234 réponses à ce sujet

[Eber]

You don't have to settle for the story as it is told by Bioware. Maybe your Shepard didn't kill the rachni for the lulz like in game Shepard but for a sane reason. Maybe your Shepard did upgrade the Normandy completely but people still died on the way in.



If I want Jack dead I'm going to upgrade the armor after the suicide mission and pretend I did it before. No one will know the difference.

[Redcoat]

ExtremeOne wrote...

killing off your crew because you do not like is fine. Tali is useless and has no real reason for being in the game beside fan service. she is annoying and that crap about shepard i trusted you is pathetic and stupid. her recruitment mission is basically a stupid rescue mission. yeah she has fans but thats not why i hate her she is just a total useless and unneeded character and on top of that she has no problem with doing weapons test on the Geth. Oh and in ME 3 if Tali is in it she will not be part of my game because she is dead. one other thing about . so yeah i have no problem murdering her.

Tali is fanservice (and other characters like Miranda arent...?)...but what of it? BioWare is merely providing what a large number of fans want, and there is no evidence that any other charcters suffered in terms character development because they decided to bring Tali and Garrus back. If Tali and Garrus were given a disproportionate amount of game time compared to the others merely on account of their popularity, then I might complain.

Every character is fanservice. Every one is designed to appeal to different people.

[ExtremeOne]

Redcoat wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

killing off your crew because you do not like is fine. Tali is useless and has no real reason for being in the game beside fan service. she is annoying and that crap about shepard i trusted you is pathetic and stupid. her recruitment mission is basically a stupid rescue mission. yeah she has fans but thats not why i hate her she is just a total useless and unneeded character and on top of that she has no problem with doing weapons test on the Geth. Oh and in ME 3 if Tali is in it she will not be part of my game because she is dead. one other thing about . so yeah i have no problem murdering her.

Tali is fanservice (and other characters like Miranda arent...?)...but what of it? BioWare is merely providing what a large number of fans want, and there is no evidence that any other charcters suffered in terms character development because they decided to bring Tali and Garrus back. If Tali and Garrus were given a disproportionate amount of game time compared to the others merely on account of their popularity, then I might complain.

Every character is fanservice. Every one is designed to appeal to different people.

   


I like Garrus and have no problem with him because he at least has a logical reason for being on Omega in the game. Tali is there as pure fan service and her spot could have been used to explore Zaeed's character or Kasumi's character more but no because Bioware wants to be damn slaves to one character's little orgy that they have over anything related to her everyone else who can not stand this alien b*tch has to be forced to deal with her until the SM and the worse part is the b*tch has the shield enhancement for the Normandy so you can not skip her at all.  so yeah killing her is fair and makes me happy. other characters did suffer like Zaeed and Kasumi if Bioware did not put this clown in the game maybe we could have got a better insight into the 2 dlc characters. but no thats not what we got . so yeah it did harm other characters. 

[Water Dumple]

Redcoat wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

killing off your crew because you do not like is fine. Tali is useless and has no real reason for being in the game beside fan service. she is annoying and that crap about shepard i trusted you is pathetic and stupid. her recruitment mission is basically a stupid rescue mission. yeah she has fans but thats not why i hate her she is just a total useless and unneeded character and on top of that she has no problem with doing weapons test on the Geth. Oh and in ME 3 if Tali is in it she will not be part of my game because she is dead. one other thing about . so yeah i have no problem murdering her.

Tali is fanservice (and other characters like Miranda arent...?)...but what of it? BioWare is merely providing what a large number of fans want, and there is no evidence that any other charcters suffered in terms character development because they decided to bring Tali and Garrus back. If Tali and Garrus were given a disproportionate amount of game time compared to the others merely on account of their popularity, then I might complain.

Every character is fanservice. Every one is designed to appeal to different people.

Indeed. You aren't even forced to use any character beyond Jacob and Miranda, and they are only because they're the starting group. After recruiting someone, you can let them sit on their little piece of the Normandy and leave them forever. There's no requirement to do their loyalty mission, and assuming you finish the others, the character can still survive the suicide mission if you do it right. But if you really loathe a digital representation of a fictional being that much, you can get it killed. Congratulations. That whole time, you were never forced to take the character with you (unless you wanted them in a specific part of the suicide mission). Hell, in the case of Thane, Tali, Grunt, Legion, and Samara, you can skip recruiting them altogether.

This system allows each player's favorite characters to be involved just as much as they want; past recruitment, you need no further involvement with them. As previously mentioned, every character is intended to appeal to different sorts of people. I like nearly all of them, but yeah, I got preferences. Yet none of them affect each other, so there's no problem with a character being "fanservice" because they ALL are.

[Redcoat]

ExtremeOne wrote...

Redcoat wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

killing off your crew because you do not like is fine. Tali is useless and has no real reason for being in the game beside fan service. she is annoying and that crap about shepard i trusted you is pathetic and stupid. her recruitment mission is basically a stupid rescue mission. yeah she has fans but thats not why i hate her she is just a total useless and unneeded character and on top of that she has no problem with doing weapons test on the Geth. Oh and in ME 3 if Tali is in it she will not be part of my game because she is dead. one other thing about . so yeah i have no problem murdering her.

Tali is fanservice (and other characters like Miranda arent...?)...but what of it? BioWare is merely providing what a large number of fans want, and there is no evidence that any other charcters suffered in terms character development because they decided to bring Tali and Garrus back. If Tali and Garrus were given a disproportionate amount of game time compared to the others merely on account of their popularity, then I might complain.

Every character is fanservice. Every one is designed to appeal to different people.

   


I like Garrus and have no problem with him because he at least has a logical reason for being on Omega in the game. Tali is there as pure fan service and her spot could have been used to explore Zaeed's character or Kasumi's character more but no because Bioware wants to be damn slaves to one character's little orgy that they have over anything related to her everyone else who can not stand this alien b*tch has to be forced to deal with her until the SM and the worse part is the b*tch has the shield enhancement for the Normandy so you can not skip her at all.  so yeah killing her is fair and makes me happy. other characters did suffer like Zaeed and Kasumi if Bioware did not put this clown in the game maybe we could have got a better insight into the 2 dlc characters. but no thats not what we got . so yeah it did harm other characters. 

Supposition. Impossible to be certain!

Zaeed and Kasumi are DLC characters released AFTER the game - BioWare could have taken as much or as little time developing them as they pleased because it would not affect the release date of ME2. Their lack of development has nothing to do with Tali's presence.

Secondly, Tali is forced on no one! Every character has a certain amount of "unavoidable screentime" beyond which you are not required to interact with them in any manner whatsoever! With some characters you are not even required to recruit them in the first place. It's like the old joke about the man going to the doctor complaining, "Doc, it hurts when I do this!" to which he replies, "Then don't do that!"

[ExtremeOne]

Water Dumple wrote...

Redcoat wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

killing off your crew because you do not like is fine. Tali is useless and has no real reason for being in the game beside fan service. she is annoying and that crap about shepard i trusted you is pathetic and stupid. her recruitment mission is basically a stupid rescue mission. yeah she has fans but thats not why i hate her she is just a total useless and unneeded character and on top of that she has no problem with doing weapons test on the Geth. Oh and in ME 3 if Tali is in it she will not be part of my game because she is dead. one other thing about . so yeah i have no problem murdering her.

Tali is fanservice (and other characters like Miranda arent...?)...but what of it? BioWare is merely providing what a large number of fans want, and there is no evidence that any other charcters suffered in terms character development because they decided to bring Tali and Garrus back. If Tali and Garrus were given a disproportionate amount of game time compared to the others merely on account of their popularity, then I might complain.

Every character is fanservice. Every one is designed to appeal to different people.

Indeed. You aren't even forced to use any character beyond Jacob and Miranda, and they are only because they're the starting group. After recruiting someone, you can let them sit on their little piece of the Normandy and leave them forever. There's no requirement to do their loyalty mission, and assuming you finish the others, the character can still survive the suicide mission if you do it right. But if you really loathe a digital representation of a fictional being that much, you can get it killed. Congratulations. That whole time, you were never forced to take the character with you (unless you wanted them in a specific part of the suicide mission). Hell, in the case of Thane, Tali, Grunt, Legion, and Samara, you can skip recruiting them altogether.

This system allows each player's favorite characters to be involved just as much as they want; past recruitment, you need no further involvement with them. As previously mentioned, every character is intended to appeal to different sorts of people. I like nearly all of them, but yeah, I got preferences. Yet none of them affect each other, so there's no problem with a character being "fanservice" because they ALL are.

  


there is a difference between a character being in the game for story reasons and ones that have some connection to the game's main or sub story. Tali on the other hand has no connection to neither one. and her spot could have been used for other characters. yeah i could skip Tali but she also has the shield enhancement for the ship. i understand what you are saying but there is difference between fan service and story related characters. 

[ExtremeOne]

Redcoat wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

Redcoat wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

killing off your crew because you do not like is fine. Tali is useless and has no real reason for being in the game beside fan service. she is annoying and that crap about shepard i trusted you is pathetic and stupid. her recruitment mission is basically a stupid rescue mission. yeah she has fans but thats not why i hate her she is just a total useless and unneeded character and on top of that she has no problem with doing weapons test on the Geth. Oh and in ME 3 if Tali is in it she will not be part of my game because she is dead. one other thing about . so yeah i have no problem murdering her.

Tali is fanservice (and other characters like Miranda arent...?)...but what of it? BioWare is merely providing what a large number of fans want, and there is no evidence that any other charcters suffered in terms character development because they decided to bring Tali and Garrus back. If Tali and Garrus were given a disproportionate amount of game time compared to the others merely on account of their popularity, then I might complain.

Every character is fanservice. Every one is designed to appeal to different people.

   


I like Garrus and have no problem with him because he at least has a logical reason for being on Omega in the game. Tali is there as pure fan service and her spot could have been used to explore Zaeed's character or Kasumi's character more but no because Bioware wants to be damn slaves to one character's little orgy that they have over anything related to her everyone else who can not stand this alien b*tch has to be forced to deal with her until the SM and the worse part is the b*tch has the shield enhancement for the Normandy so you can not skip her at all.  so yeah killing her is fair and makes me happy. other characters did suffer like Zaeed and Kasumi if Bioware did not put this clown in the game maybe we could have got a better insight into the 2 dlc characters. but no thats not what we got . so yeah it did harm other characters. 

Supposition. Impossible to be certain!

Zaeed and Kasumi are DLC characters released AFTER the game - BioWare could have taken as much or as little time developing them as they pleased because it would not affect the release date of ME2. Their lack of development has nothing to do with Tali's presence.

Secondly, Tali is forced on no one! Every character has a certain amount of "unavoidable screentime" beyond which you are not required to interact with them in any manner whatsoever! With some characters you are not even required to recruit them in the first place. It's like the old joke about the man going to the doctor complaining, "Doc, it hurts when I do this!" to which he replies, "Then don't do that!"
 

   



I see your point 

[didymos1120]

By traditional definitions of the term, Miranda is far more fanservice than Tali is. Hell, even Samara fits the original definition better, what with all that cleavage. It's somewhat more accurate to say that the Tali romance is fanservice, though it's still not of the "skimpy outfits and jiggle-physics" variety.

[AresXX7]

weirdopo wrote...

EffectedByTheMasses wrote...

Hm. actually, I'm interested to know... Aside from saying you dislike one character more than the other, what normally prompts you guys to choose Kaiden or Ash to save?

Romance.

I agree with weirdopo's answer, I usually go with Ash, as I tend to play as a MaleShep more often.

But, it isn't the only reason, I think her character has more room for growth, in regards to her feelings towards aliens & how she views the military.

I have couple Sheps with Liara, but she didn't seem to advance much, characterwise, so I tend to stick with Ash more.

[Aradace]

Nightwriter wrote...

I hear a lot of people saying "rawr rawr, I hate this person, I killed them, ha ha!"

I have people I may not love, sure, but I'd never kill them off. Aside from the fact that I don't feel my Shepard would let a teammate bite it just because of dislike, I'd never cut myself out of game content.

So I'm curious - why kill someone you dislike? Isn't it better to keep them around and be a douche to them, at the very least?

Beeeeecaaaaaaauuuuuse it's a video game and I can do as I damn well please without any true consequences? lol

[Water Dumple]

ExtremeOne wrote...

Water Dumple wrote...

Redcoat wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

killing off your crew because you do not like is fine. Tali is useless and has no real reason for being in the game beside fan service. she is annoying and that crap about shepard i trusted you is pathetic and stupid. her recruitment mission is basically a stupid rescue mission. yeah she has fans but thats not why i hate her she is just a total useless and unneeded character and on top of that she has no problem with doing weapons test on the Geth. Oh and in ME 3 if Tali is in it she will not be part of my game because she is dead. one other thing about . so yeah i have no problem murdering her.

Tali is fanservice (and other characters like Miranda arent...?)...but what of it? BioWare is merely providing what a large number of fans want, and there is no evidence that any other charcters suffered in terms character development because they decided to bring Tali and Garrus back. If Tali and Garrus were given a disproportionate amount of game time compared to the others merely on account of their popularity, then I might complain.

Every character is fanservice. Every one is designed to appeal to different people.

Indeed. You aren't even forced to use any character beyond Jacob and Miranda, and they are only because they're the starting group. After recruiting someone, you can let them sit on their little piece of the Normandy and leave them forever. There's no requirement to do their loyalty mission, and assuming you finish the others, the character can still survive the suicide mission if you do it right. But if you really loathe a digital representation of a fictional being that much, you can get it killed. Congratulations. That whole time, you were never forced to take the character with you (unless you wanted them in a specific part of the suicide mission). Hell, in the case of Thane, Tali, Grunt, Legion, and Samara, you can skip recruiting them altogether.

This system allows each player's favorite characters to be involved just as much as they want; past recruitment, you need no further involvement with them. As previously mentioned, every character is intended to appeal to different sorts of people. I like nearly all of them, but yeah, I got preferences. Yet none of them affect each other, so there's no problem with a character being "fanservice" because they ALL are.

  


there is a difference between a character being in the game for story reasons and ones that have some connection to the game's main or sub story. Tali on the other hand has no connection to neither one. and her spot could have been used for other characters. yeah i could skip Tali but she also has the shield enhancement for the ship. i understand what you are saying but there is difference between fan service and story related characters. 

If you want to make it about a single character, she was investigating Veetor's presence on Freedom's Progress when you find her by chance. Having worked with Shepard two years ago, sure, she'll help out again. Same thing with Garrus, except he doesn't have an annoying fanbase to make you quite clearly biased against him. Despite what you said about this opinion having no connection to the fanbase, Tali and Garrus have relatively equal positions (hell, Garrus even has a ship upgrade like the one you keep complaining about); the primary difference between the two is most likely just that parts of Tali's fanbase are annoying, or some insignificant reason other than what you mentioned.

You said she has no connection to the sub story, which is almost entirely wrong, as the Geth/Quarian conflict is a major component of the Mass Effect universe. If Tali has no connection to the main/sub story, then by extension Legion doesn't either. I don't see anyone complaining about him, however. You also referenced the DLC characters as having more relevance, which makes no sense because neither is a part of the story (Hell, they don't even have the potential: They're DLC). Look at Smudboy's character analysis videos, and he pretty definitely shows that only ~5 characters are needed for the story.

Face it, the community has a pretty definite impact on opinions. Very nearly made me hate many aspects of ME2's design at certain points, including its characters; you just have to keep what you think separated from what you read. Your complaints would hold water if you held an equal regard for the characters they all actually applied to. Instead, you specifically target one and ignore the others, despite your reasons for that opinion also applying to other characters. In the end, many characters are unnecessary, but they are included in the game because people like them, and if you don't, there is no requirement to use them, beyond one conversation with Jacob/Tali/Garrus for a ship upgrade. It's designed as a win-win situation, yet many people see it only as a fatal flaw with ME2.

[Tao88]

Water Dumple wrote...

Same thing with Garrus, except he doesn't have an annoying fanbase to make you quite clearly biased against him.

Fact: Much of Garrus' fanbase has regular intimate relations with deceased dolphins.  But that doesn't make me like him any less.  (The fact that he has really little to say to me besides telling me about this one babe he scored with and asking me to help him kill a guy kinda does.)

On topic:  If I kill a character on a certain playthrough in the Suicide Mission, it's only because I'm curious about the ramifications in ME3. 

I guess that makes it premeditated rather than a crime of passion.  Our goals may be different, but our methods are the same.

Modifié par Tao88, 05 septembre 2010 - 08:46 .

[lovgreno]

Seeing how Shepard desperately needs to build alliances for the coming reaper conflict it would be short sighted, immature and a sign of low self esteem for him/her to kill someone just because he/she don't like them. Sure, there are some characters I would prefer to not see in ME3 but Shepard can't afford being a jerk and psychopath who kills or let people die just because they airquote him/her or something petty like that.

Some people who are too dangerous to live may have to be removed but my Shepards are psychologicaly stable adults with good self esteem so they never kill people for narrow personal reasons.

[numotsbane]

I enjoy the chaos of having lots of people die. in a way I think it adds to ME2, after 3 runs I found saving everyone really boring. it seems more dramatic and realistic to have some people bite the dust.

But I'd never kill my favourites. which means inevitably its tali, jacob and thane who bite the dust. The only time I ever felt upset was when I accidentally killed Garrus. never again bro, never again.

[Kavadas]

numotsbane wrote...

I enjoy the chaos of having lots of people die. in a way I think it adds to ME2, after 3 runs I found saving everyone really boring. it seems more dramatic and realistic to have some people bite the dust.
But I'd never kill my favourites. which means inevitably its tali, jacob and thane who bite the dust. The only time I ever felt upset was when I accidentally killed Garrus. never again bro, never again.

I agree, the mission just doesn't feel epic or "suicidal" enough if everyone comes back.  My canon Shep dumped Thane, Jack, and Jacob.

First time I played through, without any guides or anything, I lost Legion in the vents (though he was loyal, weird).  Everyone else was loyal with full ship upgrades.  Not exactly sure what happened there.

[GodWood]

I absolutely hate Jacob and Miranda but refuse to kill them off in my canon save as that'd require my Shepard to completely break character and make a stupid/incompetent choice.

[ObserverStatus]

Well, for one thing, with the exception of Sten, you can't just kick the ass of a character you don't like and than let them live.

[numotsbane]

What about Archer from overlord? you just back hand him. he does seem kind of stupid too.

also cheers bobobo878, your guide thingy finally got me the priiized arcade fire profile pic.

[MaaZeus]

The whole thing people killing characters just because the dislike them is just mindblowing. What kind of Commander are they roleplaying? How does s/he treat his/her squadmates who have placed their lives on your hands and on the mission and he gets them killed just because he doesnt like them? Or even worse, does the player get them killed due to reasons that are totally out of the game world, like dislike of that characters fandom etc..? Thats bit immature IMHO. Its still your choice though. But trolling about it in forums character fanthreads... that is just epic facepalm act...

Also why one has to let other peoples opinions define what you like? Form your own opinions!

I like Tali, so yeah I am kinda Talimancer. But I hate the overblown "Talimancer" fancult around her who take things way too far (not all of it is tongue-in-the-cheek attidute it seems), and also her comercialisation is bit worrying. I like her because she was kinda cool and interesting in ME1, and in ME2 she is absolutely best written as a character out of all squadmates IMHO. They really put some effort when making her even if her presence is mostly fanservice for ME1 fans. Too bad Garrus didnt get the same treatment as he was my fav character in ME1, together with Wrex.

ExtremeOne wrote...

...and on top of that she has no
problem with doing weapons test on the Geth....

Perhaps you should take another look on Tali, her dialog and her quest. She was
disgusted at what her father was doing. Doing experiments on pieces and
whatever, no different than doing experiments with pieces of
electronics or at worst dead organs that were once alive. But she
loathed the idea of doing experiments on sentient/sapient things, she
disapproved what her father was doing.

Oh well...

Modifié par MaaZeus, 05 septembre 2010 - 11:34 .

[MaaZeus]

lyssalu wrote...

Okay, now that is very funny. The "Deal with it." makes this a comedy gold.

[MaaZeus]

didymos1120 wrote...

By traditional definitions of the term, Miranda is far more fanservice than Tali is. Hell, even Samara fits the original definition better, what with all that cleavage. It's somewhat more accurate to say that the Tali romance is fanservice, though it's still not of the "skimpy outfits and jiggle-physics" variety.

True. Tali may be a fanservice, but atleast she is not "fanservice" in a way that word is usually known, meaning fishing fans with unnecessary sex-appeal. Well... except for "dat ass"... I kid I kid.

Modifié par MaaZeus, 05 septembre 2010 - 11:43 .

[Asheer_Khan]

In ME 1 i always left Kaidan on Virmire mostly because of his VOing which too much remind me very certain person from galaxy far away which i really hated because of his attitude toward my character... sad thing is that Kaidan was made as almost mirror personality of that character.



In ME 2 i brought back everyone from C-base... but lately Jacob start to walk on the Katana edge... and there is no guarantee at all that he will return from C-base during my current run.

Most reasons at my changing stance toward him lays in his approach to FemShep... and that should be in off what i say in this matter.

[MaaZeus]

Asheer_Khan wrote...

In ME 1 i always left Kaidan on Virmire mostly because of his VOing which too much remind me very certain person from galaxy far away which i really hated because of his attitude toward my character... sad thing is that Kaidan was made as almost mirror personality of that character.

In ME 2 i brought back everyone from C-base... but lately Jacob start to walk on the Katana edge... and there is no guarantee at all that he will return from C-base during my current run.
Most reasons at my changing stance toward him lays in his approach to FemShep... and that should be in off what i say in this matter.

But... but... the priiize!

[Chuvvy]

The game doesn't allow you to be a douche to Tali.

[spacehamsterZH]

Slidell505 wrote...

The game doesn't allow you to be a douche to Tali.

You can give up the evidence at her trial, and she never forgives you. That's what I did in my "be the biggest douche possible to everyone" playthrough - then I got her killed in the end.

Anyway, to answer the question, I think the reason people kill off characters they don't like might have something to do with the fact that they're... you know... imaginary characters? Not real people? Just a thought. Also, I did make sure everyone survived in my first playthrough, but if you play through the game a couple of times, you want to see how the different possibilities play out, plus I want a couple different saves to import to ME3 and see what happens.

And generally, I've always felt the ending was more dramatic if not everyone makes it out alive.