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[Monica21]

Nothing about the whole apostate business?

[sylvanaerie]

Monica21 wrote...

Nothing about the whole apostate business?

Well she tells the PC Morrigan is an amoral maleficar who is using him.  Roland told her to STFU.  He's the only one of my PC's I can do that with...I likes the Morrigan romance even if it is complicated.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Meeh, I can't even remember what she says about Morrigan. Nothing worth remembering I am sure.

[Sarah1281]

Wynne: You're quite taken with each other, aren't you? (Gently, but with an accusing edge)

PC: You know about Morrigan and me?

Wynne: Well, she's hardly discreet. The way she looks at you, it's as though she's completely forgotten there's anything of you above the waist. (Dry, sarcastic, mocking)

PC: There is a lot more of me below the waist.

Wynne: Oh, sweet Maker! Is a little decorum too much to ask? (Shocked, mortified)

PC: Well, it's true.

Wynne: Moving along now... (Changing the subject quickly) I've noticed your blossoming relationship, and I wanted to ask you where you thought it was going. She is a cunning woman, a maleficar. She will use you for her own ends.

PC: You don't know her. It's not your right to judge.

Wynne: I am telling you what I see, and what my instincts tell me. And even if the feelings you share are genuine, this affair may not be the best thing for either of you. You are a Grey Warden. You have responsibilities which supercede your personal desires.

PC: I can handle my responsibilities and my relationships.

Wynne: Love is ultimately selfish. It demands that one be devoted to a single person, who may fully occupy one's mind and heart, to the exclusion of all else. (Serious and wise) A Grey Warden cannot afford to be selfish. You may be forced to make a choice between saving your love and saving everyone else, and then what would you do? (Tough love, grave. Voice of reason)

PC: Keep your nose out of this.

Wynne: I apologize if I've offended, I was just trying to point out why this affair may be a bad idea. (Apologetic but still pushing the issue)

PC: Morrigan and I can handle whatever comes our way.

Wynne: If you insist. I have given my advice. Do with it what you will.

Her VO notes are pretty much how I think she sees herself but it's definitely not how she comes off here...

[Monica21]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Wynne: You're quite taken with each other, aren't you? (Gently, but with an accusing edge)
PC: You know about Morrigan and me?
Wynne: Well, she's hardly discreet. The way she looks at you, it's as though she's completely forgotten there's anything of you above the waist. (Dry, sarcastic, mocking)
PC: There is a lot more of me below the waist.
Wynne: Oh, sweet Maker! Is a little decorum too much to ask? (Shocked, mortified)
PC: Well, it's true.
Wynne: Moving along now... (Changing the subject quickly) I've noticed your blossoming relationship, and I wanted to ask you where you thought it was going. She is a cunning woman, a maleficar. She will use you for her own ends.
PC: You don't know her. It's not your right to judge.
Wynne: I am telling you what I see, and what my instincts tell me. And even if the feelings you share are genuine, this affair may not be the best thing for either of you. You are a Grey Warden. You have responsibilities which supercede your personal desires.
PC: I can handle my responsibilities and my relationships.
Wynne: Love is ultimately selfish. It demands that one be devoted to a single person, who may fully occupy one's mind and heart, to the exclusion of all else. (Serious and wise) A Grey Warden cannot afford to be selfish. You may be forced to make a choice between saving your love and saving everyone else, and then what would you do? (Tough love, grave. Voice of reason)
PC: Keep your nose out of this.
Wynne: I apologize if I've offended, I was just trying to point out why this affair may be a bad idea. (Apologetic but still pushing the issue)
PC: Morrigan and I can handle whatever comes our way.
Wynne: If you insist. I have given my advice. Do with it what you will.

Her VO notes are pretty much how I think she sees herself but it's definitely not how she comes off here...

Except for the maleficar business, it's almost exactly what she says about Alistair, I think. Thanks for posting the dialogue. Considering how long it's taking me to get through this playthrough, I have no clue if I'll ever get around to playing a male Warden.

[Sarah1281]

Also, with Alistair she says that she thinks he may get hurt and she's concerned about him but for Morrigan she's unhappy that she has a libido.

[ejoslin]

Sarah1281 wrote...

And who says he will marry this "mythical noblewoman who apparently can make him fall out of love with his Warden"? Why can't he just as likely find someone who will agree to a political marriage to keep everything as it is already? Why does he HAVE to fall in love with his wife? This is all speculation. Just as him staying with the Warden mistress is speculation but I see this as closer to his character.
If you read my entire post you will see I don't feel his is the biggest blow up in your face in the game. It's MORRIGAN with her "I wanna Godbaby so give me what I want and I leave you...or don't give me what I want and I'll throw a hissy and still leave you and you get to DIE."

I did read the entire post. What I was responding to was the part I quoted where you completely misrepresented what I was saying by characterizing my view of Alistair as him being fickle and a serial romancer.

This all started because Addai said she thought it would be OOC for him to fall in love with his wife. I think that if he married the right person, it would be perfectly IC for him to fall for her and if he does fall in love with his wife then he will leave you. That's not to say that he WILL marry someone that he could love or that she would be at all interested in love but it very well could happen.

Well, there IS support for your point of view, Sarah.  If Alistair marries your warden for political reasons, he seems to have fallen in love by the time Awakening rolls around.  

[sylvanaerie]

ejoslin wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

And who says he will marry this "mythical noblewoman who apparently can make him fall out of love with his Warden"? Why can't he just as likely find someone who will agree to a political marriage to keep everything as it is already? Why does he HAVE to fall in love with his wife? This is all speculation. Just as him staying with the Warden mistress is speculation but I see this as closer to his character.
If you read my entire post you will see I don't feel his is the biggest blow up in your face in the game. It's MORRIGAN with her "I wanna Godbaby so give me what I want and I leave you...or don't give me what I want and I'll throw a hissy and still leave you and you get to DIE."

I did read the entire post. What I was responding to was the part I quoted where you completely misrepresented what I was saying by characterizing my view of Alistair as him being fickle and a serial romancer.

This all started because Addai said she thought it would be OOC for him to fall in love with his wife. I think that if he married the right person, it would be perfectly IC for him to fall for her and if he does fall in love with his wife then he will leave you. That's not to say that he WILL marry someone that he could love or that she would be at all interested in love but it very well could happen.

Well, there IS support for your point of view, Sarah.  If Alistair marries your warden for political reasons, he seems to have fallen in love by the time Awakening rolls around.  

yea just like Zombie Alistair comes back from doing the WC and runs off with your Warden at the end of Awakenings too *headdesk*  Cmess told me that happened to her one playthrough and I've heard about the "Political wife getting the in love greeting" bug. 

[Addai]

Monica21 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

It's not a modern romance, however. And I also know people who married their high school sweethearts and haven't looked at another person that way ever again. Re. your view of Alistair, saying he "doesn't understand a political marriage" --> clueless and falling for a woman just because she's nice to him --> puppy dog. But naturally you're entitled to your interpretation of the character.

You've entered into an entirely new realm of "slippery slope." I said and meant nothing of the kind. He doesn't understand the nature of a political marriage. He knows nothing about politics. He was raised to be a templar and that's it.

I believe that when he says he loves you and will do whatever it takes to be together that he means it. I also think that's a very simplistic view of how both your lives will play out.

Then it's just as simplistic for a Cousland consort, or for Zevran when you'll have the Crows at your doorstep, or... whatever Leliana's issues are.  LOL  As I've said, I don't dispute at all that it will be complicated.  I just dispute that the likely complication will be Alistair's falling out of love with the Warden, rather than, say, political pressures about him being hooked up with an elf or a mage.  As he says in post-coronation, the thing that makes the kingship stuff seem bearable is that she's with him.

Alistair has grow up around nobility even if he's not one of them, and simply by living in this setting he knows about political marriage.  Honestly I sometimes get the impression people think he's lived under a rock or... was raised by dogs in the Anderfels.  :happy:

Modifié par Addai67, 04 septembre 2010 - 02:49 .

[cmessaz]

Zombistair was by far the worst Alistair ending I've seen.

And seriously, just because I don't see the Alistair mistress ending working out in the long run, doesn't mean I think poorly of Alistair. He's human after all...but in this subject I think there is no changing anyone's mind.

Modifié par cmessaz, 04 septembre 2010 - 02:53 .

[Addai]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

Nothing about the whole apostate business?

Well she tells the PC Morrigan is an amoral maleficar who is using him.  Roland told her to STFU.  He's the only one of my PC's I can do that with...I likes the Morrigan romance even if it is complicated.

Did you also tell her "I do have more below my waist"?  God, I love that exchange.  WHY could we not get something like that with Zevran or Alistair.  I so want to tell Wynne, with a straight face, "I'm with Alistair because he f*cks like a bull" and just watch the brain fry.

Oh wait, this isn't a Wynne hate thread, is it. 

Modifié par Addai67, 04 septembre 2010 - 02:54 .

[cmessaz]

Is there a wynne hate thread? *whistles*

Modifié par cmessaz, 04 septembre 2010 - 02:56 .

[sylvanaerie]

Addai67 wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

It's not a modern romance, however. And I also know people who married their high school sweethearts and haven't looked at another person that way ever again. Re. your view of Alistair, saying he "doesn't understand a political marriage" --> clueless and falling for a woman just because she's nice to him --> puppy dog. But naturally you're entitled to your interpretation of the character.

You've entered into an entirely new realm of "slippery slope." I said and meant nothing of the kind. He doesn't understand the nature of a political marriage. He knows nothing about politics. He was raised to be a templar and that's it.

I believe that when he says he loves you and will do whatever it takes to be together that he means it. I also think that's a very simplistic view of how both your lives will play out.

Then it's just as simplistic for a Cousland consort, or for Zevran when you'll have the Crows at your doorstep, or... whatever Leliana's issues are.  LOL  As I've said, I don't dispute at all that it will be complicated.  I just dispute that the likely complication will be Alistair's falling out of love with the Warden, rather than, say, political pressures about him being hooked up with an elf or a mage.  As he says in post-coronation, the thing that makes the kingship stuff seem bearable is that she's with him.

Alistair has grow up around nobility even if he's not one of them, and simply by living in this setting he knows about political marriage.  Honestly I sometimes get the impression people think he's lived under a rock or... was raised by dogs in the Anderfels.  :happy:

Flying dogs.  Strict Andrastians too.

[Burritos]

Romance both Leliana and Morrigan, then marry Anora. One drama packed playthrough.

[sylvanaerie]

Addai67 wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

Nothing about the whole apostate business?

Well she tells the PC Morrigan is an amoral maleficar who is using him.  Roland told her to STFU.  He's the only one of my PC's I can do that with...I likes the Morrigan romance even if it is complicated.

Did you also tell her "I do have more below my waist"?  God, I love that exchange.  WHY could we not get something like that with Zevran or Alistair.  I so want to tell Wynne, with a straight face, "I'm with Alistair because he f*cks like a bull" and just watch the brain fry.

Oh wait, this isn't a Wynne hate thread, is it. 

Yes he did and told her to mind her own business.  She didn't like that but since my characters usually choose the 'goody two shoes' path getting her approval isn't hard.  I can afford a little RP leeway and Roland would be a DIAF you old busybody type of guy.

She does tell good griffon stories though.

[Sarah1281]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

I wonder if the Warden's Keep DLC doesn't add some new opportunities to the whole King Alistair/mistress scenario. If Avernus found a way to dodge his Calling for as long as he has, who's to say he can't find a way to alleviate some Taint-induced fertility issues? And the Warden can - and is, during Awakening - be made a noblewoman, so with the heir-thing out of the way, she and Alistair could even be able to get married. Provided Avernus manages to deliver, that is - and he probably would not like the prospect of spending what he has of his life left doing that, either way.

If Awakening is to be trusted, however, Alistair eventually leaves the royal court to be with the Warden. Metagaming, I'd just spare myself the trouble and have Anora queened from the get-go.

I don't think that an heir with an elf or dwarf mother would be accepted while someone with a human mage mother (assuming that they had no magic themselves) would have a very hard time being accepted as the next King or Queen and that's the whole reason Alistair needs an heir.

[cmessaz]

-.- Well, according to the Awakening slideshow my mage went to the side of a dead Alistair (died defeating the blight) so, I don't think going off the end of Awakening is a good idea.

Modifié par cmessaz, 04 septembre 2010 - 03:51 .

[Sarah1281]

Normally, of course not. But this isn't just an elf or a dwarf (can dwarves and humans even have children?) we're talking about, this is the Warden and the Hero of Ferelden and what have you, and anything race-related seems to become much of a non-issue with her. I often forgot that this setting is supposed to be racist, because everyone, with exception of only a few, treat me with outmost respect and addresses me formally as either "Warden" or "my lady", wants my opinion on everything and relies on my advice and judgement, bann Teagan nearly throws himself at my PC regardless of what she is, and Alistair only lists lack of nobility and the issues regarding heir-making as why they can't be married.

And the fact that if you try then Alistair says 'don't be silly. An elf/dwarf/mage can't be Queen.' It doesn't matter how awesome YOU are. They still don't want your non-approved blood getting into the Theirin line. If it were really so easy as making the Warden nobility than Alistair could have just accepted you trying to marry him at the Landsmeet like he does for the HNF and named your the new Teyrna of Gwaren right then.

[cmessaz]

Being hero of Ferelden doesn't help if the pc takes Bann of the alienage (I mean it does a little, but the outcome is still not good). I seriously doubt she would be accepted as queen.

[CalJones]

Queen - humans and dwarves make half dwarves. They are very rare - there are none in Origins.

[errant_knight]

CalJones wrote...

The Alistair romance for anyone other than a Cousland who doesn't mind if Alistair plays hide the sausage with Morrigan to save his skin.
For mages, other races, anyone who has any inclination to show Loghain mercy and anyone who objects to Morrigan's hellspawn, it's not going to end well.

You make it sound like he sneaks away to do it behing your back, rather than you having to convince him to do it much against his will and better judgement.