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[Sarah1281]

Addai67 wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

The fact that you are marked as Wardens together, and all the crap you went through together in the Blight, I do not see him giving up on that for some noblewoman he has to marry just to satisfy the politicos. Just not IC for Alistair, as I see it.

I wouldn't think it would be very 'IC' for any of the shem-hating elves (and yes, I know that not everyone plays their elf Warden like that but plenty do) to fall in love with Alistair and yet it's generally accepted that they couldn't help it if they fell in love with him because he's just that awesome and understanding so I don't see how it would be OOC for Alistiar to fall for a really awesome and understanding Queen. It WOULD be OOC for him to not feel terrible about it for his Mistress' sake but he wouldn't be able to help it anymore than those Wardens Alistair fans play who never wanted to get involved with a human before, well, they did.

Does Alistair feel terrible about the idea of Isabela sharing him one week every summer?  If the Warden says "no way," sure.  If she doesn't, he sounds rather intrigued by the idea.

And there is no "OOC" for a PC, because you can RP a PC however you like.  My canon elf mage is an Andrastian who got nothing but really awful crap from her own people and spent more time around humans than elves.  She doesn't know a Dalish elf from a Qunari.  Alistair got nothing but crap from humans.  They have a lot in common.

Why should he feel bad? It's hardly a serious suggstion. And given how Alistair can fall in love with anyone who shows interest in him and treats him well, I feel that a wife who does that and who he has a committment to is also someone that he could fall for.

Edit: I probably didn't phrase the OOC thing the best way. I was just trying to say that I don't find Alistair falling in love with someone to be OOC. How I, you, or anyone else think he would handle falling for his wife while having a mistress might be OOC but the act of falilng in love wouldn't be.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 03 septembre 2010 - 06:56 .

[Addai]

Sarah1281 wrote...
 Why should he feel bad? It's hardly a serious suggstion. And given how Alistair can fall in love with anyone who shows interest in him and treats him well, I feel that a wife who does that and who he has a committment to is also someone that he could fall for.

I think this is the problem.  It sounds like you see Alistair falling in love at the drop of a hat.  I'm not sure where you get that.  I interpret him as taking matters of love very seriously and thus not being a serial romance kind of guy.  He says, after falling in love with the PC, that he never thought it would happen at all.

I mean, Wynne is nice to him too and so is Leliana, does that mean he's got a foursome going in camp?  LOL  Zevran and Oghren approve +50

I'm not saying it's out of the realm of any possibility.  Leliana could convert to the Qun post-Blight for all we know.  But all we see in-game points to certain outcomes and Warden + Alistair 4eva certainly seems likely enough to me.

[Sarah1281]

Addai67 wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...
 Why should he feel bad? It's hardly a serious suggstion. And given how Alistair can fall in love with anyone who shows interest in him and treats him well, I feel that a wife who does that and who he has a committment to is also someone that he could fall for.

I think this is the problem.  It sounds like you see Alistair falling in love at the drop of a hat.  I'm not sure where you get that.  I interpret him as taking matters of love very seriously and thus not being a serial romance kind of guy.  He says, after falling in love with the PC, that he never thought it would happen at all.

I mean, Wynne is nice to him too and so is Leliana, does that mean he's got a foursome going in camp?  LOL  Zevran and Oghren approve +50

I'm not saying it's out of the realm of any possibility.  Leliana could convert to the Qun post-Blight for all we know.  But all we see in-game points to certain outcomes and Warden + Alistair 4eva certainly seems likely enough to me.

I didn't say he falls in love at the drop of a hat. I KNOW that he can fall in love with many, many different kinds of people. He's going to be spending quite a bit of time with his wife since they live together and need to work together politically if she's going to do anything at all not to mention the heir-making. I think the thought that Alistair would fall for his wife is a bit more likely than Leliana converting to the Qun.

Besides, Alistair sees Wynne as his grandmother and in the absence of the Warden Alistair totally falls for Leliana.

[Addai]

I think "in the absence of the Warden" is the key phrase re. Leliana, besides the fact that I'm not sure we really want to pull DSC in for story purposes. There's no Origins evidence of Leliana and Alistair flirtation.  What we're talking about here is if Alistair is able to remain a one-woman man in his affections, not if he couldn't have ever fallen in love with anyone else but the Warden in any AU.

Re. spending a lot of time with his wife, etc., again, I am picturing a political marriage not a modern marriage. They would have separate quarters and very separate lives except for official functions and occasional attempts to produce an heir. As I see it, the Warden mistress is the wife in everything but name. Very similar to Chani/Irulan in the Dune universe, apart from the heir production responsibility. A political marriage is a working partnership, not a love match. It doesn't mean there wouldn't be complicated feelings, especially about the sex. Though the fact that a hardened Alistair is more sexually liberated points to him being able to handle that, if the Warden is supportive. I actually see my Warden as being... erm, very supportive in that area. LOL

Modifié par Addai67, 03 septembre 2010 - 07:22 .

[OBakaSama]

Looks like the word 'love' is causing some problems.

As for the topic question: unhardened Alistair made king alone, without Anora, with any non-noble female character, Loghain killed, no dark ritual, Alistair in final battle with the Warden. That really blows up in everyone's face (to those that matter anyway). One of the worst endings I've experienced with my female mage.

Modifié par OBakaSama, 03 septembre 2010 - 10:40 .

[Eudaemonium]

OBakaSama wrote...

Looks like the word 'love' is causing some problems.

As for the topic question: unhardened Alistair made king alone, without Anora, with any non-noble female character, Loghain killed, no dark ritual, Alistair in final battle with the Warden. That really blows up in everyone's face (to those that matter anyway). One of the worst endings I've experienced with my female mage.

Heh. That's pretty much my canon-ending these days. I lieks teh tragedy.

[Monica21]

Sarah1281 wrote...

I'm convinced that if you stay as mistress to a not-married-to-Anora Alistair then it will blow up in your face as he WILL get married to someone else and falls in love easily. He's not going to want to hurt his new Queen, even pre-love, by carrying on with you and if she doesn't accept it then he'll be very sorry but you're out.

I agree with all this. Alistair isn't the type to fully get the implications of a political marriage, and if his wife is kind and even provides him with an heir, he will feel guilty. I can actually see him and Anora even being happy together. Eventually.

[Addai]

Monica21 wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

I'm convinced that if you stay as mistress to a not-married-to-Anora Alistair then it will blow up in your face as he WILL get married to someone else and falls in love easily. He's not going to want to hurt his new Queen, even pre-love, by carrying on with you and if she doesn't accept it then he'll be very sorry but you're out.

I agree with all this. Alistair isn't the type to fully get the implications of a political marriage, and if his wife is kind and even provides him with an heir, he will feel guilty. I can actually see him and Anora even being happy together. Eventually.

You've obviously never heard his hardened responses when a) persuaded to continue the relationship and when asked after the LM where the relationship is going.

But if you have a view of Alistair as that clueless and puppydog, you probably shouldn't make him king anyway.

P.S. @Sarah:  I think Isabela's request to borrow Alistair a week every summer is perfectly serious.  That's probably when she's in Denerim, and she wants to know if the threesome can become a regular thing.

[cmessaz]

I think the fact of the matter is everyone has different views on this scenario, and I don't think anyone is right or wrong, it has to do with one's viewpoint. I am an Alistair fangirl and still I really can't see the mistress ending happily at all in any circumstance, but that's because my personal beliefs, which no one can change.

[Addai]

cmessaz wrote...

I think the fact of the matter is everyone has different views on this scenario, and I don't think anyone is right or wrong, it has to do with one's viewpoint. I am an Alistair fangirl and still I really can't see the mistress ending happily at all in any circumstance, but that's because my personal beliefs, which no one can change.

Obviously the player attitude to the ending is a personal thing.  What we're discussing, though (at least from my POV), is whether it's something realistic to Alistair's character.  Obviously that touches also on how you view his character, but the fact that it's even a possibility tells me the writers think it's IC for him (when hardened).

I'd be interested to hear Gaider's opinion on the subject, actually.

Modifié par Addai67, 04 septembre 2010 - 12:50 .

[Sarah1281]

Addai67 wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

I think the fact of the matter is everyone has different views on this scenario, and I don't think anyone is right or wrong, it has to do with one's viewpoint. I am an Alistair fangirl and still I really can't see the mistress ending happily at all in any circumstance, but that's because my personal beliefs, which no one can change.

Obviously the player attitude to the ending is a personal thing.  What we're discussing, though (at least from my POV), is whether it's something realistic to Alistair's character.  Obviously that touches also on how you view his character, but the fact that it's even a possibility tells me the writers think it's IC for him (when hardened).

I'd be interested to hear Gaider's opinion on the subject, actually.

The fact that what is even a possibility means it's IC for him? Having a mistress at all? That doesn't mean it won't end happily or that if he finds a compatible enough wife that he won't come to care for her and break things off with you.

[sylvanaerie]

Addai67 wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

I think the fact of the matter is everyone has different views on this scenario, and I don't think anyone is right or wrong, it has to do with one's viewpoint. I am an Alistair fangirl and still I really can't see the mistress ending happily at all in any circumstance, but that's because my personal beliefs, which no one can change.

Obviously the player attitude to the ending is a personal thing.  What we're discussing, though (at least from my POV), is whether it's something realistic to Alistair's character.  Obviously that touches also on how you view his character, but the fact that it's even a possibility tells me the writers think it's IC for him.

I'd be interested to hear Gaider's opinion on the subject, actually.

Anything that isn't in the game is pure speculation on the player's parts.  I suppose if you view Alistair as fickle and a serial romancer he will dump the PC when a new shiny/pretty comes along.  Personally I don't view the character in this light.  
Alistair isn't stupid.  I think he will make sure the new Queen (who would have a very separate life of her own) is aware of the situation, keep his relationship discreet (like Cailan did his ladies) and all three would be grown ups about the whole thing.  But as this isn't in the game, this is all speculation on my part as well.  But this is how I choose to see the situation.
Nothing is said in game ONE way or the OTHER.  However, IN game, Morrigan dumps the PC she loves whether or not he gives her what she wants.  Does she feel regret or remorse for what she's thrown away?  Yes.  Does this stop her from actually DOING it? No.  
And lets think about the whole implications of the godbaby here.  Will the darkspawn pursue her for it?  Will Flemeth take it from her for whatever she plans?  Will Morrigan find its something completely out of her control in the first place and she's bitten off FAR more than she can chew?  All these are speculation but valid concerns as well. 

Kinda makes any of the other blow ups in your face a bit petty and small in comparison.  Morrigan gets my vote as the most tragic and complicated romance in the game.

[Addai]

Sarah1281 wrote...
The fact that what is even a possibility means it's IC for him? Having a mistress at all? That doesn't mean it won't end happily or that if he finds a compatible enough wife that he won't come to care for her and break things off with you.

Like I said, you can imagine any ending for any of the LIs that you like.  All indications in the game point to Alistair staying with the Warden no matter what the other circumstances unless she breaks it off.

[Sarah1281]

Anything that isn't in the game is pure speculation on the player's parts. I suppose if you view Alistair as fickle and a serial romancer he will dump the PC when a new shiny/pretty comes along. Personally I don't view the character in this light.

I hardly think 'Alistair marries a wonderful noblewoman and over time eventually comes to care for her and so can't bear to be involved with both her and the Warden and so, since he's married to her, breaks it off with the Warden' equates to 'Alistair is a fickle serial romancer.'



And all indications in the game say that Alistair hasn't even taken the throne yet, there has been no pressure at all from anyone to break it off, everyone has been way too focused on the Blight, you haven't even been considered an actual mistress for more than five minutes at the post-coronation and so regardless of Alistair's grand declarations of epic love, there really is no indication of which way it will end up going once reality sets in.

[Addai]

Sarah1281 wrote...

And all indications in the game say that Alistair hasn't even taken the throne yet, there has been no pressure at all from anyone to break it off, everyone has been way too focused on the Blight, you haven't even been considered an actual mistress for more than five minutes at the post-coronation and so regardless of Alistair's grand declarations of epic love, there really is no indication of which way it will end up going once reality sets in.

Awakening, epilogues, etc.

Anyway, like sylvanaerie said, it's all pure speculation.  And in the end we actually agree that it will be a complicated romance, but so will Cousland with the heir problem and Zevran with assassins chasing you and whatever.   I like complex, myself, and am glad the game makes Alistair and Morrigan's romances difficult.

[Monica21]

Addai67 wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

I'm convinced that if you stay as mistress to a not-married-to-Anora Alistair then it will blow up in your face as he WILL get married to someone else and falls in love easily. He's not going to want to hurt his new Queen, even pre-love, by carrying on with you and if she doesn't accept it then he'll be very sorry but you're out.

I agree with all this. Alistair isn't the type to fully get the implications of a political marriage, and if his wife is kind and even provides him with an heir, he will feel guilty. I can actually see him and Anora even being happy together. Eventually.

You've obviously never heard his hardened responses when a) persuaded to continue the relationship and when asked after the LM where the relationship is going.

But if you have a view of Alistair as that clueless and puppydog, you probably shouldn't make him king anyway.

P.S. @Sarah:  I think Isabela's request to borrow Alistair a week every summer is perfectly serious.  That's probably when she's in Denerim, and she wants to know if the threesome can become a regular thing.

I have heard his hardened responses and it hasn't changed my mind. And thank you for clarifying my views of Alistair for me, by the way.

"I will always love you and I'll do whatever it takes for us to be together" is simply not taking into account what happens when he does become king. You are his first love, and most people, despite declarations of undying love, are not married to their first love. We all have fond memories, sure, but the reality is that it rarely works out that way, especially for someone with the severe external pressures that Alistair will face.

[Addai]

It's not a modern romance, however. And I also know people who married their high school sweethearts and haven't looked at another person that way ever again. Re. your view of Alistair, saying he "doesn't understand a political marriage" --> clueless and falling for a woman just because she's nice to him --> puppy dog. But naturally you're entitled to your interpretation of the character.

[sylvanaerie]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Anything that isn't in the game is pure speculation on the player's parts. I suppose if you view Alistair as fickle and a serial romancer he will dump the PC when a new shiny/pretty comes along. Personally I don't view the character in this light.

I hardly think 'Alistair marries a wonderful noblewoman and over time eventually comes to care for her and so can't bear to be involved with both her and the Warden and so, since he's married to her, breaks it off with the Warden' equates to 'Alistair is a fickle serial romancer.'

And all indications in the game say that Alistair hasn't even taken the throne yet, there has been no pressure at all from anyone to break it off, everyone has been way too focused on the Blight, you haven't even been considered an actual mistress for more than five minutes at the post-coronation and so regardless of Alistair's grand declarations of epic love, there really is no indication of which way it will end up going once reality sets in.

And who says he will marry this "mythical noblewoman who apparently can make him fall out of love with his Warden"?  Why can't he just as likely find someone who will agree to a political marriage to keep everything as it is already?  Why does he HAVE to fall in love with his wife?  This is all speculation.  Just as him staying with the Warden mistress is speculation but I see this as closer to his character.
If you read my entire post you will see I don't feel his is the biggest blow up in your face in the game.  It's MORRIGAN with her "I wanna Godbaby so give me what I want and I leave you...or don't give me what I want and I'll throw a hissy and still leave you and you get to DIE."

[Sarah1281]

And who says he will marry this "mythical noblewoman who apparently can make him fall out of love with his Warden"? Why can't he just as likely find someone who will agree to a political marriage to keep everything as it is already? Why does he HAVE to fall in love with his wife? This is all speculation. Just as him staying with the Warden mistress is speculation but I see this as closer to his character.

If you read my entire post you will see I don't feel his is the biggest blow up in your face in the game. It's MORRIGAN with her "I wanna Godbaby so give me what I want and I leave you...or don't give me what I want and I'll throw a hissy and still leave you and you get to DIE."

I did read the entire post. What I was responding to was the part I quoted where you completely misrepresented what I was saying by characterizing my view of Alistair as him being fickle and a serial romancer.



This all started because Addai said she thought it would be OOC for him to fall in love with his wife. I think that if he married the right person, it would be perfectly IC for him to fall for her and if he does fall in love with his wife then he will leave you. That's not to say that he WILL marry someone that he could love or that she would be at all interested in love but it very well could happen.

[Monica21]

Addai67 wrote...

It's not a modern romance, however. And I also know people who married their high school sweethearts and haven't looked at another person that way ever again. Re. your view of Alistair, saying he "doesn't understand a political marriage" --> clueless and falling for a woman just because she's nice to him --> puppy dog. But naturally you're entitled to your interpretation of the character.

You've entered into an entirely new realm of "slippery slope." I said and meant nothing of the kind. He doesn't understand the nature of a political marriage. He knows nothing about politics. He was raised to be a templar and that's it.

I believe that when he says he loves you and will do whatever it takes to be together that he means it. I also think that's a very simplistic view of how both your lives will play out.

[KnightofPhoenix]

sylvanaerie wrote...
or don't give me what I want and I'll throw a hissy and still leave you and you get to DIE."

That sounds awfully familiar.  

[sylvanaerie]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...
or don't give me what I want and I'll throw a hissy and still leave you and you get to DIE."

That sounds awfully familiar.  

LOL I thought you'd like that one KoP 

[KnightofPhoenix]

sylvanaerie wrote...
LOL I thought you'd like that one KoP 

Don't I always

On the subject of which romance is likely to blow up on our faces. I think the Morrigan romance wins with no competition, unless the Witch Hunt has a really happy resolution, which I doubt and don't really want.  

[Monica21]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...
LOL I thought you'd like that one KoP 

Don't I always

On the subject of which romance is likely to blow up on our faces. I think the Morrigan romance wins with no competition, unless the Witch Hunt has a really happy resolution, which I doubt and don't really want.  

Out of curiosity, what does Wynne have to say about the Warden romancing her?

[Sarah1281]

She's only interested in sex. And she has no morals.