202 réponses à ce sujet

[tommyt_1994]

So from what I've seen from most insanity adept vids, the player will cast out a singularity, strip defenses, and then detonate that foe once he/she is suspended by the singularity, thus damaging all nearby enemies. Which is a very effective tactic, I am not doubting that one bit. But in theory, (because I have yet to test it) could a sentinel with dominate implement the same basic strategy, but be more effective? The sentinel strips the defenses of one enemey, be it with guns or squadmate powers. You then dominate this enemy, which will give that once-enemy a barrier and he/she will begin damaging their previous allies(this will also cause the other enemy foces to concentrate on your soon to be warp bomb, something singularity does not do). While your new ally is shooting, you wait until the barrier is near gone(so you can get the most out of this new found distraction) and then send out a warp. The warp will denotae the barrier just like singularity and warp does. This dominated ally will also undoubtedly be right in the middle of the enemies forces, which will cause the warp detonation to possibly damage all near enemies.

So you may ask, what advantages does this sentinel have over the adept doing the same thing with singularity? Well, the only ones I can think of are: the sentinel has a better passive cooldown. Dominate is insta-cast, while singularity has to travel(quite slowly I might add). The sentinel has power armor for added defense along with various other powers the adept simply cannot have(which may not help in this particular warp bombing situation, but will definetly be helpful in other fights, such as overload and cryo blast)

It's just a thought that quite literally crept into my mind just now while thinking about which class I would play next. I'll definetly have to test this out. Does anyone else think this could work?

PS: Any other assault sentinels out there have any good leveling priority tips? I would imagine tech armor, and then passive would be the best 2 powers to max out first? Or vice versa? Or maybe some other route would be best? I really have no clue.

Modifié par tommyt_1994, 02 septembre 2010 - 05:55 .

[sinosleep]

While you might get a similar effect, but IMO it would be better to just focus fire on whoever you want dead with your weapon and get specific people at specific times. The problem I've found with dominate is that it's entirely unreliable on what enemy's attention it will draw, the same goes for enemy drones (Shepard's drone works perfectly at distracting the enemy you actually cast it on) and it becomes an issue.

For example, when you're doing Tali's loyalty mission and Geth Hunters like to sneak into the room trying to blow your face off with a shotgun, they will often COMPLETELY ignore hacked (yeah I know hack isn't dominate but the enemies behave the exact same way) enemies right next to them to make a beeline for you. So instead of relying on that I prefer to bring Jack and Samara with their -25% CD passives and both equipped with pull and then I just focus fire on targets and go pull warp crazy. It's common to shoot one target to defenses, pull with Jack, warp immediately, pull the straggler with Samara, warp again, pull the next survivor with Jack again and so on and so forth.

As for leveling with assault sentinels I maxed tech armor first, then passive, then warp, and then switched to power army and became a warp bomb specialist instead of continuing down the in your face assault sentinel path.

Modifié par sinosleep, 02 septembre 2010 - 06:23 .

[Mr_Raider]

Are you sure warp will detonate dominate?

[sinosleep]

Mr_Raider wrote...

Are you sure warp will detonate dominate?

I honestly have no idea, I made my arguement based entirely on the dominate/hacking portion of the equation.

[termokanden]

Adepts are strong because of two things:

1. Singularity works through defenses.
2. They have Pull as a class power, which allows you to chain Warp explosions.

There are many Sentinel builds that work just fine, but they can't replicate 1. and 2. at the same time.

You can sort of replicate 2. by using Slam as your bonus power, but it doesn't exist in an area version. You can get the effect of 1 by using Flashbang, but then that doesn't set up Warp explosions.

So in answer to your question: No the Sentinel cannot be made into a more efficient Adept. It gets the job done in a different way. But to fully exploit the mechanisms of biotics, the Adept is still best. As it should be.

Modifié par termokanden, 02 septembre 2010 - 11:14 .

[sinosleep]

You don't need slam to replicate 2, all you need is to use your squad mates. Sure you can't do it on your own, but that's why you have your squad. With Jack and Samara and their 25% CD reductions working in concert with a sentinel's better warp CD you can actually get off more warp explosions (and more damaging ones at that) in the same amount of time. But I wouldn't consider that one aspect of gameplay enough to place sentinels on a pedestal as the best biotic or whatever.



For my money singularity is in a class of it's own.

[termokanden]

I thought the quickest way to chain explosions was to have Shepard do Pull, then squad Warp, repeat. With 2 squadmates that have Warp.



After all, Shepard's pull has a 3 times lower cooldown.



In any case I find Pull to be a lot better than Throw.

[sinosleep]

You could do it that way, but often times squadmate warp explosions will leave even the enemy it was cast on with some life due to the fact that you have to go unstable warp to get a sub 12 second CD. Not only that, but neither of the squadmates with built in CD reduction (Jack and Samara) have access to warp. So, since sentinels have lower CD on their own warp I prefer to cast warp myself and have the squadmates use pull since pull is on a 9 second CD and both Jack and Samara have that reduced another 25% due to their passive abilities. IMO the only places it could possibly be more efficient to do it the other way around would be on like the collector platforms since enemies usually go flying off the platform. Otherwise though I think you're better served with a more damaging warp explosion.

Modifié par sinosleep, 02 septembre 2010 - 11:47 .

[termokanden]

I would have to do some heavy testing of this to be convinced I think.

But my point remains that Adepts have access to better biotics than Sentinels and that you can't just replace the class.

If that's what you wanted to do, however, I would suggest using Flashbang rather than Dominate, since it seems to me to be by far the best crowd control in the game, and since Sentinels can spam them with the lowest cooldown.

Modifié par termokanden, 02 septembre 2010 - 12:00 .

[Bozorgmehr]

Mr_Raider wrote...

Are you sure warp will detonate dominate?

Depends, you can detonate enemies already caught by Singularity (ragdolled) before casting Dominate on them. They just keep floating in midair, but with their new barrier active. Those enemies can be detonated, have a look at what happens in this vid: www.youtube.com/watch at 3.00

I remember using Warp against Dominated enemies, but don't recall they detonate - seems like Warp just works like it does against non-Dominanted enemies. Have to try this to be absolutely sure though.

[sinosleep]

termokanden wrote...

I would have to do some heavy testing of this to be convinced I think.

But my point remains that Adepts have access to better biotics than Sentinels and that you can't just replace the class.

If that's what you wanted to do, however, I would suggest using Flashbang rather than Dominate, since it seems to me to be by far the best crowd control in the game, and since Sentinels can spam them with the lowest cooldown.

Well here are the numbers.

sentinel heavy warp 6 second CD with 30% reduction from passive and 20% reduction from upgrades equals 3 second CD not only that but if you go power armor route it's also got 15% damage increase

jack and samara both have pull on a 9 second CD by default they get 20% upgrade bonus but they both also get a 25% CD reduction bonus when you max their passive so they each have pull available every 4.95 seconds, or 5 seconds if you wanna round it up.

With your 3 second CD you WILL have a pull from Samara or Jack available each and every time you have warp on CD since you only need one of their pulls to detonate. Now looking at it the other way

adept pull is on a 3 second CD by default they get their 20% upgrade bonus and another 20% passive bonus to bring it down to 1.5 second CD

Thane and Miranda have warp, but heavy warp has a 12 second CD while unstable warp brings it down to 9. They get the 20% CD but neither of them has additional CD reduction so the max they can do is 1 warp every 7.2 seconds.

I'd rather have 2 Sentinel heavy warps every 7 some odd seconds than two squadmate unstable waprs every 7 some odd seconds.

[edit here] And just to be clear, I'm NOT saying Sentinels are hands down better biotics or any of that. All I'm saying is that for my money when taking squadmates into account they are better at warp explosions than adepts are.

Modifié par sinosleep, 02 septembre 2010 - 12:28 .

[termokanden]

I guess you're right about the Warp chain explosions then. I read this about Adepts somewhere, didn't really do the math myself. For other purposes I still think Pull is a great power to have rather than Throw.



So I still think having Pull as a class power is a good bonus.

[sinosleep]

Oh heck yeah man, I LOVE pull. I even made a vid about it, lol.

[tommyt_1994]

Dominated enemies do in fact explode when you hit them with warp, but only if their barrier is still up when you warp makes contact. I've done this multiple times.

[termokanden]

Isn't that the barrier exploding from warp though?

[mosor]

termokanden wrote...

I thought the quickest way to chain explosions was to have Shepard do Pull, then squad Warp, repeat. With 2 squadmates that have Warp.

After all, Shepard's pull has a 3 times lower cooldown.

In any case I find Pull to be a lot better than Throw.

You're bound by the squadmates cooldown. Warp has a 12 second cooldown with a squadmate while pull has only a 9 second cooldown. The real difference between a sentinel and adept is that an adept can do it's own combos using strictly their own powers.

[tommyt_1994]

termokanden wrote...

Isn't that the barrier exploding from warp though?

Yeah, but why does that matter? You dominate a defenseless enemy, they keel over and stand up with a barrier(as appose to shields with AI hacking) and begin attacking their once-teammates, you then warp them before the barrier falls and it'll cause a warp explosion.

[termokanden]

tommyt_1994 wrote...

termokanden wrote...

Isn't that the barrier exploding from warp though?

Yeah, but why does that matter? You dominate a defenseless enemy, they keel over and stand up with a barrier(as appose to shields with AI hacking) and begin attacking their once-teammates, you then warp them before the barrier falls and it'll cause a warp explosion.

It matters because warp exploding a barrier isn't the same as a warp detonating a power like, say, pull.

You're bound by the squadmates cooldown. Warp has a 12 second cooldown with a squadmate while pull has only a 9 second cooldown. The real difference between a sentinel and adept is that an adept can do it's own combos using strictly their own powers.

This is why you always take Unstable Warp for squadmates. It has a 9 second cooldown.

I think this matter was settled above, by the way, in favor of the Sentinel.

But you're right, it is unique for the Adept to be able to set up its own warp explosion.

[lazuli]

termokanden wrote...
You can sort of replicate 2. by using Slam as your bonus power, but it doesn't exist in an area version.

Even with Slam evolved for optimum length and all of the cooldown reduction (minus the visor) and the duration enhancing upgrade, I don't think Sentinels can trigger their own Warp detonations.  And squadmates are unreliable for blowing up Slam, as the window for hitting it with Warp is very short.  If a squadmate is doing something else, they can miss it.  Squadmates will reliably hit it if flagged around a corner or something where their AI won't force them to pop out and shoot at enemies.

[sinosleep]

Archon visor doesn't do anything. We did some pretty thorough testing of it in the last two pages of the vanguard sticky and have shown it to have no affect whatsoever on CD times. I messaged Eric about it but no one has gotten back to me yet.

Modifié par sinosleep, 02 septembre 2010 - 02:47 .

[lazuli]

sinosleep wrote...

Archon visor doesn't do anything. We did some pretty thorough testing of it in the last two pages of the vanguard sticky and have shown it to have no affect whatsoever on CD times. I messaged Eric about it but no one has gotten back to me yet.

Good to know.  So has this been everyone else's experience, that you cannot detonate your own Slam with a Sentinel?

[sinosleep]

I would wager it's impossible unless you are in very close range so the warp projectile doesn't have long to travel. Slam is instacast which actually HURTS you for this process since CD starts as soon as the power is cast so any time the projectile spends traveling would actually add to the "float" time and warp sweet spot. Then it's max lift time is only 1.5 seconds. It has a 1.5 CD (3 second defualt 50% reduction) if you have max upgrades and max sentinel passive but you have to take into account travel time for the warp projectile. So more often than not, it's not going to be possible.

Modifié par sinosleep, 02 septembre 2010 - 02:57 .

[Mr_Raider]

tommyt_1994 wrote...

termokanden wrote...

Isn't that the barrier exploding from warp though?

Yeah, but why does that matter? You dominate a defenseless enemy, they keel over and stand up with a barrier(as appose to shields with AI hacking) and begin attacking their once-teammates, you then warp them before the barrier falls and it'll cause a warp explosion.

All barriers go boom when hit by warp. The question is will dominate create a warp detonation where the target takes double warp damage, all enemies in the radius get knocked back, and take warp damage too. If I am to believe the wiki, the answer is no. This does not diminish the power of dominate, it's still a good power. Hell, dominate will instakill a husk.

[sinosleep]

From the gameplay data thread

Eric ****nan wrote...

Warp Detonation Explained

To detonate Warp on a target, it must be affected by Singularity, Pull, or Slam (during its lift duration only). For Pull and Singularity, you can only detonate when the target is still affected by the power, not when it's falling to the ground after the Pull has worn off, or when it's being thrown out of the singularity.

The detonated target takes double damage from Warp (whatever damage it does at that rank), and gets thrown backwards (away from the impact point) with a force specified by Detonation Force for that rank. Any damage bonuses for biotics or powers in general also get doubled.

All targets within the Detonation Radius receive full damage from Warp as if they had also been hit by the power. Furthermore, if they are affected by a biotic effect, they get double damage just like the main target. They also get thrown away from the detonation impact point with Detonation Force. These additional targets do not get detonated though (you can't chain detonations).

So as you rank up Warp and get damage bonuses for it, the detonation also does more damage. The force of the detonation is quite high, so targets also take a lot of damage from being thrown around, but that's all handled by the physics engine so I don't have any numbers..

Seems pretty clear warp explosions are only really available on pull, singularity, and the lift portion of slam. Not just on any ability biotic ability.

Modifié par sinosleep, 02 septembre 2010 - 03:49 .

[tommyt_1994]

oops. Wow do I feel dumb or what? I was under the impression that a dominated enemy would cause a warp explosion. Just tested it for myself, and I was definitely wrong.

Modifié par tommyt_1994, 02 septembre 2010 - 03:48 .