133 réponses à ce sujet

[FouCapitan]

xbeton0L wrote...

from the mind - to the physical. reproduction. the meld is a compromise of the asari's partner's DNA. how and why does the asari necessarily copy DNA?

From what I understand, they don't.  The meld randomizes existing Asari DNA, with certain variables showing up depending on the 'Father'.  Certain variables being apt to appear in Asari/Asari mergers, and others more likely in Asari/Krogan mergers, etc.  No actual genes are gained from the 'Father' in Asari mating.
 

how is it an evolutionary process? by this syntax, 'melding' isn't something that occurs naturally, and i am left with the conclusion that this might be one of two things... either an advanced form of asexual reproduction - or, something artificial. likewise, as programs would copy themselves - setting random seeds for diversity of the new program's function.

An advanced form of asexual reproduction seems a fairly accurate statement.  My theory is that when they reach the matron stage, ready to concieve, a single cell (like a prefertilized Zygote) is ready to begin life.  In it, is a full Asari genetic strand, every possible gene from that Asari's full lineage going back tens of thousands of years.  When the bonding occurs, it's like rolling the dice on those genes.  Only 1 set will come out dominant in the Asari child, and that is dependant on the "pattern" that the 'Father' of the pairing provides.  Whether it's the father's genetic code, brainwave functions, or something less tangible that determines this pattern is unclear.  What we do know is that there is a variable provided by them, perhaps even as far as genetic mutation (evolution), to the child in the process.

[xbeton0L]

yorkj86 wrote...

xbeton0L wrote...

from the mind - to the physical. reproduction. the meld is a compromise of the asari's partner's DNA. how and why does the asari necessarily copy DNA? how is it an evolutionary process? by this syntax, 'melding' isn't something that occurs naturally, and i am left with the conclusion that this might be one of two things... either an advanced form of asexual reproduction - or, something artificial. 

I hate to get in to asari genetics, because related conversations only produce headaches, but...

We are told in ME2 that evidence that asari actually use their partners' DNA for reproduction is anecdotal.  It cannot be substantiated.  Comments about asari with parents from certain species having different personalities are referring to parenting, not genetics.  The asari with the krogan suitor says that asari don't use their partners' DNA.  The asari related to Shiala's mission says that the asari could even use radiation in place of partners.

Instead, an asari merely uses the spark of her partner's nervous system, his/her presence, to randomize her own genetic information, producing a child that is sufficiently genetically different, but very similar.  It's one reason why the Ardat-Yakshi exist.  The process of randomization is only adequate, but it doesn't make up for the fact that asari reproduction is asexual.  Asexual reproduction does not produce genetic variation on the order of sexual reproduction.  This is probably why the Ardat-Yakshi exist.

forgive me. i may have been mistaken about DNA consumption. however, it still does not rule out my point - they essentially use the thought patterns of their partners (telepathic processes) to randomize their own genetic makeup (reproductively) and essentially generate a symbiotic copy of the asari and her partner. still, it does not explain why the asari reproduce this way.

[xbeton0L]

FouCapitan wrote...

xbeton0L wrote...

from the mind - to the physical. reproduction. the meld is a compromise of the asari's partner's DNA. how and why does the asari necessarily copy DNA?

From what I understand, they don't.  The meld randomizes existing Asari DNA, with certain variables showing up depending on the 'Father'.  Certain variables being apt to appear in Asari/Asari mergers, and others more likely in Asari/Krogan mergers, etc.  No actual genes are gained from the 'Father' in Asari mating.
 

how is it an evolutionary process? by this syntax, 'melding' isn't something that occurs naturally, and i am left with the conclusion that this might be one of two things... either an advanced form of asexual reproduction - or, something artificial. likewise, as programs would copy themselves - setting random seeds for diversity of the new program's function.

An advanced form of asexual reproduction seems a fairly accurate statement.  My theory is that when they reach the matron stage, ready to concieve, a single cell (like a prefertilized Zygote) is ready to begin life.  In it, is a full Asari genetic strand, every possible gene from that Asari's full lineage going back tens of thousands of years.  When the bonding occurs, it's like rolling the dice on those genes.  Only 1 set will come out dominant in the Asari child, and that is dependant on the "pattern" that the 'Father' of the pairing provides.  Whether it's the father's genetic code, brainwave functions, or something less tangible that determines this pattern is unclear.  What we do know is that there is a variable provided by them, perhaps even as far as genetic mutation (evolution), to the child in the process.

which would be wonderful, however i still want you to think outside the frame of what's been said via wikia. this is where i'm going: all life evolved on its own. the asari were the result of a precomposed genetic material based on pre-existing life. basically saying they didn't start out like the rest of us. just throwing the thought out there, and trying to help explain why they look like human females.

[xbeton0L]

yorkj86 wrote...

xbeton0L wrote...

well why wouldn't they? the Protheans and Reapers definitely were aware of our existence before we knew of theirs. seeding a planet with eezo would be as fundamental as drinking water treated with fluoride. by "synthetically created" I mean this; the creation of earth, and other life-bearing planets across the galaxy - could have been manipulated, but lets say it wasn't - these planets were chosen as cultivation grounds for evolving life(humans, turians, salarians, quarians, etc), with the ground task of developing mental capacity (e.g. intelligence) - after these life forms came to fruition, and in relation to the DNA samplings collected from planet to planet, the genetic material could have been synthesized into a more efficient life form - retaining beneficial traits from each species and planet, to cultivate in a *special* environment - to add the seeding of eezo - thus, we have the asari race. by "synthetic" i mean synthesized. engineered.

If the primate-analogues on Thessis are to asari what chimpanzees are to humans, how would they fit in to your assertion that the asari are an accumulation of all of the best traits of the other species?

giving reason to probable cause. that's all.

Modifié par xbeton0L, 19 septembre 2010 - 04:13 .

[xbeton0L]

yorkj86 wrote...

xbeton0L wrote...

forgive me. i may have been mistaken about DNA consumption. however, it still does not rule out my point - they essentially use the thought patterns of their partners (telepathic processes) to randomize their own genetic makeup (reproductively) and essentially generate a symbiotic copy of the asari and her partner. still, it does not explain why the asari reproduce this way.

Again, the "father" serves no role other than to be present.  An asari child is a randomized version of its mother.  The "father" is in no way involed, other than that it must be present for conception to occur.  The "father"'s "thought patterns" are not involved.

As for why the asari reproduce this way, it's more science-fiction than reality.  Perhaps they just do reproduce this way.

ok. they just do. fair enough. i was trying to go a bit further than with only how they reproduce. but you can't deny the child is essentially a copy of it's parent. 

[xbeton0L]

yorkj86 wrote...

xbeton0L wrote...

giving reason to probable cause. that's all.

So you're saying that the Protheans/Reapers created the primate analogues first, and the primate analogue eventually diverged in to the asari.

exactly. say you did this to a population of mice by placing them in a ridiculously large cage, designed to house them for thousands of years. then triggered evolutionary patterns within them to see if they would evolve to adapt given varied but controlled circumstances. similar to the gap between human intelligence and animal sentience, and not directly knowing why. but with asari, and a planet to play on.

Modifié par xbeton0L, 19 septembre 2010 - 04:27 .

[Getorex]

Don't overthink it.   It cannot come to a good end as it would be internally contradictory.

[xbeton0L]

yorkj86 wrote...

xbeton0L wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...

xbeton0L wrote...

giving reason to probable cause. that's all.

So you're saying that the Protheans/Reapers created the primate analogues first, and the primate analogue eventually diverged in to the asari.

exactly. say you did this to a population of mice by placing them in a ridiculously large cage, designed to house them for thousands of years. then triggered evolutionary patterns within them to see if they would evolve to adapt given varied but controlled circumstances. similar to the gap between human intelligence and animal sentience, and not directly knowing why. but with asari, and a planet to play on.

Seems slightly suspect.  Why would the asari's genetic ancestor have a primate-analogue appearance?  If it has that arrangement, and if it is a synthesis of the traits of several other species, why would it look that way, specifically?

eh? well, i think we're both overthinking this. lets keep it simple.

the Protheans/Reapers carefully modeled the way the asari evolved. the asari, not knowing, were genetically modified but made asexual as a gratuitous consequence.

since i personally find them quite too perfect and oddly flawless.

Modifié par xbeton0L, 19 septembre 2010 - 04:46 .

[Sigma Tauri]

NewMessageN00b wrote...
I meant the standpoint of pleasure, but, whatever.

That's delving into xenophilia.

Do you really want to go there?

[Getorex]

monkeycamoran wrote...

NewMessageN00b wrote...
I meant the standpoint of pleasure, but, whatever.

That's delving into xenophilia.

Do you really want to go there?

The whole game is LOADED with xenophilia.  Just a different version of bestiality, really, except the creatures all have roughly equivalent minds but (evolutionarily speaking) absolutely impossibly incompatible bodies, physiologies, reproductive methods, etc...  It is best to skip all that stuff and just accept that this is a game.

[Spornicus]

None of you know the exact physiology of any species in ME except for humans (hopefully....), so none of you can really say various species are incompatible. Can't have children maybe (with the exception of the asari), but not incompatible. Unless you know exactly what a turian or krogan looks like...down there...just assume the asari have the necessary hardware for all species.

[xbeton0L]

Spornicus wrote...

None of you know the exact physiology of any species in ME except for humans (hopefully....), so none of you can really say various species are incompatible. Can't have children maybe (with the exception of the asari), but not incompatible. Unless you know exactly what a turian or krogan looks like...down there...just assume the asari have the necessary hardware for all species.

i have to take what you say seriously. it's like mission briefing all over again.

also, dextro-based life forms wouldn't be that incompatible. actually I'd like to think they're more touchable than what Prof. Solus cared to elaborate.

[Quething]

yorkj86 wrote...

Again, the "father" serves no role other than to be present.  An asari child is a randomized version of its mother.  The "father" is in no way involed, other than that it must be present for conception to occur.  The "father"'s "thought patterns" are not involved.

If this were true, Ardat-Yakshi would not be a pureblood affliction. If there is a potential outcome of mating that is quantifiably more likely with asari "fathars" than with non-asari "fathers," that is incontovertible proof that the father is contributing something to the process.

Think about it in terms of cryptography, with the mother's genetic code as the original message, the father's genetic code as the encryption key, and the child's genetic code as the encrypted text. The information is all from the mother, but what the message ends up looking like after encryption will change depending on the father. And similar fathers will be more likely to generate certain letter combinations (using displacement ciphers/asari fathers will always produce alphabetical messages/longstanding asari traits, while numeric substitution ciphers/krogan fathers will produce numerical messages/completely new traits, for instance).

[Quething]

yorkj86 wrote...

I'm telling you what is stated in-game.

By some specific characters, with their own biases, who contradict other characters who say other things, yes. Except still not quite, because the game only says that asari don't get traits from their fathers.

The clearest statement we have that there's no real meaning to the father's input ("radiation would do just as well") is from a hardline xenophobe with an axe to grind, and even that acknowledges that external input is different from asari input (notice she doesn't say "we don't get diversity from other species that we can't get from asari", but rather that that diversity can be attained through other means). We also have hearsay from a Matriarch bartender who says "scientests say all that stuff about us getting traits from the father is crap." Which, again, only means that asari don't get genetic traits from their second parent; that's very, very different from saying the second parent isn't contributing anything. Again, look at the cryptography example; if your encryption key is "the quick brown fox", none of those four words are going to show up anywhere in the resulting ciphertext, making Aethyeta's scientests' statement true. The encryption key is still, however, an extremely relevant piece of the end product.

Modifié par Quething, 19 septembre 2010 - 06:14 .