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[upsettingshorts]

I went with this route for "best story"

* Warden romances Morrigan
* Alistair hardened and convinced to marry Anora
* Loghain is inducted into the Wardens, Alistair leaves party but will still be King
* Dark Ritual is refused. Warden and Morrigan effectively break up there.
* Loghain dies fighting the Archdemon

I didn't bother having my Warden chase after Morrigan, that ship has sailed, so he went all businesslike and just dedicated his life to the Wardens.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 07 septembre 2010 - 09:38 .

[AndrahilAdrian]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I went with this route for "best story"

* Warden romances Morrigan
* Alistair hardened and convinced to marry Anora
* Loghain is inducted into the Wardens, Alistair leaves party but will still be King
* Dark Ritual is refused. Warden and Morrigan effectively break up there.
* Loghain dies fighting the Archdemon

I didn't bother having my Warden chase after Morrigan, that ship has sailed, so he went all businesslike and just dedicated his life to the Wardens.

Nice...but why do you refuse the ritual (in game I mean) if you're in love with Morri you probably trust her...

[Jotun35]

I agree with this 110%, but Alistair's romance was more tragic than Morrigans (and much less forced, IMO) if one of you sacrifices yourself.

Yes... But it's an eventuality.
I guess it's pretty much the same if Alistair become king and the femGreyWarden supplanted by Anora (or maybe it's just disapointing, not tragic).

[upsettingshorts]

AndrahilAdrian wrote...
Nice...but why do you refuse the ritual (in game I mean) if you're in love with Morri you probably trust her...

Because if she trusted my Warden she would have told him as soon as she knew of it - which might have been as early as Lothering - when she was away from Flemeth - or after getting the real Grimoire.  Holding it back that long is manipulative and cynical.  Furthermore the break up wouldn't have been something the Warden wanted, but was more Morrigan storming out because he didn't want to do something he viewed as unnatural and unneccessary, as he already had plans for Loghain.

The Warden would have been happy if Morrigan stuck around even without the Dark Ritual, but obviously she wasn't going to have that and that was more important to her than the relationship - so that's the way it had to be.

[AndrahilAdrian]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

AndrahilAdrian wrote...
Nice...but why do you refuse the ritual (in game I mean) if you're in love with Morri you probably trust her...

Because if she trusted my Warden she would have told him as soon as she knew of it - which might have been as early as Lothering - when she was away from Flemeth - or after getting the real Grimoire.  Holding it back that long is manipulative and cynical.  Furthermore the break up wouldn't have been something the Warden wanted, but was more Morrigan storming out because he didn't want to do something he viewed as unnatural and unneccessary, as he already had plans for Loghain.

The Warden would have been happy if Morrigan stuck around even without the Dark Ritual, but obviously she wasn't going to have that and that was more important to her than the relationship - so that's the way it had to be.

So your Morrigan is "manipulative and cynical" to the end, despite the romance? Thats not really bittersweet, its just depressing. I do like your ending though, It seems the best way to romance morri and avoid the loose end nightmare that is the dark ritual.

[upsettingshorts]

AndrahilAdrian wrote...

So your Morrigan is "manipulative and cynical" to the end, despite the romance? Thats not really bittersweet, its just depressing. I do like your ending though, It seems the best way to romance morri and avoid the loose end nightmare that is the dark ritual.

Yeah, I like to pretend my Warden and Morrigan were in denial.  Morrigan's is more or less spelled out during the romance, she makes it clear she's having second thoughts as it progresses toward the end.  Warden just didn't want to believe her and probably thought she was just being difficult for the sake of it.  The whole Ritual proposal opened his eyes, but if she had dropped it they probly woulda worked it out.  But she didn't, and that's that.

But really the best part of that ending for me is it makes Loghain a fascinating character when it comes to fictional history.  Fictional Ferelden historians would debate his actions and character for centuries.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 07 septembre 2010 - 09:57 .

[AndrahilAdrian]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

AndrahilAdrian wrote...

So your Morrigan is "manipulative and cynical" to the end, despite the romance? Thats not really bittersweet, its just depressing. I do like your ending though, It seems the best way to romance morri and avoid the loose end nightmare that is the dark ritual.

Yeah, I like to pretend my Warden and Morrigan were in denial.  Morrigan's is more or less spelled out during the romance, she makes it clear she's having second thoughts as it progresses toward the end.  Warden just didn't want to believe her and probably thought she was just being difficult for the sake of it.  The whole Ritual proposal opened his eyes, but if she had dropped it they probly woulda worked it out.  But she didn't, and that's that.

I guess it provides nice deconstruction in that it shows you can't change a person.

[Kolena3]

Not true. ^ If you get the epilogue for a male Warden who romanced Morrigan and got the ring, I believe it says something of the lines of the ring revealing that Morrigan felt regret, but then it doesn't reveal anything more. That's proof enough for me.

[AndrahilAdrian]

Kolena3 wrote...

Not true. ^ If you get the epilogue for a male Warden who romanced Morrigan and got the ring, I believe it says something of the lines of the ring revealing that Morrigan felt regret, but then it doesn't reveal anything more. That's proof enough for me.

This doesn't happen if you don't do the Ritual.

[upsettingshorts]

Kolena3 wrote...

Not true. ^ If you get the epilogue for a male Warden who romanced Morrigan and got the ring, I believe it says something of the lines of the ring revealing that Morrigan felt regret, but then it doesn't reveal anything more. That's proof enough for me.

How does that contradict anything?

Proof of what?

Everything I said - even the stuff I pretend about denial and motives - still works if Morrigan has regrets about it. 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 07 septembre 2010 - 10:05 .

[Kolena3]

I was replying to Andrahil's post. I was saying it was proof enough for me that she *was* changed by the Warden. She felt regret for what she had done. She wouldn't have if she wasn't changed by the Warden in some way.



And it doesn't happen if you don't do the ritual because the only time she gives it to you is, if I recall correctly, after you *HAVE* done the ritual, at Denerim. Without the ring you are not capable of perceiving her emotions.

[upsettingshorts]

Nah, she gives you the ring much earlier.

[Kolena3]

Really? Urgh, sorry, my memory is foggy. Still, I take it as a sign that she was changed by the Warden, she feels regret, that is undeniable, and so she was indeed changed. And besides, I can't see how anyone who played her romances can refute that she experienced genuine loving emotions. Morrigan may be manipulative, yeah (she even admits it herself), but she is clearly frightened when she is both romanced by the Warden and when she finds out about Flemeth's ploy. That is a clear display of change of her character in my opinion.

[upsettingshorts]

Yeah, I think she changed - in exactly the way you describe - but she still had a choice between the romance or her mission. She chose the latter.

Edit:  Now that I think of it, so did the Warden.  C'est la vie.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 07 septembre 2010 - 10:54 .

[Estelindis]

Interesting to compare Bioware's ME2 data with our social site polls.  Could it be that a higher proportion of female to male gamers is simply interested enough in the story and characters of Bioware's games to comment and vote on them online, compared with the number who simply play and move on?

Jotun35 wrote...
Modern two-handed sword made of modern steel, right ?

Wrong, actually.

But you, a man, train regularly with and know you are capable of wielding a medieval two-handed sword made of old steel, right?   

[Estelindis]

MariSkep wrote...
This is way off topic...

I'll PM you. 

[Wishpig]

Kordillus Drakon wrote...

What about people who want to play both?

Ya, in bioware games I always play a male character first and then a female character in my 2nd run through. Whatever makes my 2nd run through feel diffrent then the first I go for.

[Jotun35]

This doesn't happen if you don't do the Ritual.

It does ! I was pretty surprised when I see such end with my noble human. He have romanced Leliana AND Morrigan but choose Leliana in the end (but then my warden become king with Anora as queen and Leliana didn't want to be his mistress )... But ! Morrigan was pregnant (but I guess it would be a "normal" child because I have refused the dark ritual) anyway !

MariSkep wrote...

This
is way off topic but, um, how would you use a two handed sword in
combat? I've seen some of these close up and they look like you'd have
to be a madman to rush into a fight with one. It always looked like iot
would take to much muscle just to swing the thing and while I can tell
it could cleave right through someone, it also looked like it would
leave your entire body exposed while you were in the process of heaving
it up to bring it back down.

Well, a 4 kg sword isn't that much... But add 30 kg of armor (which is not an heavy armor)  + a backpack... And then you understand why women wasn't soldiers until guns appear (plus some obvious physiological reasons) !

Modifié par Jotun35, 07 septembre 2010 - 02:30 .

[Wishpig]

MariSkep wrote...

Well, a 4 kg sword isn't that much... But add 30 kg of armor (which is not an heavy armor) + a backpack... And then you understand why women wasn't soldiers until guns appear 

Er, no? Armor wasn't all that common and it was very expensive. The majority of the people in battles were peasants with pitchforks. The nobility had the fancy armor and swords.

Plus, plenty of women could do that with the proper training, anyone could really if they put the effort.

Bottom line... it doesn't matter. In most fantasy RPG's, hell, in most fantasy franchises (including DA), you have people (men and women alike) pulling off crazy moves in massive armor that would never allow for it. The reality of wieght and movement restrictions imposed by heavy armor has been waved off more often then not.

Modifié par Wishpig, 07 septembre 2010 - 03:41 .

[Saibh]

Wishpig wrote...

MariSkep wrote...

Well, a 4 kg sword isn't that much... But add 30 kg of armor (which is not an heavy armor) + a backpack... And then you understand why women wasn't soldiers until guns appear 

Er, no? Armor wasn't all that common and it was very expensive. The majority of the people in battles were peasants with pitchforks. The nobility had the fancy armor and swords.

Plus, plenty of women could do that with the proper training, anyone could really if they put the effort.

Bottom line... it doesn't matter. In most fantasy RPG's, hell, in most fantasy franchises (including DA), you have people (men and women alike) pulling off crazy moves in massive armor that would never allow for it. The reality of wieght and movement restrictions imposed by heavy armor has been waved off more often then not.

Actually well-made plate armor weighed less then our current modern infantry soldier gear, which, if you recall, women do wear. It was also better distributed. People in plate armor had to be able to duck, roll, jog, and fight for lengthy amounts of time.

[Clover Rider]

Saibh wrote...

Wishpig wrote...

MariSkep wrote...

Well, a 4 kg sword isn't that much... But add 30 kg of armor (which is not an heavy armor) + a backpack... And then you understand why women wasn't soldiers until guns appear 

Er, no? Armor wasn't all that common and it was very expensive. The majority of the people in battles were peasants with pitchforks. The nobility had the fancy armor and swords.

Plus, plenty of women could do that with the proper training, anyone could really if they put the effort.

Bottom line... it doesn't matter. In most fantasy RPG's, hell, in most fantasy franchises (including DA), you have people (men and women alike) pulling off crazy moves in massive armor that would never allow for it. The reality of wieght and movement restrictions imposed by heavy armor has been waved off more often then not.

Actually well-made plate armor weighed less then our current modern infantry soldier gear, which, if you recall, women do wear. It was also better distributed. People in plate armor had to be able to duck, roll, jog, and fight for lengthy amounts of time.

I like my gi better .