1380 réponses à ce sujet

[SDNcN]

Monica83 wrote...

I'm sorry SDN but you don't understeand..

An rpg requires a world background like we seen in DAO.. If you now decide when you wake up a morning..
Ok... Now archers and dual fighters are rougue.. You Ruin the world where you playing and this is why?..

Because in terms of background don't exist any logical explanation for it..

As I said, there was no logical explanation for limiting weapon skills in Origins either. Once a mage leaves the Cirlce and its restrictions why can't they learn weapon skills?

And if they made that they made de rogue class"distinct" whitout ruin the warrior class..
The warrior class is perfect in DAO the rougue must be improved but cut something for other class isn't a nice choice to do because you don't make Distinct thing you make Static things..

How is the warrior ruined by this? The Warrior in origins was far from perfect, just look at the number of people who thought 2-handers were too slow and useless.

If the only way to improve it is to cut and paste from other classes this is not... a feature.. This is lack of fantasy.. And the choice they did isn't logic in terms of world background it's only stupid..

The weapon trees are not the same as Origins. In DA:O the weapon skills were limited to different stationary attacks or sustainables. The dual-wielding tree now has rolls and flips included into it.
That isn't cutting and paste.

Modifié par SDNcN, 07 septembre 2010 - 05:21 .

[tmp7704]

Lilacs wrote...

And, uhm, I referred to WoW because of the companion thingy as an example.   Of course, I know that too well, that they are different games, but you are missing the point.  Success in a game that employs party members as its focal point depends on companions' strength and or abilities.

True enough, but counter-point to that is, this doesn't mean success must in 100% depend on rigid setup of having specific combination of certain classes and everything else resulting in automatic failure no matter what you do. It may very well be instead put on utilizing what you have to the best effect, working around shortcomings and using the strenghts.

[wwwwowwww]

AlanC9 wrote...

wwwwowwww , are you playing modded? A couple of mods that don't present themselves as raising difficulty do make certain tactics unviable

At one point I had a  ton of mods, but most of them just took away from the game for me after a while. Right now I'm down to using just a handfull that are more for appearance and dress than anything else.

[Monica83]

Morroiran isn't logical in terms of wolrd background and not because i can't build the my character.. A warrior that can't use a bow or dual weapons is stupid and its stupid to need to be a rogue to do it... This is no sense.. No logical explanation only a stupid bad choice in terms of gameplay that's all...

I played as a mage i played as a rogue i played as a warrior i played also as pink evil squirrel.. I have no problem with that.. The problem borns when something is cut off with a weak reason like to keep the class distinct.. you want to do that? Add things and dont broke nothing.. Simple.. Now with their choiche they limited our character building.. And they don't make something "distinct" but something "static" it's a bit different for many reasons...

This choice in terms of gaming ( because seems that people don't understeand the world of game background terms..) this mean a stepback in fact if you can't try different warrior character building means lesser gameplay.. So now you have a static class cutted off only to make things "better" in terms of gameplay...

In game world background don't have any sense that all people that use a bow or dual weapons are rouge..

Is similiar is you say to someone: You chant use hunting rifle because you are a policeman and you must use pistols and police stuff..

Is the same thing..



Or: You can cook cakes because you are not a kitchen worker.. Yes i know this sound stupid but it's the same thing

[tmp7704]

wwwwowwww wrote...

Why would I want to make a bunch of clones? That's no fun.

Why would you make them clones? I was talking of single specialization. Would you consider a shield+sword warrior with templar and champion specs a clone of 2-hand warrior with berserker and champion specs?

[ashwind]

Lilacs wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

wwwwowwww wrote...

And yet it's ok, to make it so I have to bring a warrior along to survive? 

Who says you need warrior to survive? Rogues and mages can get through entire game on their own more than well.

Lol, that's funny!  That's impossible without a Warrior (and a healer).

The very sad reality is - in my personal experience, warriors have the toughest time trying to soloing the game compared to mages and rogues.

Rogues can fight every bit as well as a warrior but they also get backstab, pick lock, disarm traps and stealth. Yet, it is the warriors who got 50% of their weapon talent removed from them for the sake of class distinction.

<_<<_<<_<

Modifié par ashwind, 07 septembre 2010 - 05:35 .

[RexAnthony]

Warrior can wear massive armors which are the best good-looking items in game available. Rogue and Mage however, stick with their awful stuffs.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Lilacs wrote...

Lol, that's funny!  That's impossible without a Warrior (and a healer).

My first time through the game I certainly didn't bring a Warrior along for most of it.  I had three Mages and a Rogue, and that's all I ever needed (I play on Hard - I don't see the point of Nightmare).

[Darthnemesis2]

ashwind wrote...

The very sad reality is - in my personal experience, warriors have the toughest time trying to soloing the game compared to mages and rogues.

Rogues can fight every bit as well as a warrior but they also get backstab, pick lock, disarm traps and stealth. Yet, it is the warriors who got 50% of their weapon talent removed from them for the sake of class distinction.

<_<<_<<_<

Dude, are you serious? A rogue couldn't do a straight up fight at all, that's why we have backstabs, stealth, etc.

[tmp7704]

Darthnemesis2 wrote...

Dude, are you serious? A rogue couldn't do a straight up fight at all, that's why we have backstabs, stealth, etc.

Are you talking of DA rogues or generic image of rogue? Because there isn't exactly anything in DA that prevents rogues from doing "straight up fight" and they certainly don't require stealth or backstabs.

[Darthnemesis2]

tmp7704 wrote...

Darthnemesis2 wrote...

Dude, are you serious? A rogue couldn't do a straight up fight at all, that's why we have backstabs, stealth, etc.

Are you talking of DA rogues or generic image of rogue? Because there isn't exactly anything in DA that prevents rogues from doing "straight up fight" and they certainly don't require stealth or backstabs.

Granted, but if you're playing a rogue like that... why not just be a warrior? And I'm speaking in general terms, oviously some people will play differently, but in general someone who's playing a rogue will play to the class' strengths (dirty fighting, backstabs and stealth).

Modifié par Darthnemesis2, 07 septembre 2010 - 05:43 .

[ashwind]

Darthnemesis2 wrote...

ashwind wrote...

The very sad reality is - in my personal experience, warriors have the toughest time trying to soloing the game compared to mages and rogues.

Rogues can fight every bit as well as a warrior but they also get backstab, pick lock, disarm traps and stealth. Yet, it is the warriors who got 50% of their weapon talent removed from them for the sake of class distinction.

<_<<_<<_<

Dude, are you serious? A rogue couldn't do a straight up fight at all, that's why we have backstabs, stealth, etc.

I am serious - Rogues can go str and use Massive Armor and hold 2 long swords, or use dagger with super high dex that nearly never gets hit. 

Think about it... what is the difference between a Rogue and a Warrior if both takes DW talent tree? They spam the same weapon talents. Backstab and stealth just makes them even better. 

[ashwind]

Darthnemesis2 wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

Darthnemesis2 wrote...

Dude, are you serious? A rogue couldn't do a straight up fight at all, that's why we have backstabs, stealth, etc.

Are you talking of DA rogues or generic image of rogue? Because there isn't exactly anything in DA that prevents rogues from doing "straight up fight" and they certainly don't require stealth or backstabs.

Granted, but if you're playing a rogue like that... why not just be a warrior? And I'm speaking in general terms, oviously some people will play differently, but in general someone who's playing a rogue will play to the class' strengths (dirty fighting, backstabs and stealth).

Because they can not only fight as well as a warrior, they can also pick locks and disarm traps.... :unsure:

[tmp7704]

Darthnemesis2 wrote...

Granted, but if you're playing a rogue like that... why not just be a warrior?

Because i can do it as rogue? I thought the point was that rogues can't do that, not "why would you want to do it with class X when class Y can do it too"

[Darthnemesis2]

ashwind wrote...

Darthnemesis2 wrote...

Dude, are you serious? A rogue couldn't do a straight up fight at all, that's why we have backstabs, stealth, etc.

I am serious - Rogues can go str and use Massive Armor and hold 2 long swords, or use dagger with super high dex that nearly never gets hit. 

Think about it... what is the difference between a Rogue and a Warrior if both takes DW talent tree? They spam the same weapon talents. Backstab and stealth just makes them even better. 

Ok, except that a rogue can't get into backstabbing position if he's the only one there, especially when you consider the fact that he'll be outnumbered in every encounter. Plus a warrior gets bunuses from his warrior talents, such as powerful and death blow, that will keep his stamina up even while wearing massive armor. A rogue can't spam weapon talents if he's out of stamina and can't backstab if he can't stealth because he's out of stamina. Even if you're going with the high dex "you can't hit me" rogue any blow that does land will cause a lot of damage due to him wearing light armor.

[Darthnemesis2]

ashwind wrote...
Because they can not only fight as well as a warrior, they can also pick locks and disarm traps.... :unsure:

So what you really want is a warrior who can pick locks...

[ashwind]

Darthnemesis2 wrote...

ashwind wrote...

Darthnemesis2 wrote...

Dude, are you serious? A rogue couldn't do a straight up fight at all, that's why we have backstabs, stealth, etc.

I am serious - Rogues can go str and use Massive Armor and hold 2 long swords, or use dagger with super high dex that nearly never gets hit. 

Think about it... what is the difference between a Rogue and a Warrior if both takes DW talent tree? They spam the same weapon talents. Backstab and stealth just makes them even better. 

Ok, except that a rogue can't get into backstabbing position if he's the only one there, especially when you consider the fact that he'll be outnumbered in every encounter. Plus a warrior gets bunuses from his warrior talents, such as powerful and death blow, that will keep his stamina up even while wearing massive armor. A rogue can't spam weapon talents if he's out of stamina and can't backstab if he can't stealth because he's out of stamina. Even if you're going with the high dex "you can't hit me" rogue any blow that does land will cause a lot of damage due to him wearing light armor.

I personally find the Warrior Talent bonus to be pitiful... maybe tis just me.

I rarely try/need to backstab, frontal assault works well for me. Stamina is never a problem, I am in massive armor with Momentum always activated - rarely need to "spam" talents. In light armor, combat stealth is the panic button that again works great for me.

I trick you not, in DA - a Rogue is every bit as as deadly as a Warrior fighting enemies head on.

So what you really want is a warrior who can pick locks... 

I dont really wanted that but... it is there.. so.. Rogue class distinction in DA is a Warrior who can pick locks... yeah..

What they are doing now is to make it more distinct by making the definition of Rogue:
Acrobatic Warrior who can pick lock and wields two weapon and bows (exclusive)
<_<<_<<_<

Modifié par ashwind, 07 septembre 2010 - 06:06 .

[wwwwowwww]

ashwind wrote...

Darthnemesis2 wrote...

ashwind wrote...

Darthnemesis2 wrote...

Dude, are you serious? A rogue couldn't do a straight up fight at all, that's why we have backstabs, stealth, etc.

I am serious - Rogues can go str and use Massive Armor and hold 2 long swords, or use dagger with super high dex that nearly never gets hit. 

Think about it... what is the difference between a Rogue and a Warrior if both takes DW talent tree? They spam the same weapon talents. Backstab and stealth just makes them even better. 

Ok, except that a rogue can't get into backstabbing position if he's the only one there, especially when you consider the fact that he'll be outnumbered in every encounter. Plus a warrior gets bunuses from his warrior talents, such as powerful and death blow, that will keep his stamina up even while wearing massive armor. A rogue can't spam weapon talents if he's out of stamina and can't backstab if he can't stealth because he's out of stamina. Even if you're going with the high dex "you can't hit me" rogue any blow that does land will cause a lot of damage due to him wearing light armor.

I personally find the Warrior Talent bonus to be pitiful... maybe tis just me.

I rarely try/need to backstab, frontal assault works well for me. Stamina is never a problem, I am in massive armor with Momentum always activated - rarely need to "spam" talents. In light armor, combat stealth is the panic button that again works great for me.

I trick you not, in DA - a Rogue is every bit as as deadly as a Warrior fighting enemies head on.

Rogues shouldn't be wearing massive armor, and anyone wearing anything heavier than light armor should not be able to DW, this is a big oversight and error on Bioware's part.

[tmp7704]

Darthnemesis2 wrote...

Ok, except that a rogue can't get into backstabbing position if he's the only one there, especially when you consider the fact that he'll be outnumbered in every encounter. Plus a warrior gets bunuses from his warrior talents, such as powerful and death blow, that will keep his stamina up even while wearing massive armor.

Don't forget the rogues get talents to score automatic "backstabs" againt paralyzed/stunned targets and their own version of stamina regen for killing enemies. As well as their own ways to significantly reduce incoming damage.

[jbblue05]

Why couldn't Bioware just make a new fighting style fo rogues
like giving them a katana like weapon a weapon that's as big as a longsword but a rogue use both hands to wield it to gain speed power and accuracy. It would definently give rogues a ninja feel

Hopefully Bioware is making  new fighting styles for warriors and we aren't stuck with generic S&S and defenseless two-handed warrior

[wwwwowwww]

jbblue05 wrote...

Why couldn't Bioware just make a new fighting style fo rogues
like giving them a katana like weapon a weapon that's as big as a longsword but a rogue use both hands to wield it to gain speed power and accuracy. It would definently give rogues a ninja feel

Hopefully Bioware is making  new fighting styles for warriors and we aren't stuck with generic S&S and defenseless two-handed warrior

So you mean a two hander style for rogue then?

Adding something like dagger/knife throwing would make more sense.

[ashwind]

wwwwowwww wrote...
Adding something like dagger/knife throwing would make more sense.

And the Rogue can be mobile (running around) while throwing those daggers - that to me is more Roguish than bows... <_<<_<<_<<_<

[Darthnemesis2]

tmp7704 wrote...

Darthnemesis2 wrote...

Ok, except that a rogue can't get into backstabbing position if he's the only one there, especially when you consider the fact that he'll be outnumbered in every encounter. Plus a warrior gets bunuses from his warrior talents, such as powerful and death blow, that will keep his stamina up even while wearing massive armor.

Don't forget the rogues get talents to score automatic "backstabs" againt paralyzed/stunned targets

But again, if you're outnumbered, even if you're scoring backstabs against a stunned opponent you'll be taking so much damage from other you'll still be killed quickly.

 and their own version of stamina regen for killing enemies.

Only through spec, we're talking rogue/dw vs warrior/dw. If you wanna start bringing specs into this I can give a whole new list of reasons why warrior will outlast rogue in a fight.
 

As well as their own ways to significantly reduce incoming damage.

Evasion is the only rogue talent that does this and while it is useful it doesn't help lower the damage a rogue takes in the event he gets hit.

[tmp7704]

wwwwowwww wrote...

So you mean a two hander style for rogue then?

Adding something like dagger/knife throwing would make more sense.

Why would it make more sense when people spent half of this thread making argument rogues can't wear heavy armour because they are supposed to be all about sneak and "like a ninja" ... and japanese swords were very much 2-hand fighting style? That'd fit such "ninja-like rogue" quite well, flipping out animations et all.

[Taura-Tierno]

Monica83 wrote...

This choice in terms of gaming ( because seems that people don't understeand the world of game background terms..) this mean a stepback in fact if you can't try different warrior character building means lesser gameplay.. So now you have a static class cutted off only to make things "better" in terms of gameplay...
In game world background don't have any sense that all people that use a bow or dual weapons are rouge..
Is similiar is you say to someone: You chant use hunting rifle because you are a policeman and you must use pistols and police stuff..
Is the same thing..

Or: You can cook cakes because you are not a kitchen worker.. Yes i know this sound stupid but it's the same thing

Have they said that warriors won't be able to use bows or dual-wield weapons? I mean, that it's not just the talent trees that are limited to rogues? That would make little sense, but if warriors still can dual-wield and use ranged weapons, just not specialize in them, I don't see the problem.

Have they said that they aren't adding anything to the warrior class? I sure hope they do; the warriors weren't perfect in Origins. There's a lot of room for improvement.

I like the idea of making the classes more distinct. By the end of just Origins, and not even having played awakening yet, my rogue feels more like a warrior than, well ... a rogue. As long as they do equally much to make the warrior class more distinct, I don't see how this will ruin the gameplay.

It makes more sense that warriors can't specialize in DW than it does that companions can't take the coercion skill, that you can't have the companions talk for you all the same, that some weapons are restricted to the warrior class (keening blade, for instance), that certain items are restricted to specific characters, that mages can't learn how to pick up a sword and fight and learn a few sword talents ...