1473 réponses à ce sujet

[Knight of Dane]

Well, choosing Warden/Circle for Bethany is really not a question of "The best" scenrio but rather "the lesser of two bad" scenarioes.

Modifié par Knight of Dane, 04 décembre 2011 - 12:31 .

[Quething]

Eh. You could argue that being in the Circle is good for her (I did, once upon a time) because it teaches her important life lessons and she returns to apostasy a wiser and more content person. You could also argue that being in the Wardens is good for her (as I've seen others do) because it keeps her permanently safe from the Circle and the fallout of Anders' tomfoolery... or that it's simply a better story, because it gives her character more depth and changes her "boring" relationship with Hawke.

For a long time I was strongly in the first camp, which made Circling Beth pretty much a no-brainer for me. Carting her around through two DLCs, though, had largely convinced me that my old argument was invalid and that her being in the Circle was actually a bad thing for her after all (perhaps ironically, largely because her dialog was meant to establish exactly the opposite). Thus it was once again a "which is the lesser of two evils" decision, and I was more willing to be swayed by some of the pro-Grey Warden arguments.

Having taken Grey Warden Beth through both DLC now, though, I have even stronger anti-Grey Warden arguments than before and the choice is easy again. Uglier than it was at first, since I no longer think either has any redeeming virtue at all, but easy, at least.

[Knight of Dane]

No doubt, but i always let it come down to what i think she is happier with and not what necessarily is better, having her in the circle where she at least seems at peace and near protective reach too, was always my choise.

[jlb524]

Which decision is better for Hawke to make, though: leaving Bethany in Kirkwall and risking her being taken to the Circle (or made tranquil/killed if the Templar isn't so nice) or taking Bethany to the Deep Roads and risking...whatever?

[Knight of Dane]

Being in the circle would still be better, you are certain waht to expect from it and can watch from a distance, a uncertain fate in the Grey Wardens would leave Hawke much more worried.

But it doesn't apply like that, it's not like *Hawke* chooses to send her to either place, if Bethany dies or becomes a warden in the deep roads Hawke simply never knew the alternative, and leaving her in Kirkwall is the same case, Hawke can only wonder.

[jlb524]

My only issue with that is Hawke (and Bethany) can't be sure Bethany would even make it to the Circle if she got caught. She's been an apostate for years. It's most likely the Templars would kill her or make her tranquil.

I'm playing DA2 now with my canon (who I finally decided should be a warrior) and I'm trying to think about what decision she will make. She's a bit arrogant so I can see her taking Bethany along with her into the Deep Roads thinking she's the only one that can protect her sister from...whatever (darkspawn, Templars)

[TobiTobsen]

jlb524 wrote...

My only issue with that is Hawke (and Bethany) can't be sure Bethany would even make it to the Circle if she got caught. She's been an apostate for years. It's most likely the Templars would kill her or make her tranquil.

I'm playing DA2 now with my canon (who I finally decided should be a warrior) and I'm trying to think about what decision she will make. She's a bit arrogant so I can see her taking Bethany along with her into the Deep Roads thinking she's the only one that can protect her sister from...whatever (darkspawn, Templars)

Without meta gaming, I think that taking Bethany with you into the Deep Roads is the more "logical" choice.

Varric already told you that the Templars are investigating rumors that something is "unusual" about Hawkes sister and you already got some glimpses of the stuff that is going on in the Kirkwall circle.

In my opinion it would be probably more "responsible" to take her with you into the Deep Roads where Hawke at least can try to protect her, instead of letting her alone for weeks in a city where the Templars are just one step away from proving that she is a mage, with only Gamlen and Leandra as "protection"

It would've been my choice in my first playthrough if I didn't made the mistake and spoiler myself about her fate. Damn you BSN! *shakes fist*

[Knight of Dane]

Let the word "Logical" go, it has no place in this discussion. "Hawke's morality" is more accurate and also better suited for a role playing game.

The decition of leaving or bringing Bethany all comes down to what you put in your Hawke, my first choice of my 'Hawke's' leaves Bethany because she has faith that Bethany can handle herself at least staying hidden for the duration of the trip, let's not forget that in hindsight the travel into the deep roads wouldn't had been lengthened so much if Bartrand hadn't turned on them, leaving the issue with her being caught entirely in the dark.
Hawke didn't expect for them to be down there for as long as they were, besides i had done quests about the same estimated length without her before, she wasn't caught in all the time Hawke spent traveling to Sheataux Haine and back again, why would she now? Cullens small talk about Bethany's rumored powers didn't attract his full attention then.

In my eyes leaving her hidden in Kirkwall to keep her from the creatures that killed your brother is just as responsible as bringing her along to keep her safe personally.

[jlb524]

It's not really a morality thing either.

It depends on Hawke's personality and how s/he rationalizes things. There are positives and negatives on both sides.

[Quething]

I think part of the problem is that DA2 undersells the darkspawn like its its job. They're the easiest badguys in the game to beat. Even untrained thugs on the street have more resistances and better attack scores. Even with Carver's death, it's hard for me to roleplay that Hawke is completely terrified of Beth being down with the darkspawn, because gameplay doesn't bear that out at all - but it should be totally reasonable, given game lore.

[TobiTobsen]

Quething wrote...

I think part of the problem is that DA2 undersells the darkspawn like its its job. They're the easiest badguys in the game to beat. Even untrained thugs on the street have more resistances and better attack scores. Even with Carver's death, it's hard for me to roleplay that Hawke is completely terrified of Beth being down with the darkspawn, because gameplay doesn't bear that out at all - but it should be totally reasonable, given game lore.

I think it's also the problem that nobody cared about the taint in the first game.
Without knowing that you sibling will get it, I always was like "Yea... so what? My DAO Crew fought the Darkspawn for a whole year without getting infected. What's the big deal?"

[Knight of Dane]

jlb524 wrote...

It's not really a morality thing either.

It depends on Hawke's personality and how s/he rationalizes things. There are positives and negatives on both sides.

[jlb524]

Quething wrote...
I think part of the problem is that DA2 undersells the darkspawn like its its job. They're the easiest badguys in the game to beat. Even untrained thugs on the street have more resistances and better attack scores. Even with Carver's death, it's hard for me to roleplay that Hawke is completely terrified of Beth being down with the darkspawn, because gameplay doesn't bear that out at all - but it should be totally reasonable, given game lore.

Considering Hawke can bring Bethany along to fight dragons and such in Act 1...yeah I agree.  It's a tough RP.

[Knight of Dane]

Correction: Hawke can bring Bethany to a mine where s/he has no idea what to expect.
Hawke no psychic!

Else, correct.

Modifié par Knight of Dane, 08 décembre 2011 - 05:55 .

[jlb524]

But after the fact, why would you fear a couple of puny darkspawn?

phsaw!

[Knight of Dane]

Hawke wouldn't. Would Bethany? Probably.

[Lintanis]

Always choose the Grey Wardens for Bethany, the costume looks better lol

[thats1evildude]

Darkspawn aren't the only dangerous creatures down in the Deep Roads. There are also deepstalkers, giant spiders, golems, ghosts, dragons and (as of DA2) rock wraiths.

Plus, cave-ins.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 04 janvier 2012 - 10:38 .

[RampantAndroid]

Lintanis wrote...

Always choose the Grey Wardens for Bethany, the costume looks better lol

My thinking was simply:

Take her to become a warden, and then she'll have 30 years to live, with nightmares every night, then she'll have to go to the deep roads to die.

or

Let her go to the circle, then the circle will be taken apart, hopefully the phylactories destroyed, Bethany goes free (of course, either siding with her, or not letting Meridith kill her required here) and her fate is left open for DA3.

At least in the tower she's nearer family. But why wouldn't hawke kill the templars taking her away in Act 1, then run with Bethany to somewhere else?

So little of DA2 made sense. Act 3: You've sided with the mages every chance you had? Well we kidnapped Bethany ANYWAY. Hah!

[RampantAndroid]

Fieryeel wrote...

She's certainly the more interesting character: Innocent, naive, friendly, well meaning....no agenda of her own. She just stays with her family. Not to say Isabela and Varric aren't amusing, but Isabela is hardly a great person.

[Riknas]

RampantAndroid wrote...

At least in the tower she's nearer family. But why wouldn't hawke kill the templars taking her away in Act 1, then run with Bethany to somewhere else?

So little of DA2 made sense. Act 3: You've sided with the mages every chance you had? Well we kidnapped Bethany ANYWAY. Hah!

Y'know, this question comes up enough that I feel like it should be cleared up (again).

Cullen says straight up that he was doing you a kindness by not killing or making your sister tranquil.  Let's think for a moment, Hawke actually tried to kill the Knight-Captain along with the templars at him, you can bet that every single templar (and possibly the city guard) would be after Hawke. 

Now, Hawke may be the Champion and all, but that doesn't mean he could fight every templar by himself.

Also, in regards to siding with the mages while having your sister kidnapped by the templar and mage rebels: Grace became a blood mage and still resents Hawke for the death of Decimus. Similarly, the last thing you did was hunt down mages for Meredith, which makes them think that you've finally signed on with the templars.

Hell, you actually have an option to essentially say, "I saved you, COME ON!"

Modifié par Riknas, 07 janvier 2012 - 10:35 .

[PrinceLionheart]

RampantAndroid wrote...

At least in the tower she's nearer family. But why wouldn't hawke kill the templars taking her away in Act 1, then run with Bethany to somewhere else?

Because of Gameplay and Story Segregation.

Hawke isn't a One (Wo)Man Army. By doing so, Hawke would put both Bethany and Leandra at risk by causing a scene. And I'm going to make an assumption that all the Templars at that point were aware of Bethany's presence. Kill a templar, and you're officially a target of the chantry/templars in every town you go to.

[RampantAndroid]

PrinceLionheart wrote...

RampantAndroid wrote...

At least in the tower she's nearer family. But why wouldn't hawke kill the templars taking her away in Act 1, then run with Bethany to somewhere else?

Because of Gameplay and Story Segregation.

Hawke isn't a One (Wo)Man Army. By doing so, Hawke would put both Bethany and Leandra at risk by causing a scene. And I'm going to make an assumption that all the Templars at that point were aware of Bethany's presence. Kill a templar, and you're officially a target of the chantry/templars in every town you go to.

/me seems to remember killing plenty of templars before the final fight. Often groups of them no less.

As for the explanation of the templars descending on Hawke...gee, let's see. Kill templays in home. Hide bodies. Leave. Bodies found after Hawke and family left. Huh.

[CrimsonZephyr]

RampantAndroid wrote...

PrinceLionheart wrote...

RampantAndroid wrote...

At least in the tower she's nearer family. But why wouldn't hawke kill the templars taking her away in Act 1, then run with Bethany to somewhere else?

Because of Gameplay and Story Segregation.

Hawke isn't a One (Wo)Man Army. By doing so, Hawke would put both Bethany and Leandra at risk by causing a scene. And I'm going to make an assumption that all the Templars at that point were aware of Bethany's presence. Kill a templar, and you're officially a target of the chantry/templars in every town you go to.

/me seems to remember killing plenty of templars before the final fight. Often groups of them no less.

As for the explanation of the templars descending on Hawke...gee, let's see. Kill templays in home. Hide bodies. Leave. Bodies found after Hawke and family left. Huh.

Why not just burn the bodies up on Sundermount. Blame it on the Dalish.

Merrill and her clan dies, Bethany's safe, the Templars get their jollies in, and everyone goes home happy. It's a win-win.

[RampantAndroid]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Why not just burn the bodies up on Sundermount. Blame it on the Dalish.

Merrill and her clan dies, Bethany's safe, the Templars get their jollies in, and everyone goes home happy. It's a win-win.

Cannot tell if serious.