to be evil, but for now I'll just chalk it up to Liara interpreting all of the events in her own POV.



I've always thought of the Shadow Broker to be a neutral entity. In ME1 it demonstrated a peculiar sense of responsibility in the information it sells its clients, always ensuring no one gets a an edge over their competition.



But granted this is second hand information we find out from a volus in the financial sector of the Citadel [on Anderson's recommendation].



I'm not going to be making any assumptions until the DLC is out.