1473 réponses à ce sujet

[Knight of Dane]

I would like to say yes, but i don't think so.

Origins as a example, nothing we did in that game truly mattered in DA:2, and since DA:2 is very linear i doubt they would incluse one of the few differences in the game.

I think it depends on DA:3.
If it's a continuation of Hawke's story i would think the sibling staying would be great, it would be great for a open spot or two for surviving sibling/romance if this is the case.
If there's a new protagonist i highly doubt it, but i would hope so, that'll give me the chance to romance Bethany!
Let's make her a bi choise while we're at it!

[Quething]

Hey Beth fans. A question for you all! What kind of magic do you think Bethany is inclined toward? What is she worst at?

There seems to be a really strong fanon in fic fandom, at least, that she's not a particularly good healer. This is totally weird to me, because 60% of my combat use of her is Heroic Aura and Haste. But then again fic fandom is obsessive about Anders so maybe they're just trying to make him more special as the Only Healer?

Game-wise she seems most inclined toward the Elemental tree; she starts with Fireball and her combat barks are stuff like "fire and ice, obey me!", but that also seems kind of weird to me because the one tree she can't learn is Primal, and Primal and Elemental are actually the same thing in the same school of magic, so how can a mage be strong in one and not the other?

And then as of 1.03, she can learn Force Mage stuff in the Tower or with the Wardens, and that school always seems most related to Arcane, to me (Crushing Prison and Mind Blast are exactly the kind of thing you'd expect from a Force Mage). So I don't know! What do you guys think?

Modifié par Quething, 12 août 2011 - 09:35 .

[TobiTobsen]

I always saw Bethany as an Elemental Mage. Her combat cries support that. Besides that I always use her as a healer as long as she is available because I can't stand Anders

I don't see why she couldn't be good at the elemental spells and suck at the primal ones. When I devote all my time to learn how to smite foes with ice and fire I won't be good in shocking them with lightning.

I like to think that the elemental spells probably behave different than the primal ones. Just remember the apprentice who practiced fire magic in DAO. He had one hell of a problem with controlling the fire and not letting it spread. So when you practice that all the time you have no time to practice how to throw a lightning bolt in the right direction without hitting yourself or others. At least thats what I think.

That and the whole engine thing. Maybe she would be to powerful otherwise? Just like Merrill would be the best mage if she could heal.

And the fact that she can learn Force Magic is pretty logical considering the fact that Kirkwall is the main hub of research in that magic school. Seven years in the circle must be pretty educational.

Modifié par TobiTobsen, 12 août 2011 - 09:56 .

[Knight of Dane]

I always saw her as a controller, movinf about the field herding enemies with the force mage and the glyphs then to finally blast them with a fireball and such.

Elemental, Arcane, Creation is those that i give her.

Having heal as a extra asset is nice too.
I don't need healers anyway.

[jamesp81]

I felt she was the best mage companion in terms of utility, by far.

Healing + Haste + Apocalyptic Firestorm = epic win.

[CrimsonZephyr]

Bethany is totally an elemental/force mage. With healing. She is as close as one gets to the red mage archetype.

Her only shortcoming is lacking the primal tree, which has rock armor.

[Quething]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Bethany is totally an elemental/force mage. With healing. She is as close as one gets to the red mage archetype.

Her only shortcoming is lacking the primal tree, which has rock armor.

Well, she has it in my game, but I don't know that that counts.

I guess I do kind of see her as a healer/buffer more than a nuker, despite her combat barks, just because her personality is so... kind and helpful and supportive. She's not the kind of person who wants to blow sh!t up for fun, she's the kind of person who wants to teach kids and make people's lives better. Force Mage does play pretty well into that, too, I mean those are control/support spells that you can even cast with Healing Aura up, not quite as overtly brutal as setting people on fire or turning them into little mercenarycicles for me to smash with my giant sword.

Not to say that she can't blow sh!t up pretty good too, of course. She's an exceptional mage, both in gameplay and lore. It just doesn't seem like it would be her primary focus.

Modifié par Quething, 12 août 2011 - 09:41 .

[CrimsonZephyr]

Quething wrote...

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Bethany is totally an elemental/force mage. With healing. She is as close as one gets to the red mage archetype.

Her only shortcoming is lacking the primal tree, which has rock armor.

Well, she has it in my game, but I don't know that that counts.

I guess I do kind of see her as a healer/buffer more than a nuker, despite her combat barks, just because her personality is so... kind and helpful and supportive. She's not the kind of person who wants to blow sh!t up for fun, she's the kind of person who wants to teach kids and make people's lives better. Force Mage does play pretty well into that, too, I mean those are control/support spells that you can even cast with Healing Aura up, not quite as overtly brutal as setting people on fire or turning them into little mercenarycicles for me to smash with my giant sword.

Not to say that she can't blow sh!t up pretty good too, of course. She's an exceptional mage, both in gameplay and lore. It just doesn't seem like it would be her primary focus.

I guess we can pin that down as "dark is not evil." Being able to blow **** up doesn't stop her from being the sweet baby sister?

[Huntress]

Sisters



Beth warden.

[Xilizhra]

Ah, Bethany...

Like many other people here, I'm heavily torn about the Circle/Warden thing. The plot makes marginally less sense with her in the Circle, because I can't do anything to Cullen over taking her, but I don't know if it fits thematically terribly well to have a Warden so close to the Hawke family, when Legacy portrays them as sort of an alien, mysterious organization. It's just tricky.

[Quething]

I prefer her in the Circle for a lot of reasons. "She's happier" would be the most obvious. I also like that she seems to grow up a bit more in the Circle; she spends her whole life up until the Expedition with a strong understanding of how much her family gave up to keep her free, but with no true understanding of why, and there's an element of childish ungratefulness to her "maybe I would have been happier there" attitude. That changes in the Circle, and in the endgame she seems to really demonstrate a sincerity in her pro-mage-freedom perspective that she didn't totally have in Act I. I like that she learns both what it means to truly belong, an experience everyone deserves, and just how lucky she's been, an understanding that can only improve her control over and contentment with her life. She doesn't seem to get either of those things in the Wardens.

Also, as far as plot coherency goes... it makes very little sense for main!Hawke to let Cullen take her, but it makes even less sense for main!Hawke to stick around Kirkwall for one minute past Leandra's death without Bethany in the Circle to hold her there, so.

[Xilizhra]

All of that is why I like the Circle more for her, but there are some plotting issues. I can accept that the reason Hawke doesn't stop Cullen is because Bethany begs her not to do anything, and that the family as a whole could suffer, but I find it difficult to reconcile bringing Circle-Bethany to Legacy until the postgame, and if you do it during the postgame, the framing device and mansion scene don't make sense (unless I'm missing something and it plays out differently). Plus, I see no reason why Hawke and Bethany would ever allow themselves to be separated again after that.

[Northern Sun]

Xilizhra wrote...

Ah, Bethany...

Like many other people here, I'm heavily torn about the Circle/Warden thing. The plot makes marginally less sense with her in the Circle, because I can't do anything to Cullen over taking her, but I don't know if it fits thematically terribly well to have a Warden so close to the Hawke family, when Legacy portrays them as sort of an alien, mysterious organization. It's just tricky.

I definitely prefer the Circle for her. In Legacy, Circle!Bethany says she's more or less content; Warden!Bethany outright states she doesn't care if she lives or dies anymore.

Secondly, after act III, Circle!Bethany has more options with her life. Warden!Bethany probably goes back to the Wardens, and even if she doesn't, the taint still leaves her incapable of a normal life. Circle!Bethany(provided you're not a complete monster) has the ability to do things like stay with Hawke, start a family with someone, or help the mage rebellion.

[Quething]

If you do Legacy in Act II, before things at the Circle get completely out-of-control, it's workable. Bethany is still reveling a bit in the experience of being able to be out - the significance of which after seventeen years closeted really can't be overstated - to be surrounded by people who share something with her that very few people in her life have, and to teach (something which is clearly pretty powerful for her).

On the other side of the coin, we know she's an 'exemplary' mage who doesn't give the templars any excuse to hassle her. And as a trained and tested former apostate who's killed her share of truly terrifying things (templars included), she probably projects a level of confidence and strength that makes her less appealing to predators like Kerras and Alrik; plus there's Hawke's relationship with Cullen, which may carry over to a certain amount of implied protection from a lower-ranking templar's perspective.

So, I can see her wanting to go back at that point. The good stuff hasn't lost its shine yet, the bad stuff isn't that bad for her, and of course she's still got that hangup about wanting Hawke to be able to live Leandra's dream. Plus, I like to imagine she's using her influence to protect other mages as best she can (possibly even tentatively involving herself in the Mage Underground), and doesn't want to abandon that responsibility.

Now, that doesn't necessarily explain why a Hawke on the more paternalistic end of the spectrum doesn't knock her out cold and book them on the next boat to Rivain regardless...

Modifié par Quething, 16 août 2011 - 04:35 .

[Xilizhra]

Then it looks like I'll need to do Legacy postgame and handwave all the mansion stuff. Oh well, it shouldn't be that painful.

[bleetman]

Quething wrote...

Now, that doesn't necessarily explain why a Hawke on the more paternalistic end of the spectrum doesn't knock her out cold and book them on the next boat to Rivain regardless...

Presumably, shielding an unknown apostate from the Templars in a rural village or amidst a sea of refugees is easier than with a known Circle escapee. They'd have a phylactery to track her with for starters, meaning she'd be on the run her entire life. I can sort of see why Hawke wouldn't be all that eager to forcibly burden her with that.

[Xilizhra]

So, what do people think would motivate Bethany to leave Hawke's side after the game was over and she was in the Circle?

[Quething]

bleetman wrote...

Presumably, shielding an unknown apostate from the Templars in a rural village or amidst a sea of refugees is easier than with a known Circle escapee. They'd have a phylactery to track her with for starters, meaning she'd be on the run her entire life. I can sort of see why Hawke wouldn't be all that eager to forcibly burden her with that.

There's always Tevinter. 

Actually I wonder about jurisdiction issues with that kind of thing. Are there any templars in the Gallows with a bug as far up their ass about Bethany as Rylock had about Anders? She would have followed him just about anywhere, but it had gotten personal for her. I don't know if the average templar would follow the average mage across national borders. Even crazy Kirkwall templars can be convinced to let the Dalish harbor apostates in their own back yards, it seems like there's a definite effort/return equation in play. Leaving the Free Marches might be enough to make them not worth the Gallows' while, particularly if they go back to an Alistair-led Ferelden. (An Amell Warden in particular would be prohibitive; I'd like to see even Meredith herself try to stop Bethany from settling down in Amaranthine.)

Xilizhra wrote...

So, what do people think would motivate Bethany to leave Hawke's side after the game was over and she was in the Circle?

If the game's over, she's not in the Circle. It was either annulled or scattered. If you play Legacy postgame, it's considered a flashback to some point in Act III, so the question is why would she go back then.

In which case, the only thing that could come close to justifying it for me would be that she is, indeed, working with the Mage Underground, using her position of trust and authority in the Circle to help from the inside, and will thus no more leave the fight than Anders would. Hence, on a Circle!Beth playthrough, Legacy is an Act II quest for me, because I find that a little hard to buy given the canon we're given. (Interestingly, Warden!Beth makes a bit more sense in Act III, post-Finding Nathaniel.)

Modifié par Quething, 16 août 2011 - 05:15 .

[bleetman]

Somehow I have trouble seeing Bethany fitting in if she traveled to Tevinter, if the stories about that place hold any truth.

I suppose I shouldn't really worry, anyway. Given the, uh, mental dexterity of the Kirkwall Templars, they'd probably drop her phylactery or be fooled by a scarecrow dressed up in a Circle robe and left in Bethany's room.

Modifié par bleetman, 16 août 2011 - 05:24 .

[Huntress]

what future bethany has in thedas?
In a circle she will feel safe until another Meredith show up, in the warden until an archdemon show up.
How save is Thedas? not save at all, even less for a mage.
As a circle mage she will have to live by someone also rule, if she doens't get a tranquility brand, then she is a veggetable.
As a Warden she have to fight for every single soul in Thedas, she is dead if all goes bad, she can have a life if all is good in BOTH situations.
My Hawke can't send her to the circle, not after what happen in Kirkwall, not after Cullen, meredith and Orsino.

Modifié par Huntress, 16 août 2011 - 05:53 .

[jlb524]

What is the issue with playing Legacy through Act 3 with Circle!Bethany?

That it doesn't make sense for her to go back to the Circle given all the issues there?

I'm not sure I agree with that. She probably doesn't want Hawke to get in trouble.

[Xilizhra]

I suppose it could be said that Bethany is working with Orsino to keep the problem from getting any worse, and given her nature, would likely not want to abandon everyone she's befriended. I more meant in the epilogue, when Varric said that everyone had parted ways; I just don't see that really happening.

[TobiTobsen]

Xilizhra wrote...

I suppose it could be said that Bethany is working with Orsino to keep the problem from getting any worse, and given her nature, would likely not want to abandon everyone she's befriended. I more meant in the epilogue, when Varric said that everyone had parted ways; I just don't see that really happening.

Me neither. I can't think of a reason why Hawke would let her go again. I mentioned time and time again that I couldn't think of a reason why he let Cullen take her in the first place. Now, with a war and the Templars going rogue, it's even more dangerous for her as a mage.

[Xilizhra]

Maybe, since odds seem low of them directly appearing again, we can ignore it. Or maybe it was something that forced them apart unwillingly, like narrowly avoiding capture but having to split up to do so, and then one of them being caught on a ship leaving port or something.

[CrimsonZephyr]

Perhaps they split up with the expectation that they'd meet up again soon? Bethany goes on a ship to, say, Ferelden and starts organizing mages there, and Hawke (+ LI) leads the Templars and Seekers on a merry chase through western Thedas?

Modifié par CrimsonZephyr, 16 août 2011 - 11:23 .