148 réponses à ce sujet

[kamalpoe]

nicethugbert wrote...

One of the major complaints about SoZ was the shortness and thinness of the story. So, fleshing out the story would be welcome. Another complaint is too much money too soon. So, the SoZ story could be used as major milestones in a longer story. IIRC, there is nothing in the SoZ story that says the party can't stay a year or more in Samamrach, Things could unfold at a slower pace. Marco Polo's first journey took a couple years.

Going underdark is quite a stretch. The Underdark is quite far from SoZ. It may as well be another plane of existence. Only a major power would bother with all that distance for a major advantage, interest, or necessity.

The Yuan-ti have a presence in the underdark, in Skullport. What does that have to do with the SoZ story?

What is it about the underdark that seems so appealing? How does it fit into SoZ? Why not use other subterranean assets closer to the surface such as Najara.

"What is it about the underdark that seems so appealing?" It's an iconic FR location.

SoZ has an underdark bazaar populated by illithid. So saying it's far from SoZ needs explaining. Even if it's far in canon, it's there in the game.

Skullport is a large city. Not good for a community project as there'd be no good way to develop a city unless there's a subteam of people (unless you'd like to volunteer, I have an underground city you can use.). The last holiday project was "everyone do their thing and we'll figure something out".

I don't know how much CW can alter the SoZ story. I viewed the SoZ story as having a more complicated story that the player simply doesn't know, since yuan-ti apparently have a lot of internal politics and Sassani wasn't exactly going to fill you in on it.

The Samarach OM has no way to travel to a neightboring OM in the first part of the game. The Samarach area is bordered by mountains, you'd have to change the Samarach OM to have a transition to a neighboring aboveground OM unless you were used the teleporter or caught passage a ship (which should not be happening storywise in Samarach because of all the restrictions on foreigners and Sassani in particular). I don't believe you can change the layout of the official maps, CW added our last project by dropping things onto it, which you can do.

You only get too much money once you get out of Samarach and the trade routes get going. That either needs to be looked at and the rate they gather trade bars slowed down significantly, or there needs to be some other money sink. I'd suggest slowing, a large money sink would have trade as it's only way of filling it, since no amount of loot comes close to the massive income of the trade routes. I don't find the trade system interesting myself.

Najara is aboveground. :happy:

[kamalpoe]

Ok, the solution is incredibly obvious.

CW had said that once he figured out how to do it, adding locations to the existing OM's was simple. So if you want to do something there, go ahead!

If you want to do something Underdark, I can make a UM.

If you want a whole new project, I can make the SoZ holiday portion of a UM a part of a larger UM. There are a couple OM's on the Vault. If there's interest in an aboveground OM not already existing, I can make one to order.

[Azenn]

ChaosWielder hooked me into this SoZ expansion this time around as well, so I have a mini-project in the works against my better judgment! =D



However, I really like the idea of a completely fresh overland map to adventure in that would be worked on solely by the community and expanded overtime. The problem, however, is if there is to be a coherent story that ties everything together, one person would need to step up and do a little bit more than everyone else. Like make the map, the main city, the general "bad guy", etc.

[kamalpoe]

Azenn wrote...

ChaosWielder hooked me into this SoZ expansion this time around as well, so I have a mini-project in the works against my better judgment! =D

However, I really like the idea of a completely fresh overland map to adventure in that would be worked on solely by the community and expanded overtime. The problem, however, is if there is to be a coherent story that ties everything together, one person would need to step up and do a little bit more than everyone else. Like make the map, the main city, the general "bad guy", etc.

Someone would have to control the overarching story, or at least say "The story needs x". But it would probably have to be something like WPM's story if it's going to be a collection of side content.

I have a couple of cities I can contribute. They're actually out there in my Path of Evil area release on the Vault. There's some very nice cities on the Vault already, including at least one that's already populated and scripted and has some hooks built in (Seahorse Cove, which isn't set in Faerun but you could fix that).

Of course, with talk of a separate project, this thread is relevant link

[nicethugbert]

IIRC, that Underdark Bazaar is Underdark because of the inhabitants and goods, not because it is in the Underdark. I guess it's the last stop on that subterranean trade route being quite close to the surface. It would be very far away from Skullport.



Najara is above ground but the Yuan-ti live underground, but not Underdark, because they find the Serpent Hills too dry. They don't patrol Najara and it's not a formal state. It's just their habitat.

[nicethugbert]

What about post SoZ?

[kamalpoe]

nicethugbert wrote...

IIRC, that Underdark Bazaar is Underdark because of the inhabitants and goods, not because it is in the Underdark. I guess it's the last stop on that subterranean trade route being quite close to the surface. It would be very far away from Skullport.

Those illithid got there somehow, and it probably wasn't by walking. I think Mokah brought up that maybe that portal worked at one point and broke. So the player could fix it and go somewhere. While presumably it was/is a portal to the Underdark and that's how the illithid are there, I suppose you could have it that the player fix makes it a programmable portal, that way the player could go wherever.

Bonus idea: You could get new "programs" for the portal as you adventure elsewhere ingame, or buy them from some Red Wizards or something. This would allow control over where you could go so you could go to CL appropriate places.

[Hellfire_RWS]

I was about to finish my Spelljammer content to help the project.. Now I don't have to... back to making monsters.

[nicethugbert]

kamalpoe wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

IIRC, that Underdark Bazaar is Underdark because of the inhabitants and goods, not because it is in the Underdark. I guess it's the last stop on that subterranean trade route being quite close to the surface. It would be very far away from Skullport.

Those illithid got there somehow, and it probably wasn't by walking. I think Mokah brought up that maybe that portal worked at one point and broke. So the player could fix it and go somewhere. While presumably it was/is a portal to the Underdark and that's how the illithid are there, I suppose you could have it that the player fix makes it a programmable portal, that way the player could go wherever.

Bonus idea: You could get new "programs" for the portal as you adventure elsewhere ingame, or buy them from some Red Wizards or something. This would allow control over where you could go so you could go to CL appropriate places.

Sounds reasonable.  It also seems like a possible avenue of escape from the SoZ story line, or OM grinding. Also, It could be used to extend the story by having the PCs go Underdark before coming back to hit Zehir.  Maybe the "programs" are hidden in the side lairs like Demense.

[kamalpoe]

nicethugbert wrote...
Sounds reasonable.  It also seems like a possible avenue of escape from the SoZ story line, or OM grinding. Also, It could be used to extend the story by having the PCs go Underdark before coming back to hit Zehir.  Maybe the "programs" are hidden in the side lairs like Demense.

Exactly. Ideally the "programs" could be added in regular SoZ locations.

Needs CW to tell us how much the official content can be changed though.

[nicethugbert]

Serpent Kingdoms

Underdark

Lords of Madness

Modifié par nicethugbert, 21 septembre 2010 - 02:28 .

[Gilradthegreat]

Going back to another topic, how's work on fixing the original holiday project going? It's really frustrating how reserve feats don't work

[Eguintir Eligard]

Hey azzzzen! Did you end up doing anything in DA or just taking a well earned break from mod life?

[Shaun the Crazy One]

Chaos Wielder wrote...

There are a few potential problems:

1) It radically redefines the scope of SOZ. I'm not sure how comfortable I am with that.
2) I'd need *TONS* of new dungeons to even fill it. It seems unlikely I could get anywhere near enough(not to mention the many towns that no doubt need to be there).
3) Crafting would have to be redefined to expand into the epic levels.

I'm not against the idea, mind you, but these are pretty big issues just on their own.

The crafting problem is an fix.  The beauty of the SoZ crafting system is that you can just add new crafting recipies.  So just make a recipy for +6 and +7 weapons and armor and  possibly a few other items.  Don't even bother with the enchanters scatchel.

I'm all for the undark area with the new OM.  The OM need no be as big as the origenal two overland maps, and I think we have enough community intrest to make it happen.  It doesn't have to get the player all the way to level 30, and we could probably get away with no random encounters.

I would be happy to put together an area for it myself.  I was kinda upset I didn't get the chance to contribute last year, and whould really like to do so this time around regradless of what we decide to go with.

[The Fred]

I'm not that keen on the Underdark over anywhere else, but the place is huge so there's bound to be a bit of it under SoZ. It needn't be the Under, underdark either, it could be the Upperdark or whatever it's called, or you could use a portal (apparently there's one in the game) or something to get there.

Why would an adventurer go there? Why not? If you're an adventurer, you're bound to go to strange places in search of adventure.

Spelljammer, planescape etc or a whole new mod would be cool, but probably a lot more work. As mentioned, making a new, community-made module would require *some* sort of story, even if it was meant to be a "story lite", sandbox-style campaign (like SoZ or Wyrin's LoWPM).

As for tying it into the story, it needn't. There could be no yuan-ti down there at all. Or, the yuan-ti could oppose you getting whatever you need to activate the portal because they don't want you to be able to reach a cut-off (friendly) settlement down there, or they don't want another set of rivals (e.g. the drow) to be able to come back the other way, or whatever. Or, they could secretly encourage you to open it for reasons of their own etc etc. Alternatively it could just be like, "hey, a portal to the Underdark, cool! Let's open it just for the hell of it!".

P.S. I was looking at Underdark excerpts yesterday (when doing a quick search to see what Underdark and underground material there was available), it's pretty cool.

Modifié par The Fred, 07 septembre 2010 - 03:43 .

[The Fred]

I'd offer to help run a project, at least, but aside from being about to have probably less free time on top of having two big projects of my own, I also don't have SoZ (or MotB), making me highly unqualified to put anything together. ;-)

As for adding a UM, someone who knows about OMs and OM scripts and encounter tables should probably talk about that.

Modifié par The Fred, 07 septembre 2010 - 08:46 .

[Haplose]

Shaun the Crazy One wrote...
The crafting problem is an fix.  The beauty of the SoZ crafting system is that you can just add new crafting recipies.  So just make a recipy for +6 and +7 weapons and armor and  possibly a few other items.  Don't even bother with the enchanters scatchel.

Not that my voice really counts here, as I'm unlikely to contribute to the general effort.
But.... is such ridiculously overpowered equipment really necessary?

Silly equipment was the no. 1 problem for both HotU and MotB.

+5 with maybe 2d6 elemental damage really works, even at level 40.

[ArtEChoke]

The Fred wrote...
Even better, though: Intellect Devourer and Ankheg (if the models are done), Deep Hound, Thrum Worm, Stone Drake, Earth Elemental, Earth Whisper, Grey Render, Stone Maiden, Caryatid Column, Naga, Minotaur, Cinder Swarm, plus a load of templated creatures like Skitterhaunt Spiders, Voidmind etc.

The ID should be polished up and ready to go this weekend. The Ankheg has some work done, however its really property of RWS, so its pretty much up to them when it gets released. That being said, if we're all cool with getting it out as soon as possible, I can have it ready for whatever release date you're aiming at.

Also, once I'm done with the ID, I'd be open to a "speed creature" challenge (like with the mimic way back). If anyone has ideas for a simple creature (aka. mimic - no legs) I'll take a shot at it. I like seeing how far I can get in one evening - it will not get done in one evening, but its fun trying. Alternately, if anyone has an idea for a more complex creature which can piggy back existing animations, I'd be open to that as well.

On the subject of new campaign or not - don't bother. When I played SoZ I wanted to do anything but the main campaign. A new map to explore would be excellent. Trying to cobble together a cohesive campaign out of individually built areas will be impossible.

I'm excited to see what you guys decide on.

[kamalpoe]

You're a wandering adventurer, righting wrongs as they appear!



There, no story.

[kamalpoe]

ArtEChoke wrote...
Also, once I'm done with the ID, I'd be open to a "speed creature" challenge (like with the mimic way back). If anyone has ideas for a simple creature (aka. mimic - no legs) I'll take a shot at it. I like seeing how far I can get in one evening - it will not get done in one evening, but its fun trying. Alternately, if anyone has an idea for a more complex creature which can piggy back existing animations, I'd be open to that as well.

Some that I can think of that might be interesting:

Actual oozes or jellies, not the vfx versions we have now.
Wasp or other stinging insect swarm. (I'd imagine even a reskin of an air elemental could work.)
alternate Djinni with the lower half being smoke/whirlwind (like when they come out of their lamp, just a reskin to make the legs into smoke).
Assassin Vine or Roper (they barely/don't even move anyway)
Giant wasp (stirge reskin?)
Gibbering Mouther (though I think someone had made one at one point)

Of course any new monsters of any kind are always welcome.

Modifié par kamalpoe, 08 septembre 2010 - 02:41 .

[Hellfire_RWS]

kamalpoe wrote...

Actual oozes or jellies, not the vfx versions we have now.

What is actual? The oozes on the RWs pack are models that have a trans VFX applied (which is no longer necessary and will be fixed in the next update)

[kamalpoe]

Hellfire_RWS wrote...

kamalpoe wrote...

Actual oozes or jellies, not the vfx versions we have now.

What is actual? The oozes on the RWs pack are models that have a trans VFX applied (which is no longer necessary and will be fixed in the next update)

The one's I've seen were just transparent models with a very small vfx blob model. So the model did not visibly move in any way as it attacked/dodged whatever, and resizing did not change the size, so you could only have small blobs, not giant size ones .

[Hellfire_RWS]

? where did you get them. Now im worried that something is wrong with my oozes!)