68 réponses à ce sujet

[upsettingshorts]

Barquiel wrote...

translation

Exactly!

If my Shepard cares about Liara, he's concerned and wants to help.  But Liara made it clear she needs space, and time.  I respect that.   "Finish what you have to finish.  I'll be here" and such.

[Aedan_Cousland]

I don't think cheating is the right word to use, as Shepard died and it had been two years since you've eveen seen your ME1 LI. Death tends to end relationships, and no doubt that is also true in the ME universe where no one outside of the Lazarus Project ever really expected Shepard to return. When Shepard runs into his ME1 LI in ME2 things also don't exactly pick up where they left off. Whether  with Liara, Ash or Kaiden in ME1, Shepard gets the cold shoulder in ME2. With Liara it is a little more clear that she still has feelings for Shepard, but she still gives no indication that she is interested in rekindling a relationship with Shepard. In fact the signals she gives hints at the opposite.

So, I don't think Shepard moving on and havin a relationship with someone else in ME2 is cheating. In fact I think it is far more realistic if your ME1 LI had a relationship or two, whether casual or serious, after your death. After all as far as they knew you were dead and gone for good, and who goes two years without dating?

That being said I don't think it would be unrealistic for Liara to be jealous or lash out at Shepard for hooking up with someone new, even though it wasn't cheating. People are often unreasonable and sometimes possessive, especially when it comes to matters of the heart, and I'm sure that would be true for Asari as well.

[upsettingshorts]

Well if we're talking about "realism" then if I'm Commander Shepard the last thing I'm doing is starting a sexual relationship with any of my crew. That's just asking for all kinds of trouble, not to mention something of an abuse of power - especially in the case of Kaidan and Ashley in ME1.

But that kind of realism is no fun.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 03 septembre 2010 - 06:15 .

[crimzontearz]

Barquiel wrote...

translation
She doesn't worship the ground my glorious Shepard walks on...she can rot on Ilium.

Tali could accompany Veetor back to the migrant fleet and join Shep. She said NO.
She thinks the mission on Haelstrom is more important than your mission. Yeah, big difference here.

Garrus returns to the Normandy because he lost his whole team. Without Sidonis' betrayel...would he just abandon his team? I don't think so. All ME1 squadmates moved on.

and yet only Liara/Kaiden/Ash do not end up on the team.

You cannot assume Garrus would have said no because the occasion does not Arise and ultimately Tali and Garrus end up on the team willingly. You do not know if Tali knew her mission was going to be too long to be of any aid for Shepard.....for that matter people should stop arguing with "what if" and look at the end results. Tali and Garrus follow shepard......Liara Ash and Kaiden do not. Period, those are the facts. It is not a matter of worshipping the ground where Shepard walks it's about priorities and where they are placed. Liara decided her priorities do not involve shepard at the time......fine.....then I should not feel bad at all about moving on.

if then we want to put it on the "their relationship was not that serious in ME1" then.....uh.....fine, she moved on and so did Shepard I just hope that Bioware does not impede the developement of ME2 love interests in ME3 by just cutting them out or putting them in a cameo role........which is sadly what I think will happen 

[Lord Coake]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Well if we're talking about "realism" then if I'm Commander Shepard the last thing I'm doing is starting a sexual relationship with any of my crew. That's just asking for all kinds of trouble, not to mention something of an abuse of power - especially in the case of Kaidan and Ashley in ME1.

But that kind of realism is no fun.

Actually, in my mind, that's probably what made Shepard at least open to Liara in the beginning.  No matter your starting background, Shep endsup with a mountain of responsibility dropped on her shoulders, no time to adjust to her new duties and power, and gets tossed into the general melee with a Council Approved get out of jail free card.  She sees and commits horrors, fights overwhelming odds, sees the people she's supposed to be protecting get killed in droves, loses friends, and has the very people who put her in charge of hunting down Saren outright undermining her to score a political victory.

Through all that, Shepard hos nobody to really lean on.  She was the Normandy's XO, so that was the de facto position she held for Anderson; the Captain's alter ego and public face.  The one he reveals problems to as asks for both input and actual judgement for his actions.  Shepard has noone like that, and she really can't open up to Kaiden or Ashley, as both already have their own duties, and because of their respective ranks, neither can be Shepards confidant.

Liara though, is an outsider.  She proves herself to be perfeptive, intelligent and charismatic, if a bit cutely naive.  Brave as a lion (she does stay to fight, after all) and willing to go through hell for the rest of the crew.  As somone who's not military, she has not rank or status to get in the way, and shows an affection for Shepard that other crew can't show, even if they wanted to.

Liara is safe.  That's how I see the ball getting rolling between her and Shepard at first.  Later on, a relationship forms from it.

As an aside, such a friendship (and then relationship) is one of the reasons being the XO is often a very hard and thankless job.  It's easy to grow to either love or hate a person when they rely on you as not only a conscience, but a planning and oftentimes emotional sounding board.  As important a skilled and cpabale leader is, he or she needs a stupendous second to make themselves really shine.

[Aedan_Cousland]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Well if we're talking about "realism" then if I'm Commander Shepard the last thing I'm doing is starting a sexual relationship with any of my crew. That's just asking for all kinds of trouble, not to mention something of an abuse of power - especially in the case of Kaidan and Ashley in ME1.

But that kind of realism is no fun.

Fraternization, though frowned upon and a punishable offense, goes on in the real world military as well. So it isn't necessarily unrealistic for Shepard to have a romantic relationship with someone in the crew. It could be out of character, but whether or not it is in character or out of character depends on how the individual player roleplays their Shepard.

Modifié par Aedan_Cousland, 03 septembre 2010 - 06:36 .

[upsettingshorts]

Oh I don't deny it exists or that it's common.

But to deliberately engage in it before/during a critical mission just feels like asking for trouble. Though only one of the LI's is downright stupid: Romancing Tali before the suicide mission. Yeah, let's risk the health of a key mission specialist on the eve of battle! That's a responsible command decision!

And Lord Coake that's almost verbatim what my thought process for picking Liara was when I first played Mass Effect 1.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 03 septembre 2010 - 06:39 .

[crimzontearz]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Oh I don't deny it exists or that it's common.

But to deliberately engage in it before/during a critical mission just feels like asking for trouble. Though only one of the LI's is downright stupid: Romancing Tali before the suicide mission. Yeah, let's risk the health of a key mission specialist on the eve of battle! That's a responsible command decision.

And Lord Coake that's almost verbatim what my thought process for picking Liara was when I first played Mass Effect 1.

uh...so is romancing Thane, I mean what if the hallucinations kick in while she is in the collector's base???

[upsettingshorts]

Then consumating that LI before the suicide mission is downright irresponsible too. I just never romanced him so I didn't know that.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 03 septembre 2010 - 06:43 .

[crimzontearz]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Then consumating that LI before the suicide mission is downright irresponsible too. I just never romanced him so I didn't know that.

well Tali did say her immuno Boosters would prevent her from getting really sick, since they got together mere hours before the mission you have to assume she was confident they would have arrested the reaction till after the mission.

same for Thane and his LSD laced skin 

[upsettingshorts]

It's still a silly, needless risk. They can bork after the mission provided they both survive.

[Rive Caedo]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

It's still a silly, needless risk. They can bork after the mission provided they both survive.

While, from an external perspective, we know that it's quite easy to make everyone survive --- the characters themselves are assuming they aren't coming back.

Responsibility and level headedness often are forgotten in that situation.

Modifié par Rive Caedo, 03 septembre 2010 - 07:05 .

[MaaZeus]

Barquiel wrote...

Tali could accompany Veetor back to the migrant fleet and join Shep. She said NO.
She thinks the mission on Haelstrom is more important than your mission. Yeah, big difference here.

As you said, Shepard isnt the center of the universe. Tali really thought Shepard was dead (well, he was but... never mind), and has been an active member of Migrant fleef for last 2 years. She had her ORDERS which she had accepted BEFORE finding out Shepard is alive. You'd expect her to discard her duty? She did promise that once the mission is over, she should be free and will come with you. That is closest thing to YES as is possible in her current situation. Of course she COULD give a finger to whole migrant fleet and squad assigned to her, but honestly that doesnt paint a very good picture of her to both you and rest of the Quarians. So no, she cannot be compared to Liara.





Liara's case is bit difficult. Out of the old romances, betraying her in my eyes is definetly cheating. She searched for your body and gave it to Cerberus BECAUSE SHE COULDNT LET YOU GO! So obviously she cares for Shepard a lot, and still does. But now that Shep is back, why is she so obsessed in finding his friend and Shadow Broker is mindboggling. Hopefully this gets answered in the DLC with better detail.

Modifié par MaaZeus, 03 septembre 2010 - 08:50 .

[tonnactus]

A catfight doesnt fit to liaras personality.

[MaaZeus]

tonnactus wrote...

A catfight doesnt fit to liaras personality.

Who knows? Usually they are the result of very extreme emotional collisions. Who knows how this generally laidback scientist "bookworm" girl reacts in these situations? It might be violent, she has already shown that she is very wel capable of that  or atleast thinknig of that ("flay you alive with my mind", remember?)

[FenrisDeSolar]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

So let me get this straight.

* Shepard and Liara meet.
* They explore a mutual attraction, hook up before a big mission because who knows what might happen.
* A month passes between the end of ME1 and the cutscene at the beginning of ME2.

So Shepard and Liara were in a relationship that lasted a little over a month, the former dies and two years later you expect the latter to drop everything and join your quest?

I just want to point out that the ME1 romances don't start when you "hook up" with your LI. It's the build-up which is your actual relationship. The sex is just when your relationship becomes an intimate relationship, and not purely romantic, if that makes any sense whatsoever. What I'm trying to say is that the actual relationship is longer than a month, but they've only been bunk-buddies for a short period of time. 

But given their circumstances, and considering human behaviour as influenced by stress, they probably got jiggy several times between Ilos and the Collector attack (at least, I'd like to think so,) and sex is supposed to deepen feelings between people, so I'm pretty sure they could've shared something quite intense.

After all "Love without Sex is still the most efficient kind of hell known to man." I believe Porter said that. >:]

[crimzontearz]

MaaZeus wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Tali could accompany Veetor back to the migrant fleet and join Shep. She said NO.
She thinks the mission on Haelstrom is more important than your mission. Yeah, big difference here.

As you said, Shepard isnt the center of the universe. Tali really thought Shepard was dead (well, he was but... never mind), and has been an active member of Migrant fleef for last 2 years. She had her ORDERS which she had accepted BEFORE finding out Shepard is alive. You'd expect her to discard her duty? She did promise that once the mission is over, she should be free and will come with you. That is closest thing to YES as is possible in her current situation. Of course she COULD give a finger to whole migrant fleet and squad assigned to her, but honestly that doesnt paint a very good picture of her to both you and rest of the Quarians. So no, she cannot be compared to Liara.





Liara's case is bit difficult. Out of the old romances, betraying her in my eyes is definetly cheating. She searched for your body and gave it to Cerberus BECAUSE SHE COULDNT LET YOU GO! So obviously she cares for Shepard a lot, and still does. But now that Shep is back, why is she so obsessed in finding his friend and Shadow Broker is mindboggling. Hopefully this gets answered in the DLC with better detail.

Modifié par crimzontearz, 03 septembre 2010 - 10:08 .

[crimzontearz]

mmmmm, apparently quoting does not work for me today. I was saying that I agree but I am curious about how they will handle it all after the bs they threw at us with Liara.

[MassEffect762]

I don't see anything coming from this other than a "break up and then we'll talk".



I don't see bioware spending resources for a catfight.(multiple VAs involved=$$$)



I don't see bioware pulling an epic three-way ala JE.(multiple VAs involved=$$$)

[FenrisDeSolar]

MassEffect762 wrote...

I don't see bioware pulling an epic three-way ala JE.(multiple VAs involved=$$$)

Not even if we ask nicely? >_O

[archurban]

cat fight? Jack is only one who caused this ****ing problem. otherwise, nobody wants to fight if they have brain. more likely negotiation.

[AresXX7]

nelly21 wrote...

I do have one particularly rengadish vanguard Shep. So I decided to finally dust him off and continue his story. 

Douche Sheperd (that's his name) .

lol

If only there were a program, that allowed the game to say Shep's first name. 

[BigGuy28]

crimzontearz wrote...


look here's how I see it.

in the face of the fact you are about to enter a mission  from which NO ONE has ever returned she says "oh I cannot, I have other things to do...places to go.....people to kill". That is not what a lover/life partner does...at all....EVER. Bioware seems to think her "excuse" should be ok, logical and understandable for us to hang on to her but to me it sounds like a slap in the face.

Imagine telling your girlfriend "hon...I am having a cancerous growth removed tomorrow, chances are I might not survive.....will you be there for me?"

and her answer "you know dear, I'm sorry but I have to go and kick someone's *** tomorrow before they leave town....but hey if you survive I'll be here. Oh and while you are out would you mind  finding out what her address is?."


no
no
oh HELL NO

that is as good to me as a full fledged break up and for bioware to aribtrarily have Liara decide the degree of the "cheating" is just ridiculous

I love this post so much, if I could make love to it I would. You are the only other person that I've seen that feels pretty much the same way I do. There are other issues I have with Liara beyond that but not going to get into that right now. After the meeting with her I decided that she had changed too much, obviously didn't have the same feelings for Shepard anymore and I moved on to someone else.

[MrnDvlDg161]

BigGuy28 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...


look here's how I see it.

in the face of the fact you are about to enter a mission  from which NO ONE has ever returned she says "oh I cannot, I have other things to do...places to go.....people to kill". That is not what a lover/life partner does...at all....EVER. Bioware seems to think her "excuse" should be ok, logical and understandable for us to hang on to her but to me it sounds like a slap in the face.

Imagine telling your girlfriend "hon...I am having a cancerous growth removed tomorrow, chances are I might not survive.....will you be there for me?"

and her answer "you know dear, I'm sorry but I have to go and kick someone's *** tomorrow before they leave town....but hey if you survive I'll be here. Oh and while you are out would you mind  finding out what her address is?."


no
no
oh HELL NO

that is as good to me as a full fledged break up and for bioware to aribtrarily have Liara decide the degree of the "cheating" is just ridiculous

I love this post so much, if I could make love to it I would. You are the only other person that I've seen that feels pretty much the same way I do. There are other issues I have with Liara beyond that but not going to get into that right now. After the meeting with her I decided that she had changed too much, obviously didn't have the same feelings for Shepard anymore and I moved on to someone else.

It was a double slap on my part --- the Ashley thing made me pretty
bitter --- so when I came to Illum and I had word that Liara was doing
well on it, I was like ---   Alright! My Li from the last game ---
she'll give me support!" 

Racing over to that nice office of
hers.... only to recieve an even bitter-cold shoulder from her.  So what
was Shepard to do... he pissed on at  Horizon after saving  Ashley....
he gets side swiped at Illum from Liara... its not toooooo far from
someone's imagine or perhaps a logical step of common sense that the man
may indeed reach for the others on his crew whom are going on a
dangerous mission with him.

In my own view I said... ok ....
so... the past people in my Shepards life just told me to go 
@#$@#$@# my self and oh by the way....  Could you do these 45 things for
us... it would really streamline things here at the office!  

Hell no.

Damn
strait I mingled with either  Tali, Miranda, or Kelly.  In fact it made
more sense for him to attach himself to the woman that was basically
operating and patching his burnt up/crispy butt to life  ( Miranda)  in
that same observation.

I wonder if people realise that Cerebus
and TIM gave more support and " love"  to Shepard than 
Anderson/Ashley/Liara combined?  Hell --- Zheed gave more respect to
Shepard than his old crew! 

I say --- move on and don't blink and
eye... no one acts that way. It was an obvious blunder in
writing...OR as someone astutuely said --- men were writing this part of
the story instead of a woman's intuition. It is indeed...obvious.

Modifié par MrnDvlDg161, 04 septembre 2010 - 12:51 .

[crimzontearz]

theh sad part is that Bioware may very well sideline the ME2 love interests in the transition to ME3 basically leaving us with a pissed off Liara who resents is for moving on (no matter the ****** and BS we took from her of course) and no way to deepen the relationships we built in ME2