181 réponses à ce sujet

[Russalka]

Off-topic, but evilness is subjective. The Reapers themselves might have salvation in mind. The world isn't black and white.

[kjdhgfiliuhwe]

No, the world isn't black and white. That said, I'd definitely side with Flemeth regardless of her intentions (assuming she let me and didn't simply see me as chattel) because at least life would be interesting. ;p I'd love an epic rpgs where the story was truly about the classical "evil" antagonist's view (I'm aware that would make it simply the protagonist, but I'm sure you understand). Even games that pretend to let you be grayer than pure white ultimately are about saving the world etc. By my count, I've saved the world hundreds of times over the last twenty+ years. How about a more selfish plot for once?

I wonder, at times, what the over-arching story really is for DA, and while I usually then almost immediately tell myself it's not worth wondering about-just wait for each game to come out and play-I wouldn't be put out if ultimately the story revolves around Flemeth's intentions and you and your companions in each installment are simply minor characters serving as puppets of the time period in her elaborate play.

Modifié par kjdhgfiliuhwe, 16 septembre 2010 - 06:24 .

[AlexXIV]

Russalka wrote...

Off-topic, but evilness is subjective. The Reapers themselves might have salvation in mind. The world isn't black and white.

They seem to have brainwashed you already. Did they offer to 'improve' you and spare you if help them?

Modifié par AlexXIV, 16 septembre 2010 - 06:28 .

[RazorrX]

I think Flemeth is something beyond abomination. She seems (could be a ruse) to be split personality at times. Ie "I think . . . do I? Why it seems I do."

I do not think she is an old god, elven god, etc. I think she (the part that is not human) possibly predates them.

Flemeth was once a woman who bonded with something. That something could have been around for a long time, possibly possessing others throughout history (Andraste even) until when it bonded with Flemeth, something happened and they fused.

If she actually does prolong her life like Morrigan thinks, perhaps there are ‘traces’ of each daughter left, creating a ‘legion’ effect to a point, perhaps there are residual traces of all the things she has possessed throughout time, thus making her something unknown, neither blood mage nor abomination but something beyond both.

That said in stolen throne I thought it was the trees (which she controlled) that killed everyone. They were like Ents I thought, sentient and created as watch dogs for her. Without her telling them not to kill, they kill.

[Mad Method]

I'll go guess Flemeth is Fen'Harel in disguise.

Neither from the physical realm or the fade: Check!
Trickster: Check!
Keep to yourself and only plot to your own devious ends: Check!

Modifié par Mad Method, 16 septembre 2010 - 08:50 .

[Astfgl]

I don't think Flemeth is evil. I mean really EVIL, somehow beyond human standarts at least. For wasn't it mentioned "No acient evil"? And she is ancient, right?

Modifié par Astfgl, 17 septembre 2010 - 11:40 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

I don't trust her, and she doesn't seem to be good, but a manipulative bastard.

I killed her in one playtrough and spared her in another, but if she pops up in DA2, I WILL kill her.


And yeah people - selfishness is evil.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 17 septembre 2010 - 08:15 .

[AlexXIV]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

I don't trust her, and she doesn't seem to be good, but a manipulative bastard.

I killed her in one playtrough and spared her in another, but if she pops up in DA2, I WILL kill her.


And yeah people - selfishness is evil.

I bet the irony in your comment escapes you.

[Russalka]

AlexXIV wrote...

Russalka wrote...

Off-topic, but evilness is subjective. The Reapers themselves might have salvation in mind. The world isn't black and white.

They seem to have brainwashed you already. Did they offer to 'improve' you and spare you if help them?

I am going by the bystanders opinion. We haven't been told WHY exactly the Reapers do what they do. They may as well look at themselves as utmost paragons of good.

We don't know why Flemeth acts or even what she is going to do, but it is so easy to label her evil because her methods are unorthodox, she is mysterious and enigmatic and no doubt an old wicked crone.

[AlexXIV]

Russalka wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Russalka wrote...

Off-topic, but evilness is subjective. The Reapers themselves might have salvation in mind. The world isn't black and white.

They seem to have brainwashed you already. Did they offer to 'improve' you and spare you if help them?

I am going by the bystanders opinion. We haven't been told WHY exactly the Reapers do what they do. They may as well look at themselves as utmost paragons of good.

We don't know why Flemeth acts or even what she is going to do, but it is so easy to label her evil because her methods are unorthodox, she is mysterious and enigmatic and no doubt an old wicked crone.

Does it really matter how the Reapers view themselves? Their plan is to wipe out all intelligent life in the galaxy. Again. You can ask the Protheans how much good it did the last time. Oh wait, you can't ...

Modifié par AlexXIV, 17 septembre 2010 - 01:25 .

[Ciryx]

Russalka wrote...

I am going by the bystanders opinion. We haven't been told WHY exactly the Reapers do what they do. They may as well look at themselves as utmost paragons of good.

We don't know why Flemeth acts or even what she is going to do, but it is so easy to label her evil because her methods are unorthodox, she is mysterious and enigmatic and no doubt an old wicked crone.

Noone considers themself as evil. Doing so would not make any sense psychologicaly.
Thats also the reasons why villians that are evil just for the sake of being evil are cartoonish, unbelievable and totally retarded. In my experience only 10 years old like villians like that. And even they think that the villian is rather stupid.

The Questioin is: What will u you acceptable do to achieve something. What are your morals? With what actions can u live and look at yourself in the mirror.

I totally agree with Russalka here.

@Topic: And stop telling something is evil. I kill stupid moskitos cause they distrub me falling into sleep. If u were a moskito i would be the incarnation of evil for you. Killing you for something what ur natural behaviour.
I still dont think i am evil myself though.

Modifié par Ciryx, 17 septembre 2010 - 01:27 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

AlexXIV wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

I don't trust her, and she doesn't seem to be good, but a manipulative bastard.

I killed her in one playtrough and spared her in another, but if she pops up in DA2, I WILL kill her.


And yeah people - selfishness is evil.

I bet the irony in your comment escapes you.

What irony?
Being selfish is a evil trait, like it or not.

[Everwarden]

Vandicus wrote...


In the Stolen Throne, Flemeth's house has a gruesome collection of corpses of innocent non-templar men. Dannon is the only one that is named, but the bodies were from a camp of people persecuted by the Orlesians. Dannon was killed for irritating Flemeth with his impoliteness while he was fleeing the Orlesians. 

Resposting this as many people seem to be ignoring the murder of random innocents in their assesments.

I remember there being corpses, I don't remember them specifically being called 'innocent non-templars'.

[AlexXIV]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

I don't trust her, and she doesn't seem to be good, but a manipulative bastard.

I killed her in one playtrough and spared her in another, but if she pops up in DA2, I WILL kill her.


And yeah people - selfishness is evil.

I bet the irony in your comment escapes you.

What irony?
Being selfish is a evil trait, like it or not.

Every living being is selfish to a certain extent. Or you would be dead by now. You eat to live, so something must die for you, that's selfish because you could as well just refuse to eat things that had to die just to be food. Of course you would die then but you'd die truely selfless. I'm not even going to ask you if you are vegetarian because for sure you'd come up with some stupid excuse for that. Anyway, good and evil are religious terms and don't even exist in modern psychology.

[AlexXIV]

Everwarden wrote...

Vandicus wrote...


In the Stolen Throne, Flemeth's house has a gruesome collection of corpses of innocent non-templar men. Dannon is the only one that is named, but the bodies were from a camp of people persecuted by the Orlesians. Dannon was killed for irritating Flemeth with his impoliteness while he was fleeing the Orlesians. 

Resposting this as many people seem to be ignoring the murder of random innocents in their assesments.

I remember there being corpses, I don't remember them specifically being called 'innocent non-templars'.

Well Flemeth herself admits that she deserves death for many things she did. We don't really need to argue about her innocence. Anyway, being a witch and kill-on-sight by many people warrants the question if she is just defending herself occationally. Morrigan also speaks of trapping templars who chase them. I mean, if you go out to hunt and kill witches you can't complain if one of them kills you.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 17 septembre 2010 - 01:57 .

[Virginian]

atheelogos wrote...

Yes she is up to something but I don't think we have enough info at present time to make reasonable assumptions about her morality.

Stealing the body of your daughters is more than enough to determine her morality. She is a twisted evil **** plain and simple.

[Herr Uhl]

Virginian wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

Yes she is up to something but I don't think we have enough info at present time to make reasonable assumptions about her morality.

Stealing the body of your daughters is more than enough to determine her morality. She is a twisted evil **** plain and simple.

Depends on the reason that she keeps living. If it is to save the world from something in a couple of centuries, twenty lives might be worth it.

[Ayanko]

Lets face it, she is some sort of evil. It depends on your morals and what you class as "Evil"

[Werewolf2010]

She probably wants to bring back the old gods, or become one herself if she isn't already and as long as she doesn't try to screw everyone over again to do it. I don't care. But if she tries the body snatching thing again...I'll just have to stick another axe in her face.

Modifié par Werewolf2010, 17 septembre 2010 - 05:44 .

[Virginian]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Virginian wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

Yes she is up to something but I don't think we have enough info at present time to make reasonable assumptions about her morality.

Stealing the body of your daughters is more than enough to determine her morality. She is a twisted evil **** plain and simple.

Depends on the reason that she keeps living. If it is to save the world from something in a couple of centuries, twenty lives might be worth it.

The ends never justify the means.

Evil is evil no matter the reason for it.

[Ayanko]

Werewolf2010 wrote...

She probably wants to bring back the old gods, or become one herself if she isn't already and as long as she doesn't try to screw everyone over again to do it. I don't care. But if she tries the body snatching thing again...I'll just have to stick another axe in her face.

She most likely is trying to screw someone over.

[Werewolf2010]

Ayanko wrote...

Werewolf2010 wrote...

She probably wants to bring back the old gods, or become one herself if she isn't already and as long as she doesn't try to screw everyone over again to do it. I don't care. But if she tries the body snatching thing again...I'll just have to stick another axe in her face.

She most likely is trying to screw someone over.

Yeah, probably. But you never know and I won't act unless provoked.:innocent: *polishes two-handed ax*

[Archereon]

AlexXIV wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

I don't trust her, and she doesn't seem to be good, but a manipulative bastard.

I killed her in one playtrough and spared her in another, but if she pops up in DA2, I WILL kill her.


And yeah people - selfishness is evil.

I bet the irony in your comment escapes you.

Nobody is above selfishness.  It's a flaw that we all experience at some point in our life, no matter how good and saintly we are, greed are some of the fundamental flaws of humankind.

[Iberius]

Well, Felemth is part demon is she not? I don't remember any "good" demons in DA:O; however, you can converse with one well enough if you start out as a mage and make deals with them. Who knows, I'd say Flemeth is out for power. Personally, I'm thinking something to do with the Black City but maybe that's just me. She is selfish, but she is also very cunning and I think her wisdom/cunning outweighs her selfishness. Whatever plan she has.........it's been hundreds of years in the making I would bet.