1473 réponses à ce sujet

[jamesp81]

Knight of Dane wrote...

Many actually do, Sebastian and Fenris is also quite kind to her in this DLC.

Somewhat OT, but Fenris redeemed himself just a little bit in my eyes in this DLC.

I was cheering when he chewed out Tallis for foolishly throwing off one master only to give herself up to another.

[jlb524]

Knight of Dane wrote...

Many actually do, Sebastian and Fenris is also quite kind to her in this DLC.

I think every companion is kind to Bethany, for the most part.

They take all their frustrations out on Hawke, I suppose. 

[Knight of Dane]

Well, Anders is a ass to her if she goes to the circle.

[Xilizhra]

Knight of Dane wrote...

Well, Anders is a ass to her if she goes to the circle.

Not that she doesn't sound kinda stupid...

[Knight of Dane]

So it's okay to be an ass to someone who sounds stupid?

Modifié par Knight of Dane, 28 octobre 2011 - 09:47 .

[Xilizhra]

Let's say I can understand why Anders does it.

[Quething]

Honestly, main!Hawke would have yelled at her pretty meanly for the first time in her entire life after some of that pro-Circle stuff if she'd had the option, too. Unlike Anders, though, she'd have been doing it out of a combo of fear, frustration, and love, and not just... assy contempt.

Still, like I said before, it's very weird to hear Anders argue with one of the other companions and find myself agreeing with him. Most especially when it's Bethany he's haranguing.

@James: Doesn't seem overpowered offhand. (Actually given how strongly this game skews in favor of DPS over tanking, it's almost impossible for defensive skills to be overpowered). Part of my concept was actually a "Maker's Grace" sustain that would give the whole party +10% evasion. I'm actually thinking now that 15% would be more appropriate, because FRIGGING GHAST ARCHERS

Modifié par Quething, 28 octobre 2011 - 11:30 .

[Knight of Dane]

Understanding a persons motives and finding his a-holesness okay is two different things.

[Xilizhra]

Knight of Dane wrote...

Understanding a persons motives and finding his a-holesness okay is two different things.

I think he could express it better, but I also think he's right.

[Knight of Dane]

Anders is right about many things, but he's not really good at expressing himself without seeming negative.

Modifié par Knight of Dane, 28 octobre 2011 - 11:58 .

[Quething]

Xilizhra wrote...

I think he could express it better

Well, isn't that just the story of his life, right there.

I still want to know why they're ignoring her phylactery, though. It's a pretty big issue in terms of her presence in the Circle (and pretty much the sole thing keeping main!Hawke from scaling the Gallows walls and dragging her bodily out of there by Act III). Which Anders of all people ought to know - he once gave me a whole quest about dealing with his.

Actually that reminds me. I used to fanwank a bit that part of the reason main!Hawke accepted Bethany's choice to stay in the Circle was that Beth had sort of joined the back end of the Mage Underground, and was using her position as an "exemplary" well-behaved mage with a lot of freedoms and minimal oversight to help get other less-protected mages, like Ella, out of the Gallows. (Which main!Hawke hated for being bloody dangerous and was proud of her for in equal measure.)

I still want it to be true because it woud be great character growth and because it feels weird to think that Bethany is more actively pro-Circle than Templar!Carver (who actually risks his life protecting Hawke/Anders/Merrill), but I find I have a harder time believing it now.

[Knight of Dane]

Bethany and Carver are both conflicted persons. She outrigth says she doesn't know what to beleive when she's in the wardens, but as a circle mage she sees that the circle has a pupose, but that it is executed wrongly.

Carver is very much the same way as a templar, he recognizes its purpose and joins it, but doesn't necessarily agree with the harsh treatment of mages. If he did he'd turn Anders/Merrill and Hawke in, first thing.
I'm not sure where he stands as a warden, the way i see it he keeps his thought in "I hate the topic" instead but in a more tolerable way.

One of my big hopes is that a expansion or a sequel would have a open slot for Hawke's surviving sibling to becaome a possible companion, both if the protagonist is still Hawke or someone new.

[Xilizhra]

I do know that I have no tolerance for Carver actually participating in the Annulment if he's with the templars there...

[CrimsonZephyr]

Keep in mind that she willingly joined the Circle because it likely saved her mother and Hawke from a death sentence. In Kirkwall, those who shelter apostates hang. Might as well make the best of it while she's there. Anders is an ass because he's lecturing her on how to think. Bethany, last time I checked, went into an unpleasant place, found her niche in teaching apprentices, and tried to make the best of a bad situation, only to rebel when it was forced, while Anders bombed a church. He never really had the moral high ground to begin with. He never had to live with family who would be negatively impacted by his magic, so he really doesn't really have the right to harangue her for it.

Modifié par CrimsonZephyr, 29 octobre 2011 - 01:36 .

[PrinceLionheart]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Keep in mind that she willingly joined the Circle because it likely saved her mother and Hawke from a death sentence. In Kirkwall, those who shelter apostates hang. Might as well make the best of it while she's there. Anders is an ass because he's lecturing her on how to think. Bethany, last time I checked, went into an unpleasant place, found her niche in teaching apprentices, and tried to make the best of a bad situation, only to rebel when it was forced, while Anders bombed a church. He never really had the moral high ground to begin with. He never had to live with family who would be negatively impacted by his magic, so he really doesn't really have the right to harangue her for it.

That and for all the talk about the Chantry imposing there views on others, Anders is really no different. "Kill the Templar who's actually trying to protect the mages, because their freedom is worth more than his life."

I really despised Anders in this game.

[Quething]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Keep in mind that she willingly joined the Circle because it likely saved her mother and Hawke from a death sentence. In Kirkwall, those who shelter apostates hang. Might as well make the best of it while she's there. Anders is an ass because he's lecturing her on how to think. Bethany, last time I checked, went into an unpleasant place, found her niche in teaching apprentices, and tried to make the best of a bad situation, only to rebel when it was forced, while Anders bombed a church. He never really had the moral high ground to begin with. He never had to live with family who would be negatively impacted by his magic, so he really doesn't really have the right to harangue her for it.

I think for Anders (certianly for me) the issue is that she's trying to claim it's not a bad situation. She's trying to say that it's a good one, the right one.

I mean, it's reasonably likely that's perfectly bog-standard cognative dissonance in action; if she acknowledges it as a bad situation, if she wakes up every morning thinking to herself "I'm in a psychotic prison and any one of the wardens could choose to violate my body or steal my very soul at any time and there's not a damn thing I can do about it," and that it's her own choice that put her there, that's... not going to help her live with that choice, to say the least.

Now, that negative view could potentially drive her to positive action (my aforementioned concept of her working with the Mage Underground for instance), but equally, it could drive her to negative action (see also: Grace). So, if that's what she needs to believe in order to live with herself and her choices, I can understand that.

It's still bloody horrible to hear, though. And that's for me, someone who's actually fairly fluent in the vagaries of human psychology and psychological response to abusive environments. Someone like Anders, who knows only how he would respond to something, doesn't have that level of sympathy available to him; all he can see is someone actively invalidating his own experience. To him the Circle was a torment. For Bethany to tell him it isn't, to say that it was Right and Good, is to tell him he's a liar, he's making it up, his own suffering is invalid. He's actually pretty restrained, considering.

[Nyreen]

Why did they make our sister's boobs giant, and then act surprised when people complain they can't romance her?

[draken-heart]

hey all, i read in the Isabella thread that hawke is actually comfortable with his/her sexuality. wondering what lady Hawke would say when coming out to her family as a lesbian. what would bethany say about it?

perhaps this was already talked about. mainly looking for actual dialogue now.

Modifié par draken-heart, 02 décembre 2011 - 05:30 .

[Lintanis]

Celestina wrote...

Why did they make our sister's boobs giant, and then act surprised when people complain they can't romance her?

They didnt,  well only in the very begining during Varic's exaggeration section of the start , very normal size afterwards 

[jlb524]

draken-heart wrote...
hey all, i read in the Isabella thread that hawke is actually comfortable with his/her sexuality. wondering what lady Hawke would say when coming out to her family as a lesbian. what would bethany say about it?

perhaps this was already talked about. mainly looking for actual dialogue now.

The family (including Bethany) doesn't care, really.

Bethany comments positively on my Hawke's romance with Merrill.  My Hawke is female, of course.

[draken-heart]

^ i was thinking more along the lines of initial reaction, pre-game, so...

also i carver gets jealous if lady mage!hawke romances merrill.

perhaps i should rephrase... how would the family react if Lady Hawke was with a woman in lothering then just decided to come out about it like at dinner.

Modifié par draken-heart, 02 décembre 2011 - 09:04 .

[Quething]

That depends on how detailed Marian gets. I imagine Beth's response would include a lot of "I'm not listening, I'm not listening."

[Knight of Dane]

Or perhaps just giggle and blush, she seemed curious when confronting Isabela with her sexuality.

[draken-heart]

i would imagine some sense of shock, if only for the fact that Marian was hiding something

[Quething]

In other news, I've stopped waffling and come back around to the Circle path for Beth. Once again because of DLC. Legacy/MotA make the Circle path less appealing to me, sure, but they make the Warden path way less appealing too, so there you go. :/