177 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave of Canada]

Faz432 wrote...

Models exist

Bethany, Hawke and such all look customed to me (unless they've really, really pumped up the character creator)

Same voice actors

Except that you know.. accents and all that jazz, including you'd need to pay more to the voice actors.

Not difficult

Good to see you're a game developer.

[Faz432]

@B3taMaxxx perhaps that's my problem I don't listen to things 'being pound into my head' I prefer to think for myself and look at all possibilities in an open way.

[Daerog]

SirGladiator wrote...
Even the seemingly difficult problem of 'How could Bethany be a mage, if she's a dwarf?' could actually be turned into a positive. As surface dwarves, it could simply be that their family had been above ground long enough that the effect of the lyrium-exposure had worn off enough to let her be one. Or it could be some other, more mysterious reason that we'd have to play the game to find out. Something like that would make a pretty interesting storyline, it's a positive and not a negative at all.

I think it is just part of Dwarven genetics by now than just being disconnected from the Fade because of Lyrium exposure. The exposure did that to them, but born outside of lyrium exposure still leaves dwarves disconnected. Not sure if such a thing just fades away. Don't know, though.

Unless half-dwarves can be connected to the Fade. Can half-dwarves be mages? They aren't full dwarves and humans can be mages...

[Dave of Canada]

Also forgot to mention how the story is apparently built with Hawke being a human in mind.

[ashwind]

Because the PC is voiced - hence the limitation. Personally I do not care for the idea but many disagrees.

[Daerog]

filaminstrel wrote...

I dunno, I had this game called Earthsiege II, where you had a squad consisting of a white guy, a woman, and a man of another ethnicity, and it didn't matter whether that man was Native American, black, or Asian, he had the same voice regardless. And... it kind of worked.

Sure, can do the same with Hawke. Not so sure if the issue is Hawke's voice work more than the fact that family plays a factor and Bethany. If Bethany does plays a big role.

[Faz432]

ashwind wrote...

Because the PC is voiced - hence the limitation. Personally I do not care for the idea but many disagrees.

You think that is a limitation but I see that as most of the work is already done.

I mean how many times will hawke refer to him/herself

"hello I am Hawke the human"

or even other people referring to him/her as 'Hawke the human'

It's not going to happen.

Modifié par Faz432, 02 septembre 2010 - 09:22 .

[upsettingshorts]

In this thread:



Presumptions leading to assumptions based on assumptions.

[B3taMaxxx]

Faz432 wrote...

@B3taMaxxx perhaps that's my problem I don't listen to things 'being pound into my head' I prefer to think for myself and look at all possibilities in an open way.

 We won't see eye to eye, but all I'm trying to say is to keep an open mindset as to the possibilities that they have conjured, and not to be blinded of hopes gone by.

 The game is made, the story(ies) is set, give it a whirl.

 I myself am not exicted about the lack of races, but instead of linger on the 'what-could-ofs', I try to imagine the 'what-coulds'.

[Daerog]

Faz432 wrote...

ashwind wrote...

Because the PC is voiced - hence the limitation. Personally I do not care for the idea but many disagrees.

You think that is a limitation but I see that as most of the work is already done.

I mean how many times will hawke refer to him/herself in the third person

"hello I am Hawke the human"

It's not going to happen.

I don't think that is the biggest reason, but BioWare did go out and try to make accents compliment the culture they are representing. I think the problem more lies on the family, as I would guess that people would give a pass on a Fereldan surface dwarf, elf, or common human having a more English accent than others...

[ashwind]

Faz432 wrote...

ashwind wrote...

Because the PC is voiced - hence the limitation. Personally I do not care for the idea but many disagrees.

You think that is a limitation but I see that as most of the work is already done.

I mean how many times will hawke refer to him/herself

"hello I am Hawke the human"

or even other people referring to him as 'Hawke the human'

It's not going to happen.

Unless you do not mind Dwarf, Elf, Human having the same voice but that would earn Bioware bad reviews for being cheap.

Human says: Hello friend.
Elf might says: Ma searanas (or something like that) Shamlin
Dwarf says: Stone something.

Also NPC will have to address and react to them differently lest again Bioware will be called lazy blah blah.

[Faz432]

ashwind wrote...

Faz432 wrote...

ashwind wrote...

Because the PC is voiced - hence the limitation. Personally I do not care for the idea but many disagrees.

You think that is a limitation but I see that as most of the work is already done.

I mean how many times will hawke refer to him/herself

"hello I am Hawke the human"

or even other people referring to him as 'Hawke the human'

It's not going to happen.

Unless you do not mind Dwarf, Elf, Human having the same voice but that would earn Bioware bad reviews for being cheap.

Human says: Hello friend.
Elf might says: Ma searanas (or something like that) Shamlin
Dwarf says: Stone something.

Also NPC will have to address and react to them differently lest again Bioware will be called lazy blah blah.

I see what you're saying but equally couldn't Bioware be accused of being 'cheap' or 'lazy' by not implementing these in development?

[biomag]

Get it finally in your heads: BW WANTS TO SCREW YOU! THEY WANT TO SEE YOU UNHAPPY! UNHAPPY ENOUGH NOT TO BUY THEIR PRODUCTS!



Only then their masterplan petting the evil kitten in an evil chair will work out and they will be able to let out an evil laugh!

[upsettingshorts]

Faz432 wrote...

I see what you're saying but equally couldn't Bioware be accused of being 'cheap' or 'lazy' by not implementing these in development?

Nope.  Are we done now?

[Faz432]

Maybe you've not noticed but this is the 'Dragon Age 2 General Discussion forum', if you have nothing worthwhile to add to the discussion then please don't.

Modifié par Faz432, 02 septembre 2010 - 09:36 .

[ashwind]

I see what you're saying but equally couldn't Bioware be accused of being 'cheap' or 'lazy' by not implementing these in development?

Well, it will be less obvious and there wont be evidence to support those claims. If they have the same voice/dialog for different races, they will be caught red handed and those who accuse them will have the evidence they need to support their case. "See~ Right there!"



As it is now, Bioware can say something like: We are concentrating all our efforts and resources to bring you the most complete story/experience about the person named Hawke. Dragon Age: Hawke's Sage

[AntiChri5]

Take your own advice?



I don't get why people are so up in arms about the race restriction. Plenty of rpg's limit your race to just one, and it's almost always a purely cosmetic choice anyway.

[upsettingshorts]

Faz432 wrote...

Maybe you've not noticed but this is the Dragon Age 2 General Discussion forum, if you have nothing worthwhile to add to the discussion then please don't

I did.  Twice actually. 

How else should I respond to reading people's assumptions regarding Bioware's development process?  Especially when all they have to say is essentially a list of presumptions about how difficult something is, and then judging Bioware negatively when they fail to live up to the absurd and baseless standards they've fabricated to justify their futile struggle to accept publicly stated design decisions reached in good faith.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 02 septembre 2010 - 09:44 .

[Daerog]

Faz432 wrote...

I see what you're saying but equally couldn't Bioware be accused of being 'cheap' or 'lazy' by not implementing these in development?

Not really. I mean, can you call Bethesda lazy for only allowing you to play/start as a vault human in Fallout 3 instead of having a ghoul or wastelander or Brotherhood of Steel option?

[Faz432]

@ AntiChri5 & Upsettingshorts

I am not 'up in arms' 'attacking' 'slating' or anything else against Bioware, I enjoyed their games and am looking forward to DA2. I am merely asking the question in order to understand the reason behind their decision not to give you and I the choice, when in my mind at least it's not that difficult to do.

If like DaerogTheDhampir is suggesting that is might be imperative to the lore and continuation of the DA story then that's fair enough, but in the DA world is it really?

Modifié par Faz432, 02 septembre 2010 - 09:51 .

[B3taMaxxx]

AntiChri5 wrote...

I don't get why people are so up in arms about the race restriction.

 It's a pretty simple concept, and not one that is unjust.

[GodWood]

Since the game's plot is designed around Hawke being human it'd be quite difficult.

[upsettingshorts]

Faz432 wrote...

I am merely asking the question in order to understand the reason behind their decision not to give you and I the choice

This part is completely reasonable.  In fact, they've probably already answered it somewhere. 

I'm willing to bet though that their answer didn't satisfy people, hence comments like...

when in my mind at least it's not that difficult to do.

...which are unreasonable and are essentially baseless assumptions.  The kind people make when they're disappointed and grasping at straws.

It's fine to be disappointed.  I get it.  Not about this issue for this game, but other issues in other games.

What isn't cool is when those issues lead folks to define their own terms for what's reasonable based on information they don't have to criticize people they don't know.  The implication in these threads is always that Bioware is incompetent or malicious.  Some even go so far as to state this.  That's when I have a problem.

Does my distinction strike you as unfair or inconsistent?

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 02 septembre 2010 - 09:58 .

[jazzy B 3]

Because the story is about a human.

Edit: Wonder if there will be stories about a dwarf or an elf or even a Qunari later on to balance things up.  I guess everyone can accept being a human, while not everyone can accept being shor, fat and smelling of lichen ale

Personally I'd love to play a dwarf-centred story, but BioWare is currently "reaching new audiences" so I guess I'll have to wait for that.

Edit 2: This also reminds me of the old threads when people were bemoaning the lack of bowstrings.

"OMG It's so imersion breaking!  It's lazy!  It's simple!  I don't understand why they're not doing it."

How many times did you honestly look at Leli with her bow pulled and go "That looks stupid, she has no string!"?

You're only going to miss this aspect because it was something that was a big part of DA:O.  DA:O was showcasing a particular story-telling style which was the modular origins and the following results and changes in the game as a whole depending on your origin.

DA2 is using a completely different narative structure that is focussing on a specific person in history.  Bioware is all about the story.  Have faith in them.

Modifié par jazzy B 3, 02 septembre 2010 - 10:10 .

[biomag]

Faz432 wrote...

@ AntiChri5 & Upsettingshorts

I am not 'up in arms' 'attacking' 'slating' or anything else against Bioware, I enjoyed their games and am looking forward to DA2. I am merely asking the question in order to understand the reason behind their decision not to give you and I the choice, when in my mind at least it's not that difficult to do.

If like DaerogTheDhampir is suggesting that is might be imperative to the lore and continuation of the DA story then that's fair enough, but in the DA world is it really?

Its actually of no importance at all if it is "that difficult" in your mind or not. Fact is that Bioware is trying to make the best game possible and they know what their fans want. The writters and devs spoken quite openly about reason why they did things or not, its just you not listening. They said - not that it is that hard to understand ecconomic reasoning being pretty logical and easy to grasp - that it has a very high trade off for bringing in elf and dwarfen origin and at the same time it would add just very little to the game. It doesn't pay off.


Just because some fan thinks its easy and worth it because he spent, what? An hour thinking about it? It doesn't mean that Bioware hasn't done the same just with more heads involved and for a longer time and with better intel. They have the numbers. They have the story. You do have neither. I guess that makes it pretty obvious who can make the better call if implementing something into DA 2 is easy or not.


That's why I make fun of it. People here assume they care more about DA 2 than those people whose incomme is based on its success. Especially as those fans also base their assumptions on half known "facts" and unreal expectations. I would at least understand all these questionings if neither writter nor other developer would speak about the decision and reasonings they made, but that's not the case.


Now, I ain't saying that the product will be good in the end. You and I will have to wait to see how it turns out. Maybe we both won't buy it or drop it after the first hour of play as it simply fails to entertain. That is a completely different matter. But questioning the development of a project without even understanding its basics is simply just flawed.

Modifié par biomag, 02 septembre 2010 - 10:29 .