131 réponses à ce sujet

[jermungand]

Shepard77 wrote...

jermungand wrote...

Shepard77 wrote...

 Well, OP, I do see where you're coming from here.

However, have you thought about the possibility that Morrigan speaks the way she does not in spite of her isolated upbringing, but because of it?

I've always been under the impression that Morrigan's dialect was more akin to how the people of Ferelden spoke in the past, while what we hear most commonly in the game is a more modern variation of the same dialect. If we assume that much of Morrgan's upbringing was spent isolated and lost in Felemeth's old books and spell books, (where this dialect would be common) then its not a stretch at all to assume that she would adopt the speech of what she is most familiar with.

Freshmen year of college I met a guy who was home schooled his whole life. Nice guy, really smart. He spoke almost perfect english but he never used slang or any modernized variations of words or lingo. It was kind of odd hearing him speak, almost an accent unto itself. I imagine Morrigan in a similar circumstance.

tl;dr Morrigan's dialect is how the people of Ferelden once spoke. She learned to speak like that from reading old books from Flemeth's past. 

Wow. You're story about that dude has really gotten me thinking.

I don't really understand what you're saying about her dialect though.  Her dialect (variation upon the language itself), is identical to the English everybody speaks.  Her accent is what I've been on to.  That can't be read off the page of a book (if it were, I would definitely have an urge to go find a book written by Patrick Stewart).


What did that dude sound like?

Glad it got you thinking.

Actually I believe it is her dialect you've been on to. She has an english accent the same as the majority of Ferelden. Its her tendency to string words together, sharply pronounce each syllable, and her use of words like tis, thus, and though in common speech that makes her seem so posh and aristocratic, not her accent. 

So no, an accent cant be learned from a book but a dialect certainly can. If I grew reading nothing but Shakespeare its safe to say my speech pattern and word choice would be very different from someone who grew up on nothing but Orwell.  

Dialect is a regional or social variety of a language distinguished by either its grammar, pronunciation, or vocabulary. Especially a variety of speech differing from the standard literary language or speech pattern . Her accent in and of itself is very similar to the way other characters speak but its her unique dialect that seperates her. Like cockney to the british. Accents refer only to pronunciation. 

Unless you're trying to say that Morrigan doesn't have a British accent?

I am referring exclusively to her accent.  The "tis" and "thus" don't actually present a problem to me at all.  The dialect isn't aristocratic, it's just old, and that makes complete sense to me.

Come to think of it, this must be where a lot of people are misinterpreting me.

[jermungand]

SmokePants wrote...

This isn't even about regional accents, this is about diction and elocution. Morrigan chooses and strings words together in a manner that is reminiscent of someone who has read a lot of old books.

Whether she read them because her parents were wealthy and paid for an advanced education or because her quasi-immortal mother was forcing her to learn arcane spells doesn't really matter, does it?

She comes by her condescension honestly.

No, it is not her diction that I find so strange.  This seems to be where you've been misunderstanding me, I'm relieved to finally discover.

[Nightwriter]

I find it curious how aggressively people responded to the OP. Gosh...

Anyway, Morrigan simply strikes me as someone who learned how to speak from reading old books and stories. Which were probably the only things she had access to in her isolation.

[AlanC9]

Well, the OP's first post didn't make a heck of a lot of sense. As he admitted, the thread title's blatantly wrong. And the argument, well, isn't one. He doesn't put forth any theory as to what Morrigan should have sounded like. Why is an upper-class accent any worse than any other accent she might have had?



Post ill-considered nonsense and you'll get a beating even if you're poking around the edges of a real issue -- which, in this case, is why Morrigan and Flemeth don't sound more alike.

[jermungand]

AlanC9 wrote...

Well, the OP's first post didn't make a heck of a lot of sense. As he admitted, the thread title's blatantly wrong. And the argument, well, isn't one. He doesn't put forth any theory as to what Morrigan should have sounded like. Why is an upper-class accent any worse than any other accent she might have had?

Post ill-considered nonsense and you'll get a beating even if you're poking around the edges of a real issue -- which, in this case, is why Morrigan and Flemeth don't sound more alike.

Really, I don't see what's so hard about this.

I'm here to have a discussion, but people like you seem to think I'm here to be cross-examined like a lying witness.

If you can't behave and contain your urge to pounce on me, you should should not be here on my thread.  Leave.

Modifié par jermungand, 06 septembre 2010 - 11:00 .

[Nightwriter]

I don't get it. The question made sense to me. She grew up in the wilderness, so why does she talk like a sophisticated aristocrat?

Now, if this is somehow intended as a slam on Morrigan, I can understand how people would be angry, but I thought it was nothing more than an observance of an inconsistency. I could be wrong.

[TJPags]

My theory is pretty simple, and explains her accent easily - she learned to speak from her mother. He mother, before becomming an abomination, was a merchant's wife (high class person in a medieval type world) then the wife (or mistress, I forget the details) of a nobleman (again, high class).



Stands to reason she would naturally have a high class (so to speak) accent. Stands to reason that her daughter, learning to speak from her mother, would pronounce words similarly - thus, her accent.



No, Flemeth doesn't have this type of accent when we see her with the Wardens - but then, you don't necessarily speak the same to a child, or someone you're teaching, as you do in what seems (to Flemeth, IMO) a more casual situation. In other words, I feel she's "dumbing herself down" to the Warden's level, to make them more confortable.

[NRG-OptimaL]

morrigan's voice never did make any sense to me.

i imagined her having a voice like the crazy vampire lady from blade trinity (the one with the front-bum fangs)

edit: warning - SWEARS OMG

like that.

Modifié par NRG-OptimaL, 06 septembre 2010 - 11:38 .

[Bane of Revenants]

Morrigan did sound rather aristocratic for a swamp witch.



And in the camp referring to panties as "unmentionables". Rather prudish of her and and out of character. lol

[AlanC9]

jermungand wrote...
If you can't behave and contain your urge to pounce on me, you should should not be here on my thread.  Leave.

That's not how it works. You get to make a thread, and within the TOS people get to respond however they damn well please. Go ahead and PM a mod if you think folks are exceeding the guidelines; I think Eurypterid's up ATM.

As for the topic, what should a "swamp witch" sound like, and, more importantly, why should she sound that way?

Modifié par AlanC9, 07 septembre 2010 - 12:43 .

[AlanC9]

TJPags wrote...

My theory is pretty simple, and explains her accent easily - she learned to speak from her mother. He mother, before becomming an abomination, was a merchant's wife (high class person in a medieval type world) then the wife (or mistress, I forget the details) of a nobleman (again, high class).

Stands to reason she would naturally have a high class (so to speak) accent. Stands to reason that her daughter, learning to speak from her mother, would pronounce words similarly - thus, her accent.

No, Flemeth doesn't have this type of accent when we see her with the Wardens - but then, you don't necessarily speak the same to a child, or someone you're teaching, as you do in what seems (to Flemeth, IMO) a more casual situation. In other words, I feel she's "dumbing herself down" to the Warden's level, to make them more confortable.

I'll back this; though it might be an exercise in fanwankery, it's consistent with everything seen in the game.

[Brockololly]

AlanC9 wrote...

TJPags wrote...

My theory is pretty simple, and explains her accent easily - she learned to speak from her mother. He mother, before becomming an abomination, was a merchant's wife (high class person in a medieval type world) then the wife (or mistress, I forget the details) of a nobleman (again, high class).

Stands to reason she would naturally have a high class (so to speak) accent. Stands to reason that her daughter, learning to speak from her mother, would pronounce words similarly - thus, her accent.

No, Flemeth doesn't have this type of accent when we see her with the Wardens - but then, you don't necessarily speak the same to a child, or someone you're teaching, as you do in what seems (to Flemeth, IMO) a more casual situation. In other words, I feel she's "dumbing herself down" to the Warden's level, to make them more confortable.

I'll back this; though it might be an exercise in fanwankery, it's consistent with everything seen in the game.

Yeah, I think Gaider basically mentioned this thread in one of the chats from the weekend. Its not complicated- Morrigan speaks the way she does because she was raised by Flemeth who also speaks in a similar manner- maybe not the exact accent, but the manner of speaking is close.

[ciaweth]

Remember that an age old witch/demon/whatever like Flemeth is skilled at deception and has to fit in among all sorts of types of people. It's natural that she'd teach that sort of thing to her daughter. We don't even know what language(s) Flemeth and Morrigan spoke when alone together, much less what accent would be appropriate for a witch of the wilds.



Anyway, if the accent is a problem, the fault isn't Claudia Black's--she can pretty much do any accent, as shown by her turn as Matriarch Aethyta in Mass Effect--it'd be the voice director's issue, because he or she allowed or encouraged that accent.

[JayTheWolf]

 I don't think Claudia did such a bad job. But I agree with you on the "noble" language from Morrigan. 
She was quite educated for being a Witch of the Wilds. I never really noticed it until now. 
Perhaps Flemeth taught her to speak like that to help qualm the templars? Morrigan was quite the seductress, and certainly the manipulator. 

[AngryFrozenWater]

That crazy witch-mom lived long enough to educate herself and any of her daughters. Her writing even interested the Circle. Witchcraft requires some training and she gave the impression of doing that rather well. She was able to morph herself into a high dragon (instead of a petty rat). Those things don't mean she's sane, but they do give me the impression she isn't stupid either. I think Flemeth's and Morrigan's accents reflect that rather well.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 07 septembre 2010 - 01:07 .

[jermungand]

AlanC9 wrote...

jermungand wrote...
If you can't behave and contain your urge to pounce on me, you should should not be here on my thread.  Leave.

That's not how it works. You get to make a thread, and within the TOS people get to respond however they damn well please. Go ahead and PM a mod if you think folks are exceeding the guidelines; I think Eurypterid's up ATM.

As for the topic, what should a "swamp witch" sound like, and, more importantly, why should she sound that way?

Just because the rules of where you are don't specifically restrict you from being a jerk, you believe that entitles you to be one?


Well there you go everyone, I guess mothers don't necessarily have all that much influence on their children after all.

Modifié par jermungand, 07 septembre 2010 - 03:32 .

[SmokePants]

jermungand wrote...

No, it is not her diction that I find so strange.  This seems to be where you've been misunderstanding me, I'm relieved to finally discover.

Honestly, I don't think you have a good handle on what you're trying to say. You went from talking about high-born, noble, "posh" manners of speaking to talking about regional accents and inflections. Your argument mutated.

There is NOTHING consistent about accents in DA. They are all over the map. It's not important. Think of the English we hear them speaking as a translation or interpretation of sorts. They probably aren't actually speaking English when there isn't even an England in Thedas.

Purely as an accent, Claudia Black's Morrigan is neutral and inoffensive. It is her choice of somewhat archaic words, sentence structure, and cadence that make her unique among the other speaking characters.

Modifié par SmokePants, 07 septembre 2010 - 05:00 .

[Arch Axiom]

Personally I've come to like the accent on Morrigan just the way it is. Perhaps It's a bit odd/unusual for someone raised largely in isolation from others, but I agree with those who've questioned why an Australian/British necessarily means the speaker must be "nobility/civilized". This isn't history, it's fantasy. The unexpected accent adds uniqueness to an already unique character. And I simply don't see it as implausible as some do.

[Esbatty]

mochen wrote...

Morrigan sounded perfect to me. Just imagine her with a south london chav accent and you'll soon appreciate what a great job Claudia Black did.

*thinks*

Now does England do mail order brides? Is "charver" accent on the check box for said wives?

Modifié par Esbatty, 12 octobre 2010 - 08:13 .

[adriano_c]

They could have given her a scouser accent and people would still defend "the artistic choice", lol.

[Si-Shen]

I dunno, the voice fit her really well actually, and as for where did she learn it? We get exposed to Flemith in only one way, the way she wants to appear to us, the PC, whose to say thats how she is all the time?



Frankly, its more important to me, that the voice fits the nature of the character, then a "reality of being raised away from society" point of view.

[Dark Lilith]

I loved her voice and there could be a myriad of reasons why Flemeth taught her to speak so. To fit in better perhaps!

[darkshadow136]

Dark Lilith wrote...

I loved her voice and there could be a myriad of reasons why Flemeth taught her to speak so. To fit in better perhaps!

I agree Claudia Black did an awesome job doing the voice acting. Her voice gave Morrigans character the mystique and sultry attitude exactly the direction she was wriiten.