1313 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

Count Viceroy wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

And compared to DAO, these proportions are absurd.  That is why there is outrage.  I know when many heard there was going to be a unique female rig, we were pleased because there wouldn't be the baseball mitt hands and linebacker shoulders.  Who knew that what was meant was that the female models would be even less realistic.

We aren't playing a real life simulator. It's still fantasy. I don't want my mage or thief to look like a buff fighter. I
certainly don't look like that and I'm pretty sure most people don't either. Also pretty sure that no one believes that people really look like that. At the end of the day, its a game, some artistic liberties are to be expected. 

I take it that "artistic" means silly and cheap in your mind.

Artistic portrayals of women can be very beautiful, and usually do show an idealized body.  When the idealization starts moving into porn territory, that's when you can stop calling it "art".  Unless you want me to point and laugh at you, too.

DAO was a game where it felt like you could take playing a female PC seriously.  If this is what they're going to look like in DA2, not so much.

Modifié par Addai67, 04 septembre 2010 - 04:59 .

[Saibh]

TheMadCat wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Aigyl wrote...

As far as I understand it, Dragon Age 2 isn't aiming for realism - it's a story being told by an unreliable narrator who's prone to exaggeration with a new art style that is less realistic than Origin's.

But it's the female model that is this way, not the story. Any female we might see outside of the story (such as Cassandra) will also have them.

Regardless, there is a difference between the exaggerated beginning Varric part and the real part. Those screenshots are from the "real" part.

If I'm not mistaken though the whole game is told through Varric, meaning even the "real" parts aren't necessarily going to be 100% real.

I believe the devs have told us that everything we see that is not laid out as being an exaggeration is real; the things we play are real as they happen, even if Varric isn't narrating correcting. Possibly there will be other prologue-type bits, who knows?

EDIT: Also, if I had to guess, I'd say all of the story-telling happens right before the climax. Cassandra might be a boss or companion, who knows? Afterwards we enter the present.

Modifié par Saibh, 04 septembre 2010 - 04:59 .

[Ziggy]

Addai67 wrote...

Count Viceroy wrote...
You don't hear the men go on and on about how every male in gaming is built like heman regardless of profession.

I think every thread where this topic has come up has had someone try to explain this, but let me be the one to enlighten you.

The idealized male is powerful. He looks like he could actually be doing the things you do as a fighter in games like this. He is much more realistic in that than the couch potato that is probably sitting behind the screen controlling him.

The idealized woman (though I can't imagine why some of you think that's attractive) could barely stand up, with the huge breasts, pronounced S curve and tiny waist. Let alone be leaping over enemies and wielding a sword. She exists solely to be ogled at by the couch potato men that are sitting behind the screen.

That is the difference. Don't make me explain it again.

This.
The idealised male looks strong, capable and independent.
The idealised female looks weak, incapable and with ridiculously out of proportion breasts.

It's not very nice to think this is what many men find most appealing in women. I want to be strong capable and independent too.

Modifié par Em23, 04 septembre 2010 - 05:01 .

[Dave of Canada]

filaminstrel wrote...

Cassandra, being an important NPC in her own right and (presumably) not recruitable, probably has unique armor and is free to have any size the artists desire, much like Flemeth.

Other than her, I'm not sure how many of the game's women we'll see in the "real world."

But the entire story is about Cassandra trying to find Hawke, I doubt the game would end right there where she finds out where Hawke is. Most likely, the ending will play out as a climax and the story was just leading up to it. Hawke and friends would have to have reduced breast size models for a short scene in the ending (to prove that Varric was exaggerating) or they'll still have the EE cups.

[Deathispink]

But why can't we be strong, capable, AND have large breasts?

[Aristorum]

For all we know, Varric might just be exaggerating.



In all seriousness, I'm a little disappointed the breasts are so large, but I don't particularly care enough to really argue either side.

[Lord_Valandil]

Another boob thread...Amazing.

[Count Viceroy]

Addai67 wrote...

I take it that "artistic" means silly and cheap in your mind.

Artistic portrayals of women can be very beautiful, and usually do show an idealized body.  When the idealization starts moving into porn territory, that's when you can stop calling it "art".  Unless you want me to point and laugh at you, too.

DAO was a game where it felt like you could take playing a female PC seriously.  If this is what they're going to look like in DA2, not so much.

Silly and cheap according to you. And honestly, whatever my definition of art and porn is, It's rather irrelevant, I'm not designing the game. It's bioware vision, and as Stanley woo put it.

" proportions are a matter of artistic style. The fantasy genre has long has the well-muscled man and the buxom woman; they are idealized figures."

It comes down to the individual artist.

Personally I don't care for the big breasts at all, in fact I think it looks silly, but it comes with the territory of a fantasy game and I'm fine with that. I'll just mod in something to my liking later.

Modifié par Count Viceroy, 04 septembre 2010 - 05:09 .

[SithLordExarKun]

Its a fantasy game...... Why are people complaining about BOOBS? Nobody is complaining about Magic "cuz it aint exist in t#h real w0rld!!" because its a fantasy.

Modifié par SithLordExarKun, 04 septembre 2010 - 05:06 .

[Dave of Canada]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Its a fantasy game......

Realism still exists in a fantasy game.

[Hollingdale]

Just wait until they reveal male Hawkes penis, you'll be all over it and no one will even remember Lady Hawkes boobs.

Modifié par Hollingdale, 04 septembre 2010 - 05:06 .

[Saibh]

Deathispink wrote...

But why can't we be strong, capable, AND have large breasts?

First of all, I'm fine with the model existing, but it's a very rare and very idealized model that doesn't belong on every single woman. I would prefer a medium, if you would.

Second of all, there's large, and then there's that. That's not D-Cup large, that's like, EE cup large. Or more. Ivy-freaking-Valentine large.

Third of all, large breasts on a thicker frame that wasn't built to support them cause back problems, as well as makes it difficult to be active. Running with C-Cups can hurt without proper support. That looks painful.

Fourth of all, really, you've never seen that hourglass on any other female fighter in video game history? This is not a rare thing--just the opposite.

[Count Viceroy]

Dave of Canada wrote...

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Its a fantasy game......

Realism still exists in a fantasy game.

So does 'unrealistic' features, what's your point? 

Modifié par Count Viceroy, 04 septembre 2010 - 05:07 .

[Lord_Valandil]

Hollingdale wrote...

Just wait until they reveal male Hawkes penis, you'll be all over it and no one will even remember Lady Hawkes boobs.

LOL. Karma's a ****.

[TheMadCat]

Deathispink wrote...

But why can't we be strong, capable, AND have large breasts?

Large? Those things would make Pamela Anderson and Jenna Jamerson envious. Origins were large, it's gone far beyond that now.

Or maybe Bethany stuffs.

[Aristorum]

Deathispink wrote...

But why can't we be strong, capable, AND have large breasts?

Because then women become Mary Sues. And Mary Sues are not compelling or engaging characters. Both physical and mental flaws lead to a more (dare I say it) emotionally engaging. How can a player connect to a virtually perfect character? I want my Hawke to be a dbag with a big nose. I want my femHawke to be buff and capable of ripping off an ogre's head. I don't want some model-esque femmy princess walking in and somehow felling an army of darkspawn with no visible muscles and two jugs just flailing off her chest.

[Dave of Canada]

Count Viceroy wrote...

So does not so realistic features, which can be applied to whatever you wish, not really an argument that...

A human is still a human, we apply our preconceptions of a man to a human man in a fantasy setting establishing realism. If that man had tiny arms in his nose, it's sense of realism is shattered and it can no longer be considered realistic. Dragon Age has built up to be a realistic RPG, they even gave rotten teeth to add more to that detail.

The fantasy aspects are what doesn't exist and how we compare it to other sources. If a Dragon was suddenly a penguin, people would be going "Wtf?" because it's not the fantasy they remember and thus the fantasy-realism is also shattered.

[SithLordExarKun]

Dave of Canada wrote...

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Its a fantasy game......

Realism still exists in a fantasy game.

Yes like skinny elves wielding two hand swords that outweigh them or races like elves,dwarves,qunari etc etc....

So you're basically saying a girl with a nicely shaped rack is unrealistic in a fantasy game?

[Lord_Valandil]

Come on, we don't know how the other companions will look.

Maybe Bethany is killed off early.

[Dave of Canada]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

So you're basically saying a girl with a nicely shaped rack is unrealistic in a fantasy game?

*I covered your elf example above*

In a medival world where silicone and growth hormones didn't exist in meat products, having EE sized breasts would almost be physically impossible with that waist line.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 04 septembre 2010 - 05:11 .

[hexaligned]

Aristorum wrote...

Deathispink wrote...

But why can't we be strong, capable, AND have large breasts?

Because then women become Mary Sues. And Mary Sues are not compelling or engaging characters. Both physical and mental flaws lead to a more (dare I say it) emotionally engaging. How can a player connect to a virtually perfect character? I want my Hawke to be a dbag with a big nose. I want my femHawke to be buff and capable of ripping off an ogre's head. I don't want some model-esque femmy princess walking in and somehow felling an army of darkspawn with no visible muscles and two jugs just flailing off her chest.

Jeebus Zombie Christ, big ****** does not a Mary Sue make.  In fact they are a flaw when it comes to physical combat.

[Count Viceroy]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Dragon Age has built up to be a realistic RPG, they even gave rotten teeth to add more to that detail.

They've just gone on and made a huge deal about them switching visual style to give it more impact, no doubt the redesign of the women is part of that. Having idealised figures on both genders in a fantasy game is hardly the most mind blowing concepts we're dealing with. People are seriously blowing this out of proportion.

Modifié par Count Viceroy, 04 septembre 2010 - 05:13 .

[Saibh]

Count Viceroy wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Its a fantasy game......

Realism still exists in a fantasy game.

So does not so realistic features, which can be applied to whatever you wish, not really an argument that...

I really hate this point, too, because of how thoughtless it is.

Alright. I feel like a broken record, but...

Magic does not exist. Because it doesn't exist, I have nothing IRL to compare it to. They can make up what they like without hurting my willing suspension of disbelief. I accept that magic is real here, even though it's impossible in the real world, and I don't need for it to follow basic rules (just in-universe consistent ones).

Dragons do exist in fantasy in the real world. Because of that, I expect them to follow certain conventions. They are lizard-like, they fly, they breathe fire. Maybe I would be willing to let go on some of those things, but it should be somewhere around something I'd call a dragon. Besides that, they are free to make up what they wish.

Women do exist in real life. In real life, those proportions are very, very rare. (I've never met a woman with those proportions naturally. Big boobs, sure. Small waist, sure. That big and that small? Never, but there's always a first.) I can compare those figures with real life and say, hey, that's not right! Your willing suspension of disbelief isn't hurt--but you're a guy. For a lot of girls, they are more attuned to that sort of issue and are affected by it. We compare it in real life and find it unrealistic. Not a fantasy, unrealistic.