1380 réponses à ce sujet

[Daur]

Monica83 wrote...

No you need it..
Because a warrior don't know how disarm traps it' don't have backstap attack him can't use traps so never change.. The problem was they maded a stupid not logical choice.. Why cut warriors ability when you can add some abilityes and new weapons and item for the rougue? My party in DAO was:
Me:warrior dual weapons light armor
Alistar: The tank
Leliana: Rougue skills Archers and bard skills
Morrigan: Mage smashing evrything

And leliana was very usefull in the team..for her ability of rougue.. like use traps lockpicking hide...
So i dont see this lack of difference of classes.. Ok the rougue is weak then add some others ability o specific weapons don't cut the opportunity to make a different type of warrior..

For the love of god spell the damn word correctly, it's ROGUE not rouge or rougue.

[Jimmy Fury]

Lilacs wrote...
As it stands right now, rogues are there to open locks and disarm traps.

And that's stupid. Rogues in the game specialize in Assassination, Dueling, Ranger...ing(!?), Scouting, Shadowing, and uhm... singing...
So how come the only thing they're useful for is open locks and disarming traps?
Shouldn't assassins be better at killing things than anyone else? That's their job isn't it?

[SDNcN]

Monica83 wrote...

That's not the point Sdn
The point is isn't logical as a choice.. A warrior is someone specialized to use weapons and in the battle.. Now cut valid alternatives for warrior only to improve the rougue is vrong

What a warrior or rogue is in an RPG is subjective.

It's stupid cut off the opportunity to made a different type of warrior and for what? for keep the class distinct? You can add many other things to rougues to keep class distinct..

Which is arguably what they are doing by making the weapon trees avaliable to rogues more 'roguish'. 

The question is why a warrior in dragon age world can't use a dual weapon or a bow and be dextrity based?.. Only for a gameplay stupid choice?
How you explain this change in term of gameworld? you can't simple isn't logical

Did they have a logical explanation for restricting weapon skills from rogues in the first game?
I'd have liked to make a Carta bruiser, with a two-handed mace and a knack for opening things that didn't belong to him.

Modifié par SDNcN, 07 septembre 2010 - 04:48 .

[Monica83]

Im sorry honey for my language im italian so my english isn't perfect.. And sometimes i typing fast so some word can be....

Enchanted!

Ok it's Rouge But the thing don't change.. The choice the made is...



Stupid... (is the correct word?)

[tmp7704]

Lilacs wrote...

Lol, that's funny!  That's impossible without a Warrior (and a healer).

Check out the classes build forum sub-section, there's been some Nightmare playthroughs done even by solo rogues, nevermind whole team.

Why would you need healer when game allows to spam the heal pot use, effectively granting every character unlimited health if only you bother to craft yourself some. Or stack defense to the point where most hits simply miss? A warrior is handy to have but by no means necessary, especially in Awakening where some rogue specs have sick damage reduction abilities -- the final part of my Awakening game (from city siege onwards) was 3 rogues + Anders. Sigrun was tanking things, i think it took something like 2 heal pots and 2 power pots for the whole thing?

Impossible my behind.

[wwwwowwww]

Lilacs wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

wwwwowwww wrote...

And yet it's ok, to make it so I have to bring a warrior along to survive? 

Who says you need warrior to survive? Rogues and mages can get through entire game on their own more than well.

Lol, that's funny!  That's impossible without a Warrior (and a healer).

Well maybe I just suck then, cuz there is no way I could get through DA:O on Nightmare as a rogue without a warrior in the party unless I had 2 mages with me, but either way I'm pretty much forced to have either a mage or warrior with me.
And considering that the combat in DA2 is to be faster and harder, it stands to reason I will have to at the very least have one or the other if not both with me at all times.

[addiction21]

Lilacs wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

wwwwowwww wrote...

And yet it's ok, to make it so I have to bring a warrior along to survive? 

Who says you need warrior to survive? Rogues and mages can get through entire game on their own more than well.

Lol, that's funny!  That's impossible without a Warrior (and a healer).

Tell it to these guys and everyone else that has done just that. Soloing with a rogue or mage.


Solo mage archedemon no potions
One of a series of a solo rogue soloing in Nightmare http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9uvjHyzjug


So whats your point again?

[wwwwowwww]

Lilacs wrote...

Jimmy Fury wrote...

Lilacs wrote...
As it stands right now, rogues are there to open locks and disarm traps.

And that's stupid. Rogues in the game specialize in Assassination, Dueling, Ranger...ing(!?), Scouting, Shadowing, and uhm... singing...
So how come the only thing they're useful for is open locks and disarming traps?
Shouldn't assassins be better at killing things than anyone else? That's their job isn't it?

Of course that was meant to be a useless reason to have a rogue in your party.  You miss the point here.  Read what was written, and read what I have written about rogues.  Personally, I love rogues.  I want Bioware to improve their abilities.  I simply do not desire Bioware to streamline another class in order to make the other distinct.

I want improvement for rogues.  If you check my character profile, you will see that I do play a rogue.  I have also written a Blog on Leliana, on how I enjoy playing her as an assassin.  Now, there.

I do agree they need to expand on rogues a lot. I remember the sacred ashes trailer that had Leliana tumbling and climbing up to high ground to use her bow, those should be things added to the Rogue if you ask me.
Rogues should have a chance at instakilling those they sneak up on and backstab, that comes with a unique finishing move. Please notice I said sneak, which utilizes another talent to get into place, not just getting into a backstabbing position in a large battel.

[Monica83]

I'm sorry SDN but you don't understeand..



An rpg requires a world background like we seen in DAO.. If you now decide when you wake up a morning..

Ok... Now archers and dual fighters are rougue.. You Ruin the world where you playing and this is why?..



Because in terms of background don't exist any logical explanation for it..



They maded a bad choice only for gameplay they cut out the opportunity to build a different warrior and this is only for a gameplay reason..

Now they can be do something different:

Add specific weapons for rogues (darts..trowing knife.. and other things skill and ability)

And if they made that they made de rogue class"distinct" whitout ruin the warrior class..

The warrior class is perfect in DAO the rougue must be improved but cut something for other class isn't a nice choice to do because you don't make Distinct thing you make Static things.. You make the warrior class only strenght based this mean lesser opportunity to build your character.. You make better if you improve the rogue class whitout ruin another one like i sayd.. It's simple.. If the only way to improve it is to cut and paste from other classes this is not... a feature.. This is lack of fantasy.. And the choice they did isn't logic in terms of world background it's only stupid..

[wwwwowwww]

addiction21 wrote...

Lilacs wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

wwwwowwww wrote...

And yet it's ok, to make it so I have to bring a warrior along to survive? 

Who says you need warrior to survive? Rogues and mages can get through entire game on their own more than well.

Lol, that's funny!  That's impossible without a Warrior (and a healer).

Tell it to these guys and everyone else that has done just that. Soloing with a rogue or mage.


Solo mage archedemon no potions
One of a series of a solo rogue soloing in Nightmare http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9uvjHyzjug


So whats your point again?

I'm not them and I don't play video games all the time. So for someone who very rarely plays video games the outcome is very different.

[tmp7704]

wwwwowwww wrote...

I'm not them and I don't play video games all the time. So for someone who very rarely plays video games the outcome is very different.

These people are playing on the hardest difficulty mode, someone who rarely plays video games can play the game on normal difficulty instead which makes quite enough of difference. As you mention yourself -- if you're 'forced' to bring either a mage or warrior then it means the presence of warrior isn't in fact required. One can use a combination of rogues and mages instead.

[Morroian]

Monica83 wrote...
No you need it..
Because a warrior don't know how disarm traps it' don't have backstap attack him can't use traps so never change.. The problem was they maded a stupid not logical choice..

Just because you won't be able to make your favourite character doesn't make it illogical, although as some have pointed out you will probably still be able to dual wield you just won't have access to the dual wield talent tree.

Their reasons are logical: it does make the classes more distinct, and the dual wield talents are dex based so it restricts them to the class where dex is the primary attribute. Also in real world terms the restriction is logical ie. that in history dual wielding 2 full sized swords in war didn't happen.

[wwwwowwww]

tmp7704 wrote...

wwwwowwww wrote...

I'm not them and I don't play video games all the time. So for someone who very rarely plays video games the outcome is very different.

These people are playing on the hardest difficulty mode, someone who rarely plays video games can play the game on normal difficulty instead which makes quite enough of difference. As you mention yourself -- if you're 'forced' to bring either a mage or warrior then it means the presence of warrior isn't in fact required. One can use a combination of rogues and mages instead.

But I am forced to bring one or the other which is pretty much my point. I can't do the game with just me, Leliana, and Zevran, not possible for me. 

[tmp7704]

Lilacs wrote...

Of course, in order to have a successful dungeon raid, you need to have a warrior (to pull and maintain aggro), a Rogue to scout (inspect the area, disarm traps, stun the spell scater and other damager, and of course, when the battle begins to quickly slash away the enemy  or enemies), a mage to mind control (and to provide awesome AoE), and another DPS Warrior or Rogue or a Hunter (Rogue in Dragon Age) and a Healer (In which, we cannot have in Dragon Age since we are limited to four companions instead of five).   Thus it boils down to:  Warrior, Rogue, Mage (Damanger), Mage healer and or different combinations of those.

You know, there's lot of RPGs outside of WoW 5-man runs. They actually do things different in them every now and then (they were also doing them before WoW too, but that's another story)

[AlanC9]

Lilacs wrote...
Of course, in order to have a successful dungeon raid, you need to have a warrior (to pull and maintain aggro), a Rogue to scout (inspect the area, disarm traps, stun the spell scater and other damager, and of course, when the battle begins to quickly slash away the enemy  or enemies), a mage to mind control (and to provide awesome AoE), and another DPS Warrior or Rogue or a Hunter (Rogue in Dragon Age) and a Healer (In which, we cannot have in Dragon Age since we are limited to four companions instead of five).   Thus it boils down to:  Warrior, Rogue, Mage (Damanger), Mage healer and or different combinations of those.

What game are you talking about here? Obviously not DAO. WoW?

Modifié par AlanC9, 07 septembre 2010 - 05:18 .

[tmp7704]

wwwwowwww wrote...

But I am forced to bring one or the other which is pretty much my point. I can't do the game with just me, Leliana, and Zevran, not possible for me. 

Well, did you ever try to do something out of the box during your game, like giving all your rogues a ranger spec and bringing the dog for the 4th companion, resulting in having a team of 7?   Or just a simple thing, like crafting enough pots for your team so they wouldn't have to rely on mage healing them? I mean, maybe you're right and it's indeed impossibly for you, but alternatively maybe you just didn't explore the routes which could, in fact make it possible

[AlanC9]

wwwwowwww , are you playing modded? A couple of mods that don't present themselves as raising difficulty do make certain tactics unviable

[Suicider_11]

SDNcN wrote...

Did they have a logical explanation for restricting weapon skills from rogues in the first game?
I'd have liked to make a Carta bruiser, with a two-handed mace and a knack for opening things that didn't belong to him.

THIS
^_^

[wwwwowwww]

tmp7704 wrote...

wwwwowwww wrote...

But I am forced to bring one or the other which is pretty much my point. I can't do the game with just me, Leliana, and Zevran, not possible for me. 

Well, did you ever try to do something out of the box during your game, like giving all your rogues a ranger spec and bringing the dog for the 4th companion, resulting in having a team of 7?   Or just a simple thing, like crafting enough pots for your team so they wouldn't have to rely on mage healing them? I mean, maybe you're right and it's indeed impossibly for you, but alternatively maybe you just didn't explore the routes which could, in fact make it possible

Why would I want to make a bunch of clones? That's no fun.

However yes I've tried many variations and it just didn't work for me. I consider the Dog a warrior so I'm leaving Dog out.