58 réponses à ce sujet

[didymos1120]

Yes, Firewalker.  Had a lot cut from it too, for such a short DLC.  And yes, that pun is terrible.  I care not. 



If nothing else, this confirms beyond doubt that the Hammerhead was originally supposed to be in the final release. Also settles a minor debate over who in the hell this scientist dude you were trying to find the whole time really was.

Modifié par didymos1120, 10 septembre 2010 - 11:13 .

[AntiChri5]

Three cheers for Diddy.

[Water Dumple]

Interesting. Didn't expect that guy to actually be worth more than a diversion in ME1.

Definitely glad your squadmates aren't all shouting at you when the M-44 approaches impending doom. Some things needed the cut.

Modifié par Water Dumple, 05 septembre 2010 - 06:25 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

Good ol' Zaeed.



And thanks, it really is a shame they cut out so many connections to the first game.

[khevan]

Wish they'd let the connection to ME1 stay in, but the rest isn't too upsetting that it's gone.



Still, it's cool to know the "truth."

[didymos1120]

Water Dumple wrote...
Definitely glad your squadmates aren't all shouting at you when the M-44 approaches appending doom.

Well, they will. Sometimes.  There's a different set of "OMG WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!" files that do play when the Hammerhead is "critical" (i.e., as soon as it's been hit by approximately two bullets on most difficulties), but it's surprisingly hard to trigger them. 

The only quasi-reliable way I found (though I was actually trying to trigger the ones in the vid) was by repeatedly running into the giant shield protecting the Prothean site on purpose and on Casual, because otherwise you pretty much just instantly detonate. Occasionally, they'll trigger when you're getting wrecked by the geth.  99% of the time, though, you just die before anyone can get a word in. 

Modifié par didymos1120, 05 septembre 2010 - 06:16 .

[Skyblade012]

Is it just me, or did Manuel get way more awesome between ME1 and ME2 if these logs had stayed in?

[Water Dumple]

didymos1120 wrote...

Water Dumple wrote...
Definitely glad your squadmates aren't all shouting at you when the M-44 approaches appending doom.

Well, they will. Sometimes.  There's a different set of "OMG WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!" files that do play when the Hammerhead is "critical" (i.e., as soon as it's been hit by approximately two bullets on most difficulties), but it's surprisingly hard to trigger them. 

The only quasi-reliable way I found (though I was actually trying to trigger the ones in the vid) was by repeatedly running into the giant shield protecting the Prothean site on purpose and on Casual, because otherwise you pretty much just instantly detonate. Occasionally, they'll trigger when you're getting wrecked by the geth.  99% of the time, though, you just die before anyone can get a word in. 

There simply isn't enough breathing room for there to really be dialogue on those Hammerhead areas; the map layouts work for the vehicle, but the enemies are practically more than the Mako had to deal with. The design just didn't make sense.

Not sure how to keep this from sounding like complete bull****, but I actually haven't died in the Hammerhead before, although I've only done the mission set once on Veteran (only just got the Cerberus Network things yesterday). Regardless, the things you have to do to stay alive are ridiculous; it's like Super Mario Tank, except there aren't any 1-ups.

[Mister Mida]

*tsk tsk tsk* Bioware, you silly people. Kudos to didy once again.

[AresXX7]

Water Dumple wrote...

Interesting. Didn't expect that guy to actually be worth more than a diversion in ME1.

Definitely glad your squadmates aren't all shouting at you when the M-44 approaches impending doom. Some things needed the cut.

Regardless, how small it is, these little things really could make the game(s) more immersive tenfold.
It's a shame, they didn't leave in Manuel's dialogue, it would have shown that even the most casual encounters make a difference.

I agree, the squad dialogue didn't need to be in, also.

[didymos1120]

Water Dumple wrote...

Not sure how to keep this from sounding like complete bull****, but I actually haven't died in the Hammerhead before, although I've only done the mission set once on Veteran (only just got the Cerberus Network things yesterday). Regardless, the things you have to do to stay alive are ridiculous; it's like Super Mario Tank, except there aren't any 1-ups.

I can see that happening.  It's not that hard to not die, though it certainly helps if you're aware of how fragile the thing really is.  I made the mistake of playing those levels for the first time on Insanity, and I went in blind without reading any reviews or checking forums, etc.  So, I just charged in Mako-style on the first fight and got a bit of shock.  I was convinced it had to be a glitch, so I did it again and realized, no, it really is just made of unshielded rice paper.  The platforming didn't really bother me much, though.  I missed some jumps here and there, but never died because of it.

What I found surprising was that after setting it to Casual to try and trigger these lines, it's still ridiculously easy to die in combat.  Granted, I was letting stuff shoot me on purpose but it doesn't take much more to die on that difficulty than it does on Insanity. Environmental hazards seemed much more forgiving, though.  Of course, as I soon realized, they will only trigger their own unique VI lines (but sometimes they won't even do that), so they were useless for testing purposes.

[AresXX7]

didymos1120 wrote...

Water Dumple wrote...

Not sure how to keep this from sounding like complete bull****, but I actually haven't died in the Hammerhead before, although I've only done the mission set once on Veteran (only just got the Cerberus Network things yesterday). Regardless, the things you have to do to stay alive are ridiculous; it's like Super Mario Tank, except there aren't any 1-ups.

 So, I just charged in Mako-style on the first fight and got a bit of shock.  I was convinced it had to be a glitch, so I did it again and realized, no, it really is just made of unshielded rice paper. 

I think that was the biggest problem, going from the Mako to the Hammerhead, we were so used to how much of a beating the former could take & expected the same for the latter.

[didymos1120]

AriesXX7 wrote...
I think that was the biggest problem, going from the Mako to the Hammerhead, we were so used to how much of a beating the former could take & expected the same for the latter.

The other thing the Mako had going for it was that if you screwed up and it started smoking, you had plenty of time to jump out and finish whatever you were fighting off on foot.  What's funny about the Hammerhead though is that in one respect, it totally owns the Mako:  it can actually tolerate lava long enough to get away from it.  I died once on Therum while cruising along and had no clue what in the hell had just happened.  Finally thought that maybe it was the lava and tested the theory after I reloaded by driving straight into some.  Had no clue lava was insta-death before that.  As best I can tell, I'd clipped the very edge of a pool while cutting a corner. 


Wait...am I deraling my own thread?

[AresXX7]

didymos1120 wrote...

Wait...am I deraling my own thread?

Nope, just expanding it. 

[Burdokva]

F--- EA's policy cutting content and making it DLC. I want this restored in the game!

It's one thing to cut some of the dialogue from the training section (although fighting a door is pure genius!) but this is somewhere between lazy and insulting. What's the point of cutting it? It only adds up to an otherwise paper-thin story in the Hammerhead missions...

By the way, I'm working to make the Hammerhead like the make, an actual tough tank with .ini tweaks, so those lines would have been great. Nope, we got a platform-jumper instead of a combat vehicle.

EDIT: Didymos, just out of curiosity, have you ever checked how much dialogue was cut from the original Mass Effect, yet still present on the disk/within DLC files?

Modifié par Burdokva, 05 septembre 2010 - 08:09 .

[Water Dumple]

Burdokva wrote...

F--- EA's policy cutting content and making it DLC. I want this restored in the game!

It's one thing to cut some of the dialogue from the training section (although fighting a door is pure genius!) but this is somewhere between lazy and insulting. What's the point of cutting it? It only adds up to an otherwise paper-thin story in the Hammerhead missions...

EA sees a megabyte of file size as a dollar sign. They try to shuffle these around to get consumers paying for as much as they can, without realizing that it has a large impact on the rest of the game money.

[didymos1120]

Burdokva wrote...
EDIT: Didymos, just out of curiosity, have you ever checked how much dialogue was cut from the original Mass Effect, yet still present on the disk/within DLC files?

I started fiddling with that, but put it aside.  I've found a few lines just sort of randomly poking around, but decided to go through it later, once I've finished with ME2.  There's so much dialogue in 2 (seriously: it's a whole hell of a lot) that verifying that something really isn't used can take a while. If you're lucky, someone triggered it and has a vid on Youtube.  Usually though, to my great irritation, people always seem to skip exactly those dialogue options I want to hear. Bastards.

Back to ME1: some is already known.  There's MShep dialouge for a romance with Kaidan, and for FemShep with Ash. 
There's also this vid on Youtube by CShep25 with some extra combat taunts from Robo-Saren and Shep and the gang edited in:



However much there is, it won't  be nearly as much as ME2 though, because they just didn't have nearly as many lines to record in the first place.

[HBC Dresden]

I have no idea why they would cut Manuel from Firewalker. It would have added a worthwhile easter egg/story detail since we saw that Manuel actually described what would happen if the Reapers got here. So this follow up would have been nice.

[didymos1120]

HBC Dresden wrote...

I have no idea why they would cut Manuel from Firewalker. It would have added a worthwhile easter egg/story detail since we saw that Manuel actually described what would happen if the Reapers got here. So this follow up would have been nice.

Well, the most likely scenario is that these assignments got cut way early on because the Hammerhead wasn't working out (or wasn't even the Hammerhead, possibly.  All the "taking damage" and "we're gonna die" files have "mako" in the name, so maybe they were originally going to just have a souped up version of that, and then got all ambitious with the hovertank idea which ended up backfiring by falling utterly behind schedule to the point it would have delayed release if they tried to finish it).  Thus, they never ended up implementing the code to check that import variable, so when they finally released a really scaled-back version as Firewalker, it just wasn't practical to try and put it in and do all the testing to make sure it worked, etc.  And without that check, all you'd get is complaining if someone, say, decked him and he didn't mention that, or they didn't deck him and he said you did.   I don't get them cutting out the non-import related logs though.

[smudboy]

Love how everyone comments on the thing taking damage. Go Jack.

[TMA LIVE]

didymos1120 wrote...

Yes, Firewalker.  Had a lot cut from it too, for such a short DLC.  And yes, that pun is terrible.  I care not. 



If nothing else, this confirms beyond doubt that the Hammerhead was originally supposed to be in the final release. Also settles a minor debate over who in the hell this scientist dude you were trying to find the whole time really was.

I'm still wondering where that guy is. He says he was going to destroy the relic and himself, yet the relic's right there. Why didn't he destroy it?

[glacier1701]

Another great find. I am really concerned now about ME3. With all the changes that appear to have gone on internally during development of ME2 makes me wonder if somehow BW either did not give enough resources to the project OR if months of work got thrown out because it would narrow down the "appeal" to a wide range of people. While I am familiar with how things can change inside game development it does seem that there were a whole hell of a lot more potholes in the development of ME2 than there should have been. Makes you wonder what could have been had the intitial plan been more 'realistic'.

[smudboy]

@glacier1701

This could simply be their version of polish. Though it's not specifically based on storytelling, it's asset management and how it works within a game play element. For example, some N7 missions had all squadmates give a few one liners based on the scene (e.g. N7: MSV Strontium Mule), those were event triggers for certain areas. The event triggers for the Hammerhead would've been multiple and redundant: whenever the thing gets hit (which is a lot.) At the cost/time to simply balance the game play factor of its durability, it is simply easier to remove the content entirely. (As well as hearing the same line over and over based on who's in the thing, as opposed to just hearing the warning siren.)

[TMA LIVE]

smudboy wrote...

@glacier1701
This could simply be their version of polish. Though it's not specifically based on storytelling, it's asset management and how it works within a game play element. For example, some N7 missions had all squadmates give a few one liners based on the scene (e.g. N7: MSV Strontium Mule), those were event triggers for certain areas. The event triggers for the Hammerhead would've been multiple and redundant: whenever the thing gets hit (which is a lot.) At the cost/time to simply balance the game play factor of its durability, it is simply easier to remove the content entirely. (As well as hearing the same line over and over based on who's in the thing, as opposed to just hearing the warning siren.)

Like in ME1, where the enemies keep saying "I WILL DESTROY YOU! I WILL DESTROY YOU!"

[Water Dumple]

TMA LIVE wrote...

smudboy wrote...

@glacier1701
This could simply be their version of polish. Though it's not specifically based on storytelling, it's asset management and how it works within a game play element. For example, some N7 missions had all squadmates give a few one liners based on the scene (e.g. N7: MSV Strontium Mule), those were event triggers for certain areas. The event triggers for the Hammerhead would've been multiple and redundant: whenever the thing gets hit (which is a lot.) At the cost/time to simply balance the game play factor of its durability, it is simply easier to remove the content entirely. (As well as hearing the same line over and over based on who's in the thing, as opposed to just hearing the warning siren.)

Like in ME1, where the enemies keep saying "I WILL DESTROY YOU! I WILL DESTROY YOU!"

Damn, that was annoying. ME2 got the combat dialogue better in every way, with the exception of Harbinger who won't shut the **** up.