42 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

I'm quite curious, since cunning seems to be mostly a dumpstat for non-rogues after getting the minimum needed for whatever crafting/combat tactics level you get.

[Elhanan]

Cunning of 16 is required for Coersion (4), so this is my best guess. But dialogue seems to be achieved thru other ability scores, too (eg; maybe STR for Intimidate).

[ussnorway]

Yes STR = Intimidate and CUNN is persuasion.

Having 4 Coersion will unlock all dialogue options in the game.

[Dean_the_Young]

Let me rephrase:



I was under the impression that some dialogue choices only appear with a high enough cunning score. Such as in the Tower of Ishal, making a conclusion of how the darkspawn might have been led into the tower. I believe they show up with a [cunning] to the left of the choice.



I'm not talking about persuasion checks, I'm talking about making all the mundane dialogue choices even appear.

[Elhanan]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Let me rephrase:

I was under the impression that some dialogue choices only appear with a high enough cunning score. Such as in the Tower of Ishal, making a conclusion of how the darkspawn might have been led into the tower. I believe they show up with a [cunning] to the left of the choice.

I'm not talking about persuasion checks, I'm talking about making all the mundane dialogue choices even appear.

I got that initially. But my guess is that 16 being used for top Coersion would be used for the standard of making a 'cunning indv', too.

[ussnorway]

My Human mage (shapeshifter) has not touched his Cunning but still got the Cunning option at the tower... I don't think that Cunning (apart from needing some to take Coersion) plays any part in it.

[jsachun]

All dialogue options will appear, but lack of cunning stats or and coersion will make the persuasive dialogue unsuccesful. That is all.

[termokanden]

I don't remember seeing the Tower of Ishal cunning option on my elf mage (would have had 11 cunning at the time).

[PatT2]

I've had cunning higher than 30 or maybe higher, and I get cunning options in coversations with Wynne, and others. But I have no idea what the level is to have them all show up. I'm playing a cunning rogue, so this time, I'm seeing many...3 or 4 times now at least. plus the card game at the Pearl with that woman... with cunning you'll see the hands cheat.

[termokanden]

Well I can confirm that if you have no Coercion talents and 11 cunning, you get no extra option at the Tower of Ishal.

I always thought you would get the persuade options in any case and stat based options if those are high enough.

Modifié par termokanden, 05 septembre 2010 - 12:34 .

[Vayryn]

Aside from the smattering of dialogue options that are labeled with a handy (Cunning) label, your Cunning score will actually add unmarked dialogue options, as well as modify existing dialogue options into more intelligent or insightful ones. In addition, with a high enough Cunning statistic, some more dialogue options that tend toward the simplistic will not be available.

Also note: Coercion does NOT affect these examples. Coercion gives a bonus to your base Cunning statistic when calculating the success or failure of a (Persuade) check, but the dialogue modifications you are wondering about are affected by your Cunning stat alone (though I have not tested whether it takes your base stat or your stat modified by any gear bonuses).

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First, the obvious...

EXAMPLE 1 [Options prompted by (Cunning)]: During the dialogue with Alistair prompted by "So, you said you were raised by the Chantry", after being told that he was raised by dogs and replying, "That must have been tough for them".

With 16 Cunning, you receive the standard options.

With 30 Cunning, there is an extra option "(Cunning) Do you write at least? I bet your mom was a real ****." This does not affect the overall potential Approval gain from this section of dialogue or from this line in particular (which is +2), but does elicit an appropriately amiable reaction.

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The less obvious...

EXAMPLE 2 (Unlabeled Cunning dialogue options): When asking the Tranquil in the Ostagar ruins "You speak strangely. Why is that?", you are asked, in turn, "Do you know why the Chantry believes magic is dangerous?".

With 16 Cunning, you receive 3 options, "Because magic is dangerous", "The Chantry claims that all magic is sinful", and "I don't really know."

With 30 Cunning, there is a fourth, unmarked option "Because the Tevinter Imperium was ruled by mages", showing your character's knowledge of history.

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The barely registered...

EXAMPLE 3 (Modified dialogue): After completing the Tower of Ishal, while speaking to Flemeth and Alistair, after Alistair mentions, "Arl Eamon would never stand for it. The Landsmeet would never stand for it", and replying with any of the three available options.

With 16 Cunning, the first available option is "Surely there are other allies we could call on", which prompts Alistair to mention that the Grey Warden treaties may be used to garner aid from several different groups.

With 30 Cunning, the first available option becomes "What about the treaties Flemeth gave us?", which prompts Flemeth to comment on your good sense before Alistair continues on with the above dialogue.

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The hardly ever detected...

EXAMPLE 4 (Unavailable dialogue): During the Human Noble origin, after agreeing to help Aldous teach the squires about history and asking, "When was our line founded?", Aldous replies, "The records are vague, but the Couslands became Teyrn's during the Black Age. Is that familiar, child?"

With 16 Cunning, there are three options available, "(Cunning) During the lycanthrope plagues?", "Not really", and "Yeah, I remember something about an age in there.".

With 30 Cunning, there are only two options available, "(Cunning) During the lycanthrope plagues?", and "Yeah, I remember something about an age in there.".

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In summation, 30 Cunning is a good target. I have heard that 30 is the requirement for Example 1, and have not heard of any other options that require anything more than that. I am also unwilling to make multiple playthroughs with 29 Cunning, 28 Cunning, etc. to get exact numbers.

30 is a nice, round number, and everyone likes Armor Penetration and Mental Resistance, in any event.

Hope this helps,



- Vayryn

Modifié par Vayryn, 07 septembre 2010 - 08:34 .

[Monica21]

Vayryn wrote...
With 30 Cunning, there is a fourth, unmarked option "Because the Tevinter Imperium was ruled by mages", showing your character's historical knowledge.

This seems to be about right, especially in the early stages of the game. I had a rogue months ago and was dumping all my points into Cunning, and only got the extra dialogue option in the Tower of Ishal with 30 Cunning. I'm not sure if super high Cunning does anything at later stages of the game though.

[YouNoop]

You would really have to slack in the other attributes to have such a high cunning so early on.

[Monica21]

I did. I had heard about the extra line in the Tower of Ishal and purposely neglected other attributes to have a Cunning that high.

[ENolan]

Just be sure to have a 30+ Cunning score by the time you get to Riordan in Redcliffe or you risk sounding like a very unintelligent warden.

Ok, that was just an opinion. I had a warrior city elf with 25-30 Cunning points including any equipment bonuses and when we were discussing the battle plans on the Eve of Battle, I didn't have the usual option "[Cunning] The Archdemon is what's important." So, cause-and-effect idea aside, I felt like I didn't do enough of my warden homework in the story and I failed my warden-commander test. Weird what makes someone feel lazy...

[Dean_the_Young]

And the sad thing is that cunning seems like such a dump stat compared to the rest.

[termokanden]

It's how people think RPGs must be made. You should sacrifice combat ability for better dialogue options.



I bet few people would actually do this though, particularly in DAO where the extra cunning options don't actually help you in any way.

[Dean_the_Young]

I think those people are silly, if they take it to such extremes. Coercion/diplomacy points? Sure. Hiding the options?



If I can figure out how, I'll just 'cheat' and bump my cunning to fifty from the start and see what comes.

[Dean_the_Young]

And what about if you aren't a rogue who can take lethality?



I'm a strictly casual player (though I might try to get the Harvester on Nightmare for the achievement), so cheating overall doesn't exactly change the combat for me.

[termokanden]

I think cunning is far too easy to misunderstand. In fact it's kind of hard to understand what exactly is happening with the dex/cunning tradeoff as a rogue. The game makes no attempt to clear up this matter at all. It even goes as far as to claim strength is very important to rogues in one of the ingame tips.



Seems to me it's just a strange malplaced leftover from the days of AD&D when rogues would have above average intelligence.



For other classes than rogues the benefit is extremely limited. Sure you get armor penetration. But then you can have damage and attack rating instead.

[The Lesser Evil]

I SO feel like I just dug something up from the forum graveyard, but the added dialogue options interest me. Playing with high cunning really adds some interesting twists to conversations. Some of them aren't even marked with (Cunning), but are definitely options that aren't available without high cunning.

For instance, the first time you meet Flemeth, she asks the following question (female Warden):

"And what of you? Does your woman's mind give you a different viewpoint? Or you believe as these boys do?"

The options I got on my Rogue (who had high cunning for lockpicking without taking the talents, and working toward getting lethality) were these:

1) I'm no fool, if that's what you're asking.
2) I don't know what to believe.
3) I believe you're crazy and possibly dangerous.
4) Believed or not, some things must be accepted.

Option 4 is definitely absent when your cunning isn't high enough, as is Flemeth's response to it when she says "Ha! There lies the answer I hoped to get. An open mind, yet not made of mush. Am I simply complimenting you? Wait and see."

I'm curious what other new dialogue options I'll run into. It's definitely nice to be smarter. It fits so nicely with my intent to have my female Cousland talk her way into Alistair's good graces and end up as Queen of Ferelden. >.>

[DWSmiley]

What cunning did that take?

[The Lesser Evil]

I had 29 cunning without taking gear into account, 34 cunning with some minor stat boosts you can get from a couple of DLC items. 30 cunning is probably the required amount here too.