12 réponses à ce sujet

[sinosleep]

I posted this in the vanguard sticky cause that's where the debate started but really I think this is good for general info so I may as well post it here in it's own thread for all to see.

Basically the whole thing started up based on a debate about what weapon to take on the collector ship and whether or not the mattock would be redundant on certain classes. I mentioned that while it may kinda be redundant, I felt that it takes down armor at a faster rate than the pistol and would save you money and research materiels on upgrades you wouldn't have to get since pistol replacement is essentially what I use it for. This is helped by the fact that I tend to choose missions based entirely on upgrade priority so on my playthroughs I tend to have stuff like 4/5 AR and Shotgun upgrades but 1/5 pistol upgrades. Any way, a direct comparison was called for so here it is.

Here's the vid



Here are the numbers

4/5 research upgrades for both

Carnifex 11.8 seconds

Mattock 11.297 seconds

take into account I missed wide right twice on the second round of mattock shots.

It's a small difference, but if it allows me to play through the game with only having to use 2 weapons instead of 3 or 4 then it's worth it IMO.

Modifié par sinosleep, 05 septembre 2010 - 02:35 .

[sinosleep]

I've tried out the widow/mattock build (admittedly only for a couple of levels) and while it IS a very powerful build I still prefer the revenant if for nothing else feeling like Rambo. Haven't done any damage testing but I'd wager the mattock might beat it out. Doesn't matter to me though, for me soldiers are all abut turning people into piles of a goo with a fully automatic weapon and inferno ammo. Fire, blood, guts, and high rpms suit my soldiers just fine.

Modifié par sinosleep, 05 septembre 2010 - 03:31 .

[OniGanon]

You did have AP Pistol and AR Penetration right?

[sinosleep]

OniGanon wrote...

You did have AP Pistol and AR Penetration right?

You get those at 2 and 3 research upgrades respectively, I have 4 out 5. So yeah, I have all applicable majr upgrades for both weapons.

[OniGanon]

So the Critical upgrade as well. Well, I gotta say the Mattock performed better there than I was expecting.



But what this video really says to me is that one should use the pistol against armour to conserve AR ammo.

[sinosleep]

OniGanon wrote...

So the Critical upgrade as well. Well, I gotta say the Mattock performed better there than I was expecting.

But what this video really says to me is that one should use the pistol against armour to conserve AR ammo.

It all depends on what you pick up the mattock for in the first place. I never use it as a primary weapon, so conserving ammo for it is usually the last thing on my mind. On adepts, engineers, and caster sentinels the locust is my main, on vanguards and assault sentinels shotguns are my main and my soldiers don't bother with the mattock at all. On the collector ship I tend to choose the sniper or assault rifles for the express purpose of having strong anti-armor while not levling my pistols. So if you don't feel like spreading out your reserach and instead choose to focus on your main weapons then you'll have higher level weapons quicker.

Everyone is going to play their way at the end of the day though.

Modifié par sinosleep, 05 septembre 2010 - 05:10 .

[RGFrog]

Hmm... your video shows two things, sinosleep. Both weapons required two reloads and nearly 3 full clips each.

Yes, time wise, it wold seem a slight advantage toward the Mattok. But play wise, they are both equal IMO.

Neither gets the job done with any significant speed and begs a better question: what single weapon is best for stripping armor quickly? What about the Rev. or the Widow or even the Viper?

Are any of them as good or better than say Reave, Warp, or Incenerate?

What is the Ultimate single use or combo for speed stripping Armor?

[sinosleep]

I haven't done any thorough testing of it but in my experience the powers are better for mass stripping standard mobs of armor than for stripping big guys like YMIR mech armor. I may as well test it though. If you use it as a reload animation cut off I could see warp being extremely handy, but 1 for 1 I don't think even sentinel warp with max CD will take down the armor quicker than the guns will.

[Tony Gunslinger]

Last nite I played around with the crates mission with my sentinel and used Warp + Warp Ammo a few times, both with the Mattock and with the Carniflex.

With Heavy Warp + Mattock combo, the best I can do in stripping the YMIR's armor is to a sliver of yellow bar in one volley, maybe 1/8. On average, I can take it down to 1/3 consistently. I also recieved more damage.

With Heavy Warp + Carniflex, the best I can do is 1/4 in one attempt. However, each damage ranges a lot for each volleys, so the "average" isn't really a reliable measurement here.

What I'm sure of is that both weapons can easily strip at least half of YMIR's armor in one volley in conjunction with Heavy Warp + Warp Ammo, so in the end you'll kill off the YMIR in about the same amount of time.

I think what differs between the two are: 1) Mattock's ammo capacity and fire rate makes it easier and more frequent to time Heavy Warp's contact with target to deal the Warp Ammo's 2x damage. 2) Carniflex is harder to use in conjunction with Heavy Warp because of its slow fire rate. However when it does hit, that particular bullet's damage is greater, and heavy pistol's random critical damage makes up for some of its shortcomings, but also makes its damage range fluctuate a lot more. 3) Because I spend more time out of cover with the Mattock, Tech Armor explosion occurs more often, which adds to the end damage for each volley. If you disregard Tech Armor, then both are pretty close, and the Mattock dealing more consistent damage. And obviously, using the Carniflex means you'll get hit less. In the end, i think it comes down to specific situations; if time isn't an issue, Carniflex is the safer choice. If you are under pressure and need to take out the YMIR in a hurry, the Mattock can deal more consistent damage, but you'll have to take a few hits in return... that's my take on it anyways.

[Mr_Raider]

I thought pistol critical damage was for headshots only?

[Tony Gunslinger]

AFAIK the Heavy Pistol Critical upgrade says it deals 2x damage "sometimes", which I take it as basically meaning random. In sinsleep's video, you can see how the yellow bar drops significantly between the 1st volley and the 2nd (a lot more faster), and those aren't headshots.

[sinosleep]

I went out of my way not to headshot. Far more likely to wind up with random misses when trying to rapid fire if I'm going for headshots. For the sake of cutting down on variables I thought it would be better to just stick to the body.