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[RaZoRShArP20]

Hey all
I wanted to make a topic with some questions concerning models and textures
 
Here are some questions I have that would greatly help my Module along .
 
1: how do you export an NWN2 model and edit it a bit and upload it into DA toolset as a resource.
Any tutorials to do this? (could use some castles houses and wall’s from NWN2 that fit my setting, the building block does not really work with me)
 
2: For the ones who played the daelish part of the forrest and encountered witherfang, I really need her skintexture available on the normal people models.
Is there any way to do this?
I have a specific race called the “Makregna”who could use her grayed color skin with spots and all.
 
3:Is there any way to export any texture (even skin) edit it in photoshop and slap it on an existing model? Or export a model with texture included (when I open the model the texture is gone in 3dsmax I presume just like NWN2). Some houses and wall’s could do with another texture like marble in pillars and stuff like that .
 
4:Did anyone manage to create custom textures and custom models in game? If so… please write up a tutorial, if there is not one already because I know how to make some basic models and make the texture and UWV Wrapping…… just not for the game .
Any specific data would also be nice .
Example:
Groundtexture = 320x320
Weapon = polycount 200 + measurement in metric
Houses = 1000 polygons texture 1024x1024
 
Stuff like that.
Especially for really big area’s!
Also what the recommended area size if before the engine collapses hhhe… I have an area of 512x512.. seems really big but it’s a one city level where a lot takes place and need it as a whole for planned cutscenes and stuff like that.
 

[Adinos]

RaZoRShArP20 wrote...
1: how do you export an NWN2 model and edit it a bit and upload it into DA toolset as a resource.

The first step would be to get permission to do that.  Using a model from one game in another without permission is a violation of the intellectual property right of the creators of that model.  Perhaps such permission might be granted - it had happened before - BioWare game modders permission to take NWN models and update them for use in NWN2.

Without permission, your work would essentially contain stolen content, and I don't think BioWare/EA would allow such material to be distributed here.

Having said that, the work required would be quite extensive.  NWN2 and DA:O models implement different LoD versions in very different ways.  Also, DA:O does not use the two collision meshes that NWN2 uses and there there are important differences in the textures too - NWN2 does not use a specular map texture, for example, and uses a normal vector displacement map whereas DA:O usually uses a 1D bump map, but also has other options, not available in NWN2.

Also, doors are not compatible and animated models...well, that's an entirely different story - and would probably be more work than making the model from scratch.  Converting houses and other static models is doable - but quite a bit of work.

2: For the ones who played the daelish part of the forrest and encountered witherfang, I really need her skintexture available on the normal people models.
Is there any way to do this?

Well, the first part is to locate the texture.   Open up the MMH file and look for the mshh structures.  look for the material object field there, which will give you the name of the MAO file she uses.   Open up the MAO file and look for the name of the diffuse texture.  As for using that texture on a different creature....you cannot just copy the texture over and use it on a different model - the UV layout is probably quite different.  You would either have to redo the UV mapping, or copy over parts of the texture.  It is not easy.

3:Is there any way to export any texture (even skin) edit it in photoshop and slap it on an existing model?

Sure, that is easy.  Extract the DDS file, convert it to TGA, edit and convert back to DDS .  If you want to replace the oriiginal texture always, the easiest way is just to drop the modified texture in the override folder.   If you want to create a new model that uses the new texture, things are slightly more complicated (you need to create a modified MMH and MAO file), and then make the new model available in the palette.

I plan to enable the retexturing feature in my tool, once I have fixed a bug or two, but I have already done this for a few models ... I'll upload some example screenshots when I get back home later today.  Watch the project development status for more info:   http://social.bioware.com/project/41/

It will take time before we have full ability to import any models we want, but we are getting there.

Modifié par Adinos, 11 novembre 2009 - 11:03 .

[RaZoRShArP20]

WOW... for no information about this beeing online last time i looked you found out a big deal

and yeah i am no game model maker just yet. i can make a house sure and deconstruct it to make the UWV Mapping and get it through a tool called Crazybump to create a normal mapping and specular and other mapings..

But to make something decent with LOD and collision boxes needs some more tutorial work for me.

(if you know any please!! send one to me)



But is there a tutorial yet on how to imput custom content??

And where do i put my stuff if i want anew model and a new texture to go along with it?

Or how do i export a model inclusive texture to 3dsmax and edit it... an existing model that is .



and how detailed and large can they be?

Whats a normal average baseline to uphold?

[Ambaryerno]

Adinos,



The Wiki mentions being able to extract the textures, but never actually says HOW to do it. Any advice?

[Martin E]

Experience from NWN1/2 - it's probably easier to build models from scratch. There are always idiosyncracies with any model setup for a given game, and with NWN1 -> NWN2 it wasn't really a worthwhile process (IMO) as you were bringing in NWN1 models that simply weren't up to the standard of NWN2 and stood out like a sore thumb.



Maybe the difference from NWN2 -> DA:O is less, poly counts for building and environments do seem to be closer to NWN2. The work in making the tweaks and cajoling necessary to bring the models in is probably more significant than you think.



Martin

[Martin E]

Adinos,



that's a lot of really useful info there.



I haven't really had much time to look under the hood yet, but we could do with a sub-forum here specifically for Custom Content - akin to the one we had for NWN1. It was invaluable in focusing discussions, and went some way towards limiting duplication of effort in reverse engineering the necessary tools.



All I know is that I'm getting itchy modelling fingers.



Martin

[ablaine]

All I know is that I'm getting itchy modelling fingers.

Same.  I'm just trying to build a few models while we wait for the export/import tools to become available, so that when they do I'll be able to bring my stuff in right away. 

To help myself out in the meantime, I've been using tazpn's command line tool to export character models and use them as references so I know a general polycount and so that I can build my armor so that it meshes well with the boots/arms/head.

I'm unfortunately not at all familiar with DDS files.. do these files contain only the diffuse texture data?  Or is the diffuse/normal/spec data all layered somehow?  At this time the only way I'm able to view these files is while inside 3dsmax.  I've tried to get a thumbnail viewer and dds tools off the nvidia site but I don't believe they work on my 64 bit windows 7.  :/

[Adinos]

But to make something decent with LOD and collision boxes needs some more tutorial work for me.

One thing about different LoD versions,. In DA:O they are stored in separate files (whereas in NWN2, the different versions were separate meshes in the same file) If you use my model browser to look at the models, ot will only show you the highest LoD versions. To see what the other versions look like, you would have to unpack the MMH files and open the lower LoD files.

Now, I don't know what the rules are for when the engine uses each version - I guess it depends on the size of the model and the distance from the camera to the model, but using the lower detail versions saves a lot of processing.

But is there a tutorial yet on how to imput custom content??

Not yet - we have to write the tools first.

The Wiki mentions being able to extract the textures, but never actually says HOW to do it. Any advice?

Open the erf file in the toolset and select "Export all", which will export all the DDS files.- there are actually two texture erf files - I don't remember the exact path - I'm at work and don't have the toolset here, but they shouldn't be too hard to find.

I'm unfortunately not at all familiar with DDS files.. do these files contain only the diffuse texture data?

A DDS file contains a single texture (with alpha channel) and each model will typically use multiple DDS files...one for the diffuse texture, one for the specular map, one for the bump map and so on. Look at the information on the material editor in the Wiki http://social.biowar...Material_editor for more info.

I personally find it easiest to convert the DDS files to TGA or even JPGs, so it is easier to browse them.

Modifié par Adinos, 11 novembre 2009 - 05:02 .

[Eidolonn]

What is the weapon of choice these days? Blender, trueSpace, SketchUp, other?

Modifié par Eidolonn, 11 novembre 2009 - 05:10 .

[Martin E]

I would say 3ds max.



Not sure if Gmax is still bouncing around anywhere ?



Martin

[Eidolonn]

3ds Max is far too expensive.



You can get gmax off of Turbo Squid, but it's way outdated. Still the version from 2001 and has Discreet listed as the licensor.



Personally, Google SketchUp is pretty awesome. It would just need someone to write the utilities for it.

[Adinos]

3DS Max is the best choice - if you can afford it (which for most people is a question of whether they qualify for the educational pricing). Maya is also quite popular, and pretty advanced.

Regarding Google Scetchup - well, you would need the $500 Pro version - the free version has no real export capability, but as far as free programs are concerned, I would suggest either Blender or XSI modtool.

My personal favourite is Silo http://www.nevercenter.com/silo/ which is $99 (Core) or $159 (Pro).

And yes, regarding the earlier question on poly count and so on, it is probably a good idea to use the DA:O models as a reference - don't exceed them by much. To see the details on the models, run the model browser and select View->Model Information - this will give you the number of meshes, vertices, triangles(faces) and bones.

Modifié par Adinos, 11 novembre 2009 - 06:21 .

[Eidolonn]

Adinos wrote...
My personal favourite is Silo http://www.nevercenter.com/silo/ which is $99 (Core) or $159 (Pro).

Are you planning on doing any custom modelling with DA:O?  If so, are you going to use Silo for your work?

[Adinos]

Eidolonn wrote...

Are you planning on doing any custom modelling with DA:O?  If so, are you going to use Silo for your work?

I might, but quite frankly, I'm a better programmer than modeler - so my time might be better spent writing tools to help others do their job <_< But, who knows - I always wanted to make a model of the Alexander Nevski Cathedral or the Hagia Sophia.

It also depends a lot on how the community evolves, and how serious BioWare is about supporting the builder community....and on that topic, I would like to point out this thread: http://social.biowar.../8/index/119467, as there are several things BioWare can do to make the social site more usable for builders.

[Toryss]

You are able to play around with the models and textures now, as there are exports available.  It shouldn't be long until they're finished making the importing software.

I spent an hour this morning looking at a couple of the textures used for DA.  Human buildings, for example, use a 2048x512 texture, and is shared amongst it's structures.

Once you understand the texture layout, you can make new buildings using it so it'll fit in quite well with everything else.

Below is a sample building I used for some quick tests.  As you can see, it's really not ideal, and needs more smaller pieces to break it up a bit.

For poly counts, use the viewer from Adinos.

[Ambaryerno]

Toryss,



I'm at work right now so can't check, but are swords set up the same way? One texture with parts on the map for multiple variations?

[Toryss]

Nope, each weapon would have it's own texture, as they all have custom engraving and such.

[Ambaryerno]

What are the dimensions, then? Because that leaves a LOT of blank space on the map if it's ^2

[ablaine]

Also what method are you using to export the models and textures, Toryss?

[Toryss]

The weapons are 512x512.

The command scripts from Tazpn allow you to extract models/textures, he has them uploaded to his project page on this site.

Modifié par Toryss, 11 novembre 2009 - 08:19 .

[Ambaryerno]

I definitely need to check out how these are mapped, as 512x512 isn't much, and that would lead to a significant difference in resolution between the blades and hilts....

[ablaine]

Just had some other general questions after exporting some models and textures and examining them in max.

First, the normal maps aren't the typical tangent-space normal maps I'm used to working with in other game engines. These are greyscale and appear to be standard bump maps.. Is this the case? Is there a reason why the engine wouldn't support tangent space normal maps like most current-gen engines?

Also, what role do the tint maps play? If I were to plug this map into a slot in max's material editor, where would it go? Spec color?

Is it possible to export the morph heads to obj (or other formats) in order to ensure our clothing and armor meshes line up correctly with the head that we're using?

Is it possible to export the hair meshes in order to correctly line up and size custom hair models?



FYI, the exporting i've done was accomplished with Tazpn's command line tools.



Thanks!

[RaZoRShArP20]

ablaine wrote...

Just had some other general questions after exporting some models and textures and examining them in max.
First, the normal maps aren't the typical tangent-space normal maps I'm used to working with in other game engines. These are greyscale and appear to be standard bump maps.. Is this the case? Is there a reason why the engine wouldn't support tangent space normal maps like most current-gen engines?
Also, what role do the tint maps play? If I were to plug this map into a slot in max's material editor, where would it go? Spec color?
Is it possible to export the morph heads to obj (or other formats) in order to ensure our clothing and armor meshes line up correctly with the head that we're using?
Is it possible to export the hair meshes in order to correctly line up and size custom hair models?

FYI, the exporting i've done was accomplished with Tazpn's command line tools.

Thanks!

would like to know that as well .
Where you make the tintable map in Max...
Just.... how do you uwv that mapping??

[Adinos]

RaZoRShArP20 wrote...
would like to know that as well .
Where you make the tintable map in Max...
Just.... how do you uwv that mapping??

The tint map uses the same UV coordinates as the diffuse map, the emissive map, the normal map, the relief map and the specular map. 

Note, however, that for any particular object only some of those 6 maps might be used.

As for the tint map, it seems to be only used for tattoos, makeup and such...I haven't tried applying a tint map to other models - but I am sure someone will be experimenting with that.