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Flemeth, Evil?


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#176
Phazor58

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EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Heavenblade wrote...

relhart wrote...

She's selfish, if you want to define evil as that go ahead I guess. It's also possible Morrigan is working in tandem with her.


Makes sense. Morrigan is the perfect puppet. A braindead sociopath who can easily be manipulated if you just tell her that doing "Task A" will result in her getting more doggie treats or jewelry or whatever it is that she likes.

Trying to bait Morrigan lovers into a fight eh? Hang on while I go get the popcorn.


I have been successfully baited.

Morrigan is awesome.  Flemeth is evil and must die. 'Nuff said.

#177
ShrinkingFish

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I'm not sure it is correct to classify Flemeth as being "evil" in any sense. Or "good" for that matter. The character seems to transcend these classifications.



Many of her actions are certainly good. She saves lives on occasion and without her the Blight would have destroyed all of Fereldan at least and definitely spread to the other countries.



We also do not yet entirely know her role in her interactions with the new character, Hawke, so nothing can be ventured on whether or not she does good by him/her as well.



The only one of her actions on record as being seemingly evil is the account of her method of immortality, that is the taking of her daughter's bodies for her own. But the conversation with Flemeth when confronting her about this leads me to believe it is not nearly as simple or straightforward as all that.



After all, it is made clear that her "life" is not dependent on a mortal shell. I definitely killed her in my play through and yet she is still around by all accounts. Morrigan even says, when she sends you to kill Flemeth, that it is only a stalling technique and doesn't ensure her safety by any stretch of the imagination. That she hopes that by the time Flemeth comes after her again she'll be prepared to defend herself.



And we also know absolutely nothing about her "plans". We are just all paranoid enough as gamers that we assume she has them, the belief of course being fed by a multitude of hints dropped by Flemeth herself as well as her daughter.



All we know is that what is coming will be a great "change" and that many will resist it, but that in the end it is a good thing. That it will set us free. At least according to Morrigan.



Another point to bring up is that the only evidence that Flemeth is at all evil is through the testimony of her daughter, Morrigan. Assuming that Flemeth is a bad guy is saying that you are trusting entirely in Morrigan's word, who we know is concerned with survival and power above all else.



Flemeth threatens Morrigan's survival and power and so it makes sense that they are in direct competition with one another and that only one can achieve victory. If Flemeth is a manipulator than it is not stretch to assume her daughter is as well, as she learned everything about life from her mother in an isolated setting.



That being said it is entirely likely that Morrigan's painting of her mother as a villain is nothing more than an attempt to win the Warden over to her side of the struggle against her mother.



Keep in mind, the book that outlines the ritual for Flemeth to possess Morrigan's body, the only concrete evidence of Flemeth being evil in any sense, is only discernible by Morrigan herself. Only she can read the book. And so it is by her word alone that we condemn Flemeth.



We just tend to side with Morrigan because she is young and beautiful and a member of our party while Flemeth is neither.

#178
thesilverlinedviking

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Flemeth's personality has transcended 'good' and 'evil'. One one hand, she saved the Warden and Alistar which saved a pretty good portion of the world, and on the other hand, she murdered innocent people (and had fun doing it) and tried to use Morrigan to keep herself alive. She has quite a grey personality, which is what BioWare intended her to have, just like lots of characters.

#179
ShrinkingFish

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thesilverlinedviking wrote...

Flemeth's personality has transcended 'good' and 'evil'. One one hand, she saved the Warden and Alistar which saved a pretty good portion of the world, and on the other hand, she murdered innocent people (and had fun doing it) and tried to use Morrigan to keep herself alive. She has quite a grey personality, which is what BioWare intended her to have, just like lots of characters.


The "innocence" of those she murdered is actually in question as well. Casting whether or not those people deserved their fate into the grey areas.

It was also proven that Flemeth didn't need Morrigan to keep herself alive... so that is still a slice of confusing pie for you to chew on.

#180
Lotion Soronarr

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AlexXIV wrote...

Every living being is selfish to a certain extent. Or you would be dead by now. You eat to live, so something must die for you, that's selfish because you could as well just refuse to eat things that had to die just to be food. Of course you would die then but you'd die truely selfless. I'm not even going to ask you if you are vegetarian because for sure you'd come up with some stupid excuse for that. Anyway, good and evil are religious terms and don't even exist in modern psychology.


Reductio Ad Absurdum much?:lol:

#181
Maconbar

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thesilverlinedviking wrote...

Flemeth's personality has transcended 'good' and 'evil'. One one hand, she saved the Warden and Alistar which saved a pretty good portion of the world, and on the other hand, she murdered innocent people (and had fun doing it) and tried to use Morrigan to keep herself alive. She has quite a grey personality, which is what BioWare intended her to have, just like lots of characters.


The fact that she has murdered innocent people and enjoyed it means that she hasn't transcended anything.

#182
Maconbar

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ShrinkingFish wrote...

thesilverlinedviking wrote...

Flemeth's personality has transcended 'good' and 'evil'. One one hand, she saved the Warden and Alistar which saved a pretty good portion of the world, and on the other hand, she murdered innocent people (and had fun doing it) and tried to use Morrigan to keep herself alive. She has quite a grey personality, which is what BioWare intended her to have, just like lots of characters.


The "innocence" of those she murdered is actually in question as well. Casting whether or not those people deserved their fate into the grey areas.

It was also proven that Flemeth didn't need Morrigan to keep herself alive... so that is still a slice of confusing pie for you to chew on.


How is the innocence of the people that she killed and then strung up near her house questionable?